Brain-fission & Identity

[O'nus]

Hello, I was inspired by another thread to propose this man's philosophical problem. Consider the following problems of identity propounded by Derek Parfit: First Scenario: Take my brain and place it into another body, say a male brain to a female body. When I come to - I am still me, right? I am just now in a new body. Second Scenario: Remove half of my brain (or just beat me till half or more is damaged beyond use). Am I still me? Even though I do not act or function as I once did, I am still me, right? Third Scenario: Remove half of my brain again - and now place it into a different, brainless, body. I am still me but in a new body now, right? Now, most importantly, the Fourth Scenario: If you remove of my brain and half of the brain of another person, then switch two of the halves brains in the bodies - what happens to me?! In case that was badly worded, take half of my brain and put it into the body of another person then take that persons half brain and put it into my original body. Who is me now? Both bodies should have recollection being me, right? So which one is me? The one who claims to be me first..? ~

[Zera]

From a medical standpoint, you couldn't "mix" two brains together. It hasn't been done. So what's the point? Well, if it COULD be done, then I suppose "ME" would be in both the individuals involved.

[Ne-yo]

I think either way you will always be you. In reference to mixing the two half brains, I cannot even begin to comprehend the effects of that scenario, however I think the brain would eventually assimilate itself to associating with it's new body. I think the body play a huge effect on our personalities and the way we do certain things in life or how we act in life I should say. For instance if you swapped out the brain from someone from a very physically fit person to an obese person then the personality would be altered and perhaps the individual the ME: would tend to eat more or have more of an appetite than from the previous body, or if the brain went to a more muscular person maybe the personality effects would be more aggressive in life. Either way the body would play a significant role in altering the way the ME: would eventually think depending on the body type. If it were swapped out from male to female body I believe the brain would associate to the female body and even though you are you, I think you would posses more feminine tendencies which would eventually turn your way of think and everything else to more of a female. That's just my Theory on it. Excellent Topic by the way O'nus

[Keeper]

your brain is just a conduat. A very important and delecate conduit, but a conduit the same. When your brain is damaged the conduit is damaged to, but the "You" thet is conected to your brain is not effected. So, you are always you, no matter what happens to your brain.

[Patrick]

I see what you mean, although it could be worded better. I think the general idea is the basic maleability of our own identities. An example is when people suffer brain injuries. In 19th century america, a train track worker got a metal rod stuck through his head from an explosion. It was succesfully removed, but he was never the same again... formerly an ingoing, well-mannered man, he was now outgoing, lost all sexual inhibitions, and was jailed for rape. Surgeons studied him and found that part of his frontal lobe dedicated to social inhibitions had been damaged in the accident. They repaired it and he returned to his normal self. In my opinion, our personalities can be changed by damaging or changing our brains. When it comes to halving brains and swapping them, even though that's probably never going to happen, you would be destroying two people and creating two totally new ones.

[Neruo]

The intresting fact that you can have half-a-brain that still finctions properly is really intresting in regard to the soul-issue. I made a topic about that some time back. Basicly you question is about the same, but instead of soul it is 'the individual'. What is the individual? I personally say that the induvidual is more relative then you think. There are no objective rules that say what is and what isn't an individual. You could split a brain in 10 pieces, and keep them all alive and stimulate them, they proably would show some brain activity. Do you have 10 people/souls/individuals? Allso, the hart. The hart can function even when disconneced from any other part of the body, as long as it has fresh blood. If you would totally remove one's brain, but keep it's lungs working, just keep the carcass alive. What then? What else do you have but a machine? There is no processing of the data, just reactions that occur becouse of actions of the body. Point is: The term 'individual' is as vague as the term soul. It isn't black and white, it's all grey area of human-temonology.

[Amethyst Star]

The heart can function on its own? I've never heard of a study on that. The heart responds to signals sent by the brain. It's an autonomic function, just like breathing, and while we may exert some control over it, (barring extraordinary circumstances) ultimately it will beat again on its own. In the same way, you can't just stop breathing unless there is a serious medical condition. The question is this: does brain = self? If it does, then it would seem logical that personalities and actions and abilities could be "split."

[O'nus]

Derek Parfit was a very knowledgable guy - he knew that it was very unlikely to be able to fuse two lesioned brains and put them together. However, it is the philosophical question that, if we combine the half memories of ourselves with another person, who is 'me'? The question involves no biological arguments.. it is primarily what is "me" or "you"? John Locke proposed that your self identity is the entire composition of your memories of what you did and think - as far back into your youth as possible. You may even mistake someone else's actions as your past, but you could still recognize that as your memory. In summary, your self identity is the conglomeration of all your episodic memories. What do you think? (There is so much more to say.. but I am really interested in the responses) ~

[AirRick101]

I guess it boggles the mind to try to comprehend this, really makes me re-examine the tendency to identify with any one part of my body. Hey, O'nus, remember the MGS games? Liquid Snake claims to live on through one of his arms which is attached to Ocelot's stump. Wouldn't it be just as plausible to believe his other arm and his 2 legs to do the same thing and live on as himself in 4 different places? Gosh, his original head is even more believable to be capable to take control over a decapitated corpse as well. And his torso might as well connect to 4 strange limbs and a head. (but if that was the case, there was no need to live on through one arm, and probably could have lived if his original body went into some intense repair) But anyway, my thought about this dilemma is that the combination of all the biological components that make our body is what makes us who we are. Removal of something such as half a brain would distort the personality, therefore not being the same person one was once before. But if a half brain transplant would be possible, I still couldn't imagine how either body would perceive itself after the procedure...

[xcrissxcrossx]

accually not, because only one of the parts of the brain would be the part that remembers things. so me would be the one that has the part of the brian that remembers.

[Nanten]

Hey, O'nus, remember the MGS games? Liquid Snake claims to live on through one of his arms which is attached to Ocelot's stump. Wouldn't it be just as plausible to believe his other arm and his 2 legs to do the same thing and live on as himself in 4 different places? Gosh, his original head is even more believable to be capable to take control over a decapitated corpse as well. And his torso might as well connect to 4 strange limbs and a head. (but if that was the case, there was no need to live on through one arm, and probably could have lived if his original body went into some intense repair)[/b] Wouldn't that be a great twist for MGS4, having four separate Liquids show up? "SNAKE! How did you like my sunglasses?"