America

[Bosco]

This topic is for the disscussion of the philosophy of why America is so fucked up (and yes im american so im not being prejuduce ) First pilgrams : No taxes! hell yea. Indians? who cares this is our land now! Becoming more sadistic as time grows? Why not! Only caring about material things and popularity, shit sign me up!

[O'nus]

I would like to only reply with one of my favorite quotes from Plato: "However great the ills of man become, you but add to them when you give into despair." ~

[Neruo]

There is still ALOT about america in 'extended discussion'. America is just using his power horribly wrong. America is a bad example to the world. It's not a democracy and its civilians are totally trapped in a web of lies.

[TheNocturnalGent]

There is still ALOT about america in 'extended discussion'. America is just using his power horribly wrong. America is a bad example to the world. It's not a democracy and its civilians are totally trapped in a web of lies. [/b] the worst part of the fact that its a web of lies is that as much as you struggle you're only getting more stuck to it. A great percentage of the people in america are not happy with how our country is presenting itself, but thats what happens when the guy who didnt even win the election becomes president. (btw i didnt vote for either of the major political parties)

[Casualtie]

unfortunately, america has become a hegemony over the rest of the world. we want to have control over everyone so there are no threats to us. in return we get hatred from the majority of the world. oh and btw, that show: my super sweet-sixteen, doesn't help people get a good idea of how americans are like. i believe we are the wealthiest nation on earth (and even if we aren't, we are defenately up there) and it seems like we don't do much good with it. we spend so much money on millitary (a ridiculous amount). we could end the whole darfur genocide thing in such a short amout of time and we aren't doing anything.

[TheNocturnalGent]

oh and btw, that show: my super sweet-sixteen, doesn't help people get a good idea of how americans are like.. [/b] unforunatly alot of that show was filmed within 20 miles of me. And i am not one of these people, beleive me. My cars in the shop, im paying for it, mommy and daddy dont buy me shit, thatsd nto to say i know alot of people who have such a luxury. My best freind dan got a 2003 lincoln LSE fully loaded because he wwas sick of his 2001 LS with everyhting anyone could ever need.

[Casualtie]

a kid that goes to my school got a porsche for christmas when he didn't even have his drivers license yet. and his brother got two (im not sure what kind of car). anyway, its not like his parents don't help the school or anything. they donate a ton of money to our school. im just trying to give a personal example of how much unnecessary money people in this country have while there are people dying every second because they don't have enough money to buy enough food for themselves.

[sargentpepper882]

ok first of all, lets get things straight. I love america. I woudl not rather live anywhere else in teh world except for maybe canada and the UK. We have great freedoms in America that people seldom enjoy in the rest of the world. I agree that much of America's upper class is horribly ignorant about the rest of the world, but that does not make them evil. No, i am not a bush fan, i am what one would call a flaming liberal. I just think that people need to stop throwing blind blame to a country that isnt doing all that it could now, but has done so much good in the past. If you yell at America for not doing everything it can or expadning every resource available to help others, why not yell at the UK or Australia or China or Japan? Just because our state fo governmetn at the moment is conservative doesn't men that we arem't doign any good! First of all, in any way, hwo does teh taking of indian lands amount to somethign you make outto be one of the worst things in the world. EVER HEAR OF THE SPANISH INQUISITIOn, THE CRUSADES, THE HOLOCAUST, THE EL SALVADORIAN DEATH SQUADS?????? HELLO? I am not a perosn to pick between the lesser of two evils aas right, but come on, if you r yellign about the past, think big. ALSO, im pretty sure there are much mroe "evil"countries at teh moment. NORTH KOREA, hint hint

[Secret Neo]

I would never, EVER live in America, too fucked up. C'mon, why do Amercians glote about their freedom soo much. Jeez, Canada has MORE freedoms than you and we dont flaunt it around!! We have FREE health care and limited censorship. (You guys ever catch CBC? they dont censor anything&#33 Plus, we have more land. We're not stupid enough to build cities in the middle of the desert. Look, you dont see our tundra and grasslands filled with megacities.

[TheNocturnalGent]

I would never, EVER live in America, too fucked up. C'mon, why do Amercians glote about their freedom soo much. Jeez, Canada has MORE freedoms than you and we dont flaunt it around!! We have FREE health care and limited censorship. (You guys ever catch CBC? they dont censor anything&#33 Plus, we have more land. We're not stupid enough to build cities in the middle of the desert. Look, you dont see our tundra and grasslands filled with megacities. [/b] iF Canada wasnt so freakin cold id live there. I know alot of canadians (vacation up state) they always complain that their healthcare system is crap and the currency is losing value every day. Cities in the middle of the desert, im geussing you mean Las Vegas. They found water under the ground its one of the most successful cities onthe planet. Our freedoms are restricted and our cities are dirty and our cops are corrupt. Thats why i love NYC because i knwo what im getting into evcerytime i go there. Its not safe, thats what makes life exciting. If i wanted to sit inside all day with the heat on playing videogames and watching TV in French id live in Canada, but until global warming hits a little harder i think ill keep my fuckin awsome megacity filled with cultural diversity. BTW what you wrote there... thats flaunting.

[♥Mark]

iF Canada wasnt so freakin cold id live there. I know alot of canadians (vacation up state) they always complain that their healthcare system is crap and the currency is losing value every day. Cities in the middle of the desert, im geussing you mean Las Vegas. They found water under the ground its one of the most successful cities onthe planet. Our freedoms are restricted and our cities are dirty and our cops are corrupt. Thats why i love NYC because i knwo what im getting into evcerytime i go there. Its not safe, thats what makes life exciting. If i wanted to sit inside all day with the heat on playing videogames and watching TV in French id live in Canada, but until global warming hits a little harder i think ill keep my fuckin awsome megacity filled with cultural diversity. BTW what you wrote there... thats flaunting. [/b] Actually, our currency has gone up (relative to the American dollar, anyway) over the past few years. A while back it was about 1.3 CAD per USD, at this very moment it sits at 1.00 USD = 1.11470 CAD. (source) But, yeah, it can get pretty cold.

[shark!]

a lower canadian dollar is good for the canadian economy..hopefully it goes back down. i always wonder why so many canadians complain when its low? btw its not that cold...global warming even caused my igloo to melt really early (like june..) ...thats early. anyways why does america suck? I can only guess..capitalism/individualism, greed, christianity, ignorance, stupidity, hegemony like noam said a few posts up..not enough love?lol. maybe its lazyness?

[The Blue Meanie]

i believe we are the wealthiest nation on earth (and even if we aren't, we are defenately up there) [/b] Just out of interest, America is at the very most, the third wealthiest nation on earth. Luxembourg and Norway are the two nations definitely more wealthy. Odd, that. :s

[Universal Mind]

I am only saying this because my country has been insulted yet again. When my country is not insulted, I have no desire to start bragging. But we are being bashed again, so here I go... First of all, 1.1 million Americans were either killed or seriously injured in the fight to stop the Nazis from taking over the world and killing off all non-whites, crippled people, and opposition. And you cannot deny that we were a necessary factor in that effort. Without us, you would be either dead along with your whole race or living in a Nazi police state. That is a fact. So on that alone, show some appreciation for what people went through to give you the life you have. Some of you had your damn countries liberated by us. Your very grandparents lived under Nazi rule until our folks came in and went through Hell on Earth and in many cases died so that their descendents for the rest of history, including you, could live good lives. The United States has liberated more people than any other country in history. We stopped the Soviets from taking over the world and making it communist. Things were difficult enough with us fighting them tooth and nail. Imagine how things would have gone if we had not been there. Try to vividly visualize it and have a lucid dream about it when you go to bed tonight. Have a lucid dream about a Soviet controlled world, the world the Soviets were seeking. If it is realistic, it will be a nightmare. The United States leads the world in foreign aid. We give more money to fight world hunger and disease than ANY other country in the world. How much do you appreciate that? I think a lot of the world is very jealous of the United States. It is amazing how people will hate you for your success instead of congratulating you for it or, even when it benefits them tremendously, thanking you for it. The United States is in fact the richest nation in the world. We are not the richest per capita because we have 300 million people and are not a small colony of elites. But we are the richest nation in the world. http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:-wjL7...t=clnk&cd=3 We have the best business system in the world. I bet YOU are using something right this very second that was invented by Bill Gates. We have the most powerful military in history, and it is the biggest deterrent to the invasion of YOUR country. We make the biggest movies in the world and most of the biggest music in the world. We were the first people to land on the moon and the first people to land anything on Mars. We are the country that everybody on this web site would think of first and cry out to if their countries ever got invaded. We also are currently in the process of committing the historical landmark act of liberating huge chunks of the Middle East. We are in the nasty transition phases that are inevitable, but we are creating a future of freedom in places where people could not vote and had very few rights and where women had no rights at all. Is that good news at all? All of that makes the selfish jealous instead of appreciative. However, I am flattered by the world's obsession with us. I didn't realize we were such a big deal until I saw how much the world screeches at us with hateful envy. If you want to make us feel less significant, you can start by not making such an incredibly big deal out of us. I only saw myself as an Earthling before I saw all of that happening. Edit/P.S.- If America ever decided to actually be evil, the Middle East would suddenly turn into the world's largest sheet of glass. Have a lucid dream about what a world with a truly evil America would be like. If the Middle East still has scum blowing up babies and American liberators on purpose so they can have sex with virgins, then you are not dreaming about a truly evil America. In such a world, only American oil workers live in the Middle East so they can drill oil out from under the sheet of glass.

[The Blue Meanie]

First off, I don't intend on getting dragged into a public debate focussed solely on America. I have my views, I believe them justified. If somebody wants a private discussion with me over this issue, I'd be happy to, but I'm not going to get dragged into such an argument over what is almost purely OPINION. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki thread is different, as I believe the argument there was as to facts. First of all, 1.1 million Americans were either killed or seriously injured in the fight to stop the Nazis from taking over the world and killing off all non-whites, crippled people, and opposition. [/b] This is misleading. To my knowledge, the majority of US casualties were a result of the war against Japan, not Germany. The US played a relatively minor part in the war on Germany, compared to that of other Allied powers. And you cannot deny that we were a necessary factor in that effort. [/b] Yes, I can: The US were not a neccessary part in the war on Germany. They did play A part, however. But, more importantly: Whether or not the eventual dropping of the nuclear bombs was justified, America played an absolutely central, critical part in the war in the pacific theater, against Japan. In fact, I would argue that, nukes justified or not, without America, Japan would have "won" the war. Or at least, they would have obtained very dominant peace terms. But as far as the war on Germany is concerned: the States played a minor part. It is my opinion, and this I acknowledge is VERY controversial, that it was the Soviets who ultimately brought the end of the Nazi regime. With more wartime deaths than any other country, the Soviets fought tooth and nail, retreating, but never surrendering. The Soviets, and the ice maiden Mother Russia herself, were what brought inevitable defeat on the Germans. What broke the back of the nazi war machine. If you want to thank anyone for stopping the Nazis, go Mother Russia and kiss the ice-encrusted soil.

[Universal Mind]

We could not defeat Germany without dealing with Japan. We lost tons of soldiers in our battles with Germany. We led the D-Day invasion. We led the fight against the Nazis in Western Europe. We played a major role against Germany. In fact, I strongly contend that Russia never would have been able to defeat the Nazis without the United States. I do thank the Russian soldiers for doing so much to take down the Nazis, but I also thank the American soldiers on a major level. I very much thank the British soldiers too. I have tremendous appreciation for everybody who took down the Nazis. Had they not done it, human life on this planet would be a terrible nightmare to this day. The world would have entered an unthinkably terrible era, and I am not sure when it would have ever ended. Maybe never. Imagine that! I am very seriously talking about reality. It almost happened. Is that absolutely horrifying or what?

[Neruo]

When did this turn into a 'oh my gawd, america was sooo kewl in teh second world war'-topic? Really, who gives a shit what america did, they did ok I guess. What matters is, is how they are behaving now. Or actually mis-behaving.

[Bosco]

When did this turn into a 'oh my gawd, america was sooo kewl in teh second world war'-topic? Really, who gives a shit what america did, they did ok I guess. What matters is, is how they are behaving now. Or actually mis-behaving. [/b] Exactly...most of us just stero type people and care about ourselves now. I really want to live in europe for a year and see it its like that now. There this british guy who comes into my work everyday this week and he is like a completely differnet person than everyone else who comes in. Hes only in town for a week and he made friends with all of the worker in the store and is just generally nice

[TheNocturnalGent]

As soon as i can find a reasonably industrialised country with the comodities that i'm used to that isnt cold 6 months out of the year, ill be there. But for now, i cant get enough of NYC. I was actually planning on going to denmark and germany this fall for some concerts and other activities. But i got in a car accident and now i have a big bill to deal with.. yay.

[Rav1]

What about this future wall on the Mexican boarder? Is it in the concept of freedom to get istself isolated from rest of the world? I think America is loosing step by step its former notion of liberty.

[The Blue Meanie]

What about this future wall on the Mexican boarder? Is it in the concept of freedom to get istself isolated from rest of the world? I think America is loosing step by step its former notion of liberty. [/b] Already lost it ages ago, as far as I'm concerned. You don't have democracy there either - in fact, it's arguable that you never did. Which, given all the trumpeting of "democracy" as justification for America's various wars, is kind of ironic. You just can't have democracy with a two-party, first-past-the-post system, and overriding propaganda.

[TheNocturnalGent]

You don't have democracy there either - in fact, it's arguable that you never did. [/b] Aint that the truth.

[Universal Mind]

When did this turn into a 'oh my gawd, america was sooo kewl in teh second world war'-topic? Really, who gives a shit what america did, they did ok I guess. What matters is, is how they are behaving now. Or actually mis-behaving. [/b] It turned into that when I gave my opinion on whether America is "fucked up". That is the topic of this thread, right? Playing a necessary role in stopping the Nazis from taking over the world is better than just okay. Have you even thought about what the world would have been like if the Nazis had taken over? But I can understand your lack of appreciation, considering the fact that you said in another thread how funny you think it is to watch people die. That is why you think 1.1 million Americans getting either killed or seriously injured so that YOU can live the life of freedom to have an unappreciative attitude on the internet and such is "okay". What about this future wall on the Mexican boarder? Is it in the concept of freedom to get istself isolated from rest of the world? I think America is loosing step by step its former notion of liberty. [/b] We are talking about building a wall because living in this "fucked up" country is so incredibly in demand that we have a very serious problem with illegal immigration. It would be ridiculous to not have immigration laws. Don't you think? We allow immigrants to come here and other immigrants to become legal citizens every day, in large numbers. But it would be insane to just let people come in and become citizens whenever they feel like it without restrictions and qualifications. There would be way too many mysterious people, many very poor and ready to suck blood out of our government resources, to handle. We still trade with Mexico and other countries, obviously. We are far from isolationist. I live here, and I find it very odd that anybody would say this is not a democracy. I have tons of freedom to roam about and work or not work wherever and move and do whatever I want to do, as long as I don't break certain laws. I do disagree with our drug laws, but I must say that they are very easy to break without worrying. It's not like we are a communist country or the German police state we would be living in had the United States not driven the Nazis out of Western Europe.

[shark!]

universal wrote: It turned into that when I gave my opinion on whether America is "fucked up". That is the topic of this thread, right? [/b] universal the guy that started the thread said: This topic is for the disscussion of the philosophy of why America is so fucked up [/b] so I think it was supposed to be about "why America is so fucked up" not a discussion of whether it is fucked up or not. i was wondering why this topic turned into america is great instead of why america is so fucked up, i guess this misunderstanding explains it. americans helping to defeat nazis late in the war doesn't really matter when trying to solve the question of "why is america so fucked up" --------------- mexicans coming to america only proves america is less fucked up than mexico, is that really all you want america to be? Less Shitty than Mexico? lol. btw i always thought america was technically not a pure democracy...its a free republic. usa forefathers feared a democracy and created a Republic instead. it was never intended to be a democracy.

[Universal Mind]

universal wrote: universal the guy that started the thread said: so I think it was supposed to be about "why America is so fucked up" not a discussion of whether it is fucked up or not. i was wondering why this topic turned into america is great instead of why america is so fucked up, i guess this misunderstanding explains it. americans helping to defeat nazis late in the war doesn't really matter when trying to solve the question of "why is america so fucked up" --------------- mexicans coming to america only proves america is less fucked up than mexico, is that really all you want america to be? Less Shitty than Mexico? lol. btw i always thought america was technically not a pure democracy...its a free republic. usa forefathers feared a democracy and created a Republic instead. it was never intended to be a democracy. [/b] Saying that America is not fucked up is relevant to an issue of why it supposedly is. My response to the question of why it is is that it is not. If I started a thread titled "Why is Berlin the capital of Holland?" it would be completely on target for somebody to come in and say that it is not. It is on point to say that the things people are mentioning are not signs that America is fucked up. The country that drove the Nazis out of Western Europe is one that has at least that great deed under it belt. I will point that out when necessary.