If life is a dream...

[Awhislyle]

Alright, wasn't sure where to put this, so Im putting it here. I know alot of the people in this forum believe that the waking life as we know it is really just a dream. So I have to ask this question, if you just woke up and and were suddenly in a different reality, would you believe you were still dreaming or would you think you finally woke up? How many times would you have to wake up before you thought you were really awake?

[toshirozawa]

I often confuse my dreams with reality. They can somtimes be so vivid and emotional that in reality I will tell my friends something we did, and they will look at me strange, then realizing that we never actually did it, but I only dreamt it. It is very hard for me to decipher between reality and dreams. I am often on my computer, and all of a sudden feel like I am dreaming, but then in 30min realize it was real. For me, life is not a dream, but just a harse reality. I would personally rather live my life as a dream.

[Howie]

It certainly can be subjective. Existing only in the mind; possibly an illusion. Life is but a dream!

[dearly]

Originally posted by toshirozawa I often confuse my dreams with reality. *They can somtimes be so vivid and emotional that in reality I will tell my friends something we did, and they will look at me strange, then realizing that we never actually did it, but I only dreamt it. It is very hard for me to decipher between reality and dreams. *I am often on my computer, and all of a sudden feel like I am dreaming, but then in 30min realize it was real. *For me, life is not a dream, but just a harse reality. *I would personally rather live my life as a dream. This is a known condition--often unable to distinguish dreams from reality. Having very vivid dreams definitely does not help such sufferers. It's most common in children. I have done some studying on this. Do you think you give your dreams more mental priority over the events in your day? This could be a major cause. Do you consider dreams more important than waking life? Do you try to sleep as long as you can? I strongly suggest, if possible, to have a set sleeping schedule (7 to 8 hours), which is your "sleep time." You can still record your dreams in the morning if you want, but that's it--that's your "dream recording time." When you're writing down your dream, make sure you tell yourself this was a dream and did not actually happen. Don't think about your previous dreams anymore throughout the day. I'm just providing some logical advice. If you think you do have a problem, I would suggest visiting a physician about it. Hope this helps, D

[Peregrinus]

That's always been one of the most powerful and appealing aspects of LDing for me - the fact that they are (or at least mine are) in all ways physically indistinguishable from waking life except that the laws of physics can be willfully disregarded. Textures are the same, colors as vivid, smells as sharp, sounds as distinct. As far as I have been able to determine, there is no difference except that in dreams I can "think" a coke into my hand before opening a door onto any landscape imaginable, while in waking life that unfortunately just doesn't work. Reality is a bit "stricter" when awake. If waking reality were really just another personal dream, a layer in a life-long series of false awakenings, I'd be seriously disappointed. To think that everyone I've met and known is just a figment of my own imagination and that the fact that I can't materialize carbonated sugar drinks is simply a result of my own mental stubbornness would be a nasty let-down. If I were to awaken onto a completely different reality, I would probably think it a FA unless I were able to remember in detail the backstory of how I got there. If I did have complete memories, I'd have some serious issues and probably try to explore the new landscape and try to figure things out. If it seemed consistent and stable, and lasted for more than a couple of days (i.e. I went to sleep and woke up in the same place), I’d probably have to at least start to operate as if it were not a dream. But the doubt would always be there.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Peregrinus That's always been one of the most powerful and appealing aspects of LDing for me - the fact that they are (or at least mine are) in all ways physically indistinguishable from waking life except that the laws of physics can be willfully disregarded. *Textures are the same, colors as vivid, smells as sharp, sounds as distinct. *As far as I have been able to determine, there is no difference except that in dreams I can \"think\" a coke into my hand before opening a door onto any landscape imaginable, while in waking life that unfortunately just doesn't work. *Reality is a bit \"stricter\" when awake. *If waking reality were really just another personal dream, a layer in a life-long series of false awakenings, I'd be seriously disappointed. *To think that everyone I've met and known is just a figment of my own imagination and that the fact that I can't materialize carbonated sugar drinks is simply a result of my own mental stubbornness would be a nasty let-down. If I were to awaken onto a completely different reality, I would probably think it a FA unless I were able to remember in detail the backstory of how I got there. *If I did have complete memories, I'd have some serious issues and probably try to explore the new landscape and try to figure things out. *If it seemed consistent and stable, and lasted for more than a couple of days (i.e. I went to sleep and woke up in the same place), I’d probably have to at least start to operate as if it were not a dream. *But the doubt would always be there. You drink coke and not Pepsi? For someone as knowledgeable about the laws of physics as you, it must be fascinating for you to operate in a realm without those rules. I wonder what predetermined things could you theoretically test against the laws we live by, while you are in a state of one which you do not have any? Our brains believe what it sees unless we tell it otherwise. Then you have to question that source. And so on.

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by Howetzer You drink coke and not Pepsi? * Until I was well into high school, I drank a can of Coke for breakfast And it was gooooood! Pepsi is just too sweet and doesn't have that acidic zing that catches in the back of your throat before going down your esophagus to have its go at rotting your stomach. For someone as knowledgeable about the laws of physics as you, it must be fascinating for you to operate in a realm without those rules.[/b] I'm not sure about fascinating. I don't think about physics all of the time, ya know, and I've had an active dreamlife since long before I read my first Stephen Hawking book. It's certainly more fun and exciting, although it feels just as natural. I'd hesitate to say I prefer it because the limitations of waking life create challenges, with the circumnavigation or bypassing of those limitations being perhaps the most satisfying (loopholes - it's all about the loopholes). If everything were as easy to achieve in waking life as it is in dreams, life would quickly lose its luster. What fun would risk-taking be if there were no risks? You could always just say, \"Oh hey! This is a dream. Let's start over,\" every time you meet w/ setbacks or failure. And materializing Cokes would soon become an act of laziness rather than one of novelty. It's like Silicon Valley weather - it's so perfect all the time that within a few months, you cease to appreciate it. You need the contrast between waking and dreaming to understand and appreciate both. But I always do feel a pang of disappointment upon awakening from an LD or even a really good non-lucid dream. I think it's from the revocation of absolute freedom. I wonder what predetermined things could you theoretically test against the laws we live by, while you are in a state of one which you do not have any?[/b] What do you mean? Our brains believe what it sees unless we tell it otherwise.[/b] And even then it'll usually put up a fight. "No, no, officer! The light really was green! It just, er, looked red to you and, um, everyone else. They should probably have that looked at, you know - maybe see a professional to help open up some good ol' brain-to-wishful-thinking communications."

[Howie]

Originally posted by Peregrinus And even then it'll usually put up a fight. *\"No, no, officer! *The light really was green! *It just, er, looked red to you and, um, everyone else. *They should probably have that looked at, you know - maybe see a professional to help open up some good ol' brain-to-wishful-thinking communications.\" True. Very True. The mind is not easily convinced. And neither are state troopers. Originally posted by I I wonder what predetermined things could you theoretically test against the laws we live by, while you are in a state of one which you do not have any? Lets say that you have been pondering over a theory that test the basic principles of the regular laws of physics. Or even just pondering over a difficult question in such a manner. I wonder, if given the opportunity, that your mind could find solutions in the dream realm that it could not otherwise find outside the subconscious.

[Peregrinus]

[quote]Lets say that you have been pondering over a theory that test the basic principles of the regular laws of physics. Or even just pondering over a difficult question in such a manner. I wonder, if given the opportunity, that your mind could find solutions in the dream realm that it could not otherwise find outside the subconscious. If you were stuck on some sort of problem, having trouble thinking around the corner, so to speak, the increased creativity often found in dreams might help you to see a new, unorthodox solution. However, you'd have to be suspicious of the answer found in a dream, because it might be complete rubbish - just the mind creating what it wants without regard to conforming to the physical laws of the waking world. If I were in a situation like that, I'd probably give it a shot, though. Back in high school, I had a lucid in which I conquered and danced atop a floating, city-block-sized sheet of calculus homework. Unfortunately, I was too busy frolicking to actually solve any of the problems on the sheet

[Howie]

Originally posted by Peregrinus If you were stuck on some sort of problem, having trouble thinking around the corner, so to speak, the increased creativity often found in dreams might help you to see a new, unorthodox solution. *However, you'd have to be suspicious of the answer found in a dream, because it might be complete rubbish - just the mind creating what it wants without regard to conforming to the physical laws of the waking world. *If I were in a situation like that, I'd probably give it a shot, though. * Back in high school, I had a lucid in which I conquered and danced atop a floating, city-block-sized sheet of calculus homework. *Unfortunately, I was too busy frolicking to actually solve any of the problems on the sheet * You would have to maintain a real zeal for your quest in addition to having very stable lucidity. I have tried breaking barriers in chess three times in my lucids. I get nowhere. I might as well been playing checkers. I guess my point, which you seemingly understand, is getting the subconscious and it's obscured view of a stable situation. Maybe this would apply to the quantum physics more so.?

[irishcream]

Originally posted by Awhislyle Alright, wasn't sure where to put this, so Im putting it here. I know alot of the people in this forum believe that the waking life as we know it is really just a dream. So I have to ask this question, if you just woke up and and were suddenly in a different reality, would you believe you were still dreaming or would you think you finally woke up? How many times would you have to wake up before you thought you were really awake? This kinda reminded me of when i first watched 'Vanilla Sky' i kept trying to work out when he was actually awake, and when he was dreaming, and i never could...it's rather fascinating, but i'm not about to try leaping out of my bedroom window...

[EmmaH]

Since starting spontaneous lucid dreams a few months ago, it seems to me one of the most interesting aspects of it all - once you've got over the excitement of being able to do things you couldn't remotely do in your waking life - is the philosophical implications. I find the idea that you can be aware that you are actually asleep quite fascinating. It has such a deja-vu, hall-of-mirrors feel to it. For me at least, it begs the question why? Why do we lucid dream? How can it happen? Is it just some quirk of brain chemistry, or could it be telling us something important about our waking life? I can't pretend to have any answers, but it has been immensely stimulating. Any popular theories?

[Howie]

Originally posted by EmmaH Since starting spontaneous lucid dreams a few months ago, it seems to me one of the most interesting aspects of it all - once you've got over the excitement of being able to do things you couldn't remotely do in your waking life - is the philosophical implications. I find the idea that you can be aware that you are actually asleep quite fascinating. It has such a deja-vu, hall-of-mirrors feel to it. For me at least, it begs the question why? Why do we lucid dream? How can it happen? Is it just some quirk of brain chemistry, or could it be telling us something important about our waking life? I can't pretend to have any answers, but it has been immensely stimulating. Any popular theories? EmmaH...... First of welcome You bring up a good point. So many people are enthrawled about acting upon lucid dreaming that they don\'t stop and ask why. Your train of thinking is very similar to mine it seems. Perhaps lucid dreaming is an act that has always been there but like many of our senses we have lost it along the way somewhere. It does not seem to hold any bad side effects with it.. I really do not know either. Good Question. I think the general concept is not that far out there. It is the simple fact that you consciously become aware you are dreaming. Given the many states of consciousness humans can reach this is no real surprise IMO.

[Gwendolyn]

Well, I guess that I would kind of like (for now at least) to stay awake, but if I awoke to a different reality one day, I would probably think I were in an eternal dream. I guess it might be disheartening, since I am really happy with my life right now...But, I would like to experience what it would be like to live a few weeks in a dream, or something. If I didn't have a fiance, I would be all for waking up in a different reality, but as it is, I would miss him.

[EmmaH]

I'm reminded of the time I had gas anaesthesia at the dentist as a child, to have a couple of teeth extracted. I awoke from what had seemed such a long and convincing dream that I was really distressed - I felt as if I had been wrenched from my real life and I longed to get back there. Of course the feeling passed off in a few minutes, aided by the distraction of having lots of blood pouring out of my mouth... But I remember the experience clearly and something about lucid dreaming feels the same. I think once you have had a lucid dream, you are haunted by the suggestion that what we are aware of as reality - ie. everyday waking life - may not be anything of the sort. If we can be aware within a dream, then I think it begs the question of whether our 'everyday' awareness is any more real. It seems to be a recurring theme in modern culture, from Paul Gallico's "Jenny" to films like "The Matrix" and "Vanilla Sky". Perhaps we're undergoing a cultural awakening, cracking open the doors of perception a little. Oh, and thanks for the welcome, H!

[Ev]

Originally posted by EmmaH I think once you have had a lucid dream, you are haunted by the suggestion that what we are aware of as reality *- ie. everyday waking life - may not be anything of the sort. If we can be aware within a dream, then I think it begs the question of whether our 'everyday' awareness is any more real. It seems to *be a recurring theme in modern culture, from Paul Gallico's "Jenny" to films like "The Matrix" and "Vanilla Sky". Perhaps we're undergoing a cultural awakening, cracking open the doors of perception a little. * Oh, and thanks for the welcome, H! I'll second that. Dreams and reality are very much alike and once you have experienced a *full scale* lucid dream it becomes apparent that real life may be a dream and there's no good way to check if it is not. As for the OP's question - if I wake up in a stable dream that seems to be stable and last for a long time I will just live in it, except that my outlook on that life would be entirely different.

[fluid phil]

Originally posted by Awhislyle Alright, wasn't sure where to put this, so Im putting it here. I know alot of the people in this forum believe that the waking life as we know it is really just a dream. So I have to ask this question, if you just woke up and and were suddenly in a different reality, would you believe you were still dreaming or would you think you finally woke up? How many times would you have to wake up before you thought you were really awake? My take on this question is that no matter how many times you 'wake up' and confront a different reality, you are still dealing in terms of perception. The question becomes - [b]How do we know that what we are seeing or smelling or feeling or just intuitively knowing (whether in a dream or daydreaming or on a drug trip or in everyday reality) is actually objective reality ie how things actually are, the underlying 'true' reality? While the experience of lucid dreams is fantastic, the most important feature of having them IMO is the implications they have for how we perceive everyday 'normal' reality. Most people seem to take the incredible act of dreaming (not just lucid) for granted. They wake up after a particularly memorable dream that seemed so real and intense and emotional, look around their room and the 'normal' world and then lightly dismiss it as 'just a dream'. Just a dream? Your mind/brain/consciousness created this incredibly textured, 3d world, full of fasincating places and figures, that you were totally embedded in. Your pysche went along happily with this creation and was completely involved in it. You may have felt terrifying fear, or love, or amazement, or bewilderment as you flowed along with different events that occured to you just like the way you seem to flow along with life. [i][size=18]~~Just a dream?~~ It doesn't seem to sink in for people what a powerful creator of reality is yr mind/brain. Not only that but the ONLY way to percieve any reality (including everyday reality) is to have it generated by this incredible reality-generating machine inside you. In the case of dreams, memories are used to generate the reality you experience (although sometimes some external noise like a banging door is incorporated into yr dream world). But our waking life is created by the same virtual-reality to compile it. But we are still CREATING this reality. Colour doesn't exist, only different wave lengths of light captured by our eyeballs, sent via nerve connections to the neurons in our brain, where it is converted by our virtual-reality creating minds into what we 'see' as blue or green. Likewise sound doesn't exist, or shape, or form or depth or time. Einstein showed that space and time don't exist in their own right but but are part of one space-time continuum that can be divided up into different ways of viewing, each equally valid depending on the state of viewer. [i][size=18]~~Just a dream?~~ So if we can' t directly percieve reality, what is the 'true' reality? What underlies all things? Can we ever know it? Or are we trapped in this virtual-reality world, unable to see the truth of what is behind all things? The first step is too realise that what we are looking at is just as 'created' as that strange, pulsating, fluid world we inhabit at night when we close our eyes. From such a position comes a sense of calmness, of stillness, of dettachment and of creativity. We now know the world to be 'just a dream' . And like our night-dreams, this then lets us become lucid. And we all know what is possible once we become lucid.