Our Energy

[Primus7]

I shall start off with some information which you may know: the law of conservation of energy: Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Now, i was having a conversation with a friend from my school over an instant messenger who is also into dreaming and stuff and she came up with an interesting idea. If every living organism has a form of life energy, when that organism dies, what happens to the energy? We came to a conclusion that this could be the human idea of a soul. This could also mean when you die, you become part of everything else, everything is connected! Some of your energy that is left over becomes apart of everything else, this is because it has no where else to go. What happens to this energy? Is it destroyed when you die? is it sent to some place among the clouds? Does it become a part of everything? Could one small carbon molecule of your being possibly have made of a star that has exploded in the past, another person, or a dinosaur? This energy could also explain why you feel emotions from people, aka, the dog whisperers "energy". When you walk into a room full of angry people, how you can feel their anger.

[Gardenhead]

cool theory, and it seems to make sense scientifically good to see another primus fanatic on here...

[carlhungis]

I have felt the same thing for a while now. It is wierd to think about really. The fact that our body regenerates it's cells rather quickly is another interesting tidbit. 5 years (or so) from now, every cell in your body will have been replaced with new cells. Does that mean that you are someone else? No, somehow.... even with an entirely new body you still retain your own consciousness. So, what is that consciousness? Where did it come from, and what happens to it after we die?

[Slight]

.. the whole energy thing is the only one making sense to me. even though you can't prove what happens with the energy as you die .. or where it comes from as you were born ...

[The Blue Meanie]

The "problem" is quite easy to figure out. 1) Take a live person. 2) Put them in a cold room with heat insulation preventing too much heat coming in or out. 3) Now. Take the exact room temperature using a temperature measuring thingamabob. 4) Now shove a thermometer up your person's ass, and take their temperature. 5) Shoot your person in the head, deadifying them. 6) Wait a couple of weeks. 7) Come back two weeks later at the same time of day. Take the temperature of the room. 8) Take the temperature of the decomposing remains. Your findings: The dead body will be colder than it was before, and the room will be warmer. There we go, simple. You had energy, and where did it go? It dissapated, making the room slightly warmer, albeit lots smellier. My point: The Law of Conservation of Energy applies to "proper" types of energy. Scientific shit. Like kinetic, heat, etc. Don't try to apply it to any mystical energy otr any of that stuff. (I for one don't believe in that type of stuff). If you apply it to the silly new-age types of energy, you're applying a scientific law to something which it is NOT meant to apply to. This "energy" that you talk of, even if it ISNT complete crap, there is no indication whatsoever that the law of conservation of energy should apply... I'm sorry if this comes off as all cynical. And, it is. But meh. I'm a cynic.

[Primus7]

The "problem" is quite easy to figure out. 1) Take a live person. 2) Put them in a cold room with heat insulation preventing too much heat coming in or out. 3) Now. Take the exact room temperature using a temperature measuring thingamabob. 4) Now shove a thermometer up your person's ass, and take their temperature. 5) Shoot your person in the head, deadifying them. 6) Wait a couple of weeks. 7) Come back two weeks later at the same time of day. Take the temperature of the room. 8) Take the temperature of the decomposing remains. Your findings: The dead body will be colder than it was before, and the room will be warmer. There we go, simple. You had energy, and where did it go? It dissapated, making the room slightly warmer, albeit lots smellier. My point: The Law of Conservation of Energy applies to "proper" types of energy. Scientific shit. Like kinetic, heat, etc. Don't try to apply it to any mystical energy otr any of that stuff. (I for one don't believe in that type of stuff). If you apply it to the silly new-age types of energy, you're applying a scientific law to something which it is NOT meant to apply to. This "energy" that you talk of, even if it ISNT complete crap, there is no indication whatsoever that the law of conservation of energy should apply... I'm sorry if this comes off as all cynical. And, it is. But meh. I'm a cynic. [/b] Yea, i was thinking about heat, but then there has to be other types of energy in the body, doesnt there? I am not a doctor or anything but our heart runs on electronic pulses to contract and stuff, and our brain uses electricity for messages right? and yes. i agree about your idea being cynical... maybe we could use a cat?

[Burns]

I shall start off with some information which you may know: the law of conservation of energy: Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. We came to a conclusion that this could be the human idea of a soul. This could also mean when you die, you become part of everything else, everything is connected! Some of your energy that is left over becomes apart of everything else, this is because it has no where else to go. What happens to this energy? Is it destroyed when you die? is it sent to some place among the clouds? Does it become a part of everything? Could one small carbon molecule of your being possibly have made of a star that has exploded in the past, another person, or a dinosaur? This energy could also explain why you feel emotions from people, aka, the dog whisperers "energy". When you walk into a room full of angry people, how you can feel their anger.[/b] I've been very aware of this energy for awhile now. Like Blue, I am a logical thinker, but you have to understand that there are energies and processes happening right now that humans cannot even dream of comprehending. The life force and electrical energy that humans radiate HAS to be connected with its environment - it's only logical. We are all connected - to everything on this planet. Energy is recycled, through people, animals, plants, weather, the earth - everything. Everything you see is energy. ... maybe we could use a cat? [/b] Negative.

[Howie]

I would like to think that some way that our conscious would go to venture to new places. However I have to agree with The Blue Meanie. Compost

[Neruo]

No offence, but you are full of feces. If you die, you rot. Rotting occurs when bacteria and moulds break down your body, that gives them the energy to live. There is your SOUL. If you still don't get it, I am quite willing to explain. It isn't that hard to see that you 'energy cannot be destroyed' point has Nothing to do with a soul. Since energy can be put in just about any form, including in the worms that eat your brains if you freaking Die. - Edit: Actually, TBM allready did all my work.

[The Blue Meanie]

Yea, i was thinking about heat, but then there has to be other types of energy in the body, doesnt there? I am not a doctor or anything but our heart runs on electronic pulses to contract and stuff, and our brain uses electricity for messages right? and yes. i agree about your idea being cynical... maybe we could use a cat? [/b] Yes, of course there's other types of enerygy. The kinetic, of all the shit moving inside your body, the electrical, and the like. That all goes to heat. Mostly. I'm sorry, but, I just don't see what on earth it is you're talking to when it comes to this new-age energy that you're trying to apply the law of conservation of energy to? No offence, but you are full of feces. [/b] You realise that that's the same as saying: "Look, friend, I don't want to offend you, but you're a complete and utter asshole who should be taken out the back and shot." OR "Hey, God, I don't want to sound like an atheist, but you don't exist." OR "I really don't want to sound like an anti-semitist, but Hitler really was onto a good idea when he decided to kill all the jews." Errrr... Just makin' a point.

[Patrick]

Yep, I also have to agree with Blue Meanie and Neruo, and all the other skeptics.

[blade5x]

TBM I've been taught the basic forms of energy, but that's not all that there is. You do know that over 70% of the universe is made out of dark energy, over 20% is dark matter - however, we cannot see it, nor do we know exactly what it is, but we do scientifically have evidence that it exists, and we do know it's necessary for the universe to function the way it does.

[Burns]

I'm sorry, but, I just don't see what on earth it is you're talking to when it comes to this new-age energy that you're trying to apply the law of conservation of energy to?[/b] The idea of energy and everything being connected is anything but new-age. The idea is thousands of years old. If the idea of earth energy invokes inaccurate feelings of crystal balls and unicorns you for, then yes, you may call it "new-age." Actually, the thought that "we die, we rot, the end" is more new-ageish because of the rapid loss of faith our generations are facing nowadays. That's the new age.

[The Blue Meanie]

The idea of energy and everything being connected is anything but new-age. The idea is thousands of years old. If the idea of earth energy invokes inaccurate feelings of crystal balls and unicorns you for, then yes, you may call it "new-age." [/b] Yeah, sorry, but I dump it all in the same wastepaper basket. However, I can accept that some eastern ideas are of some use, in that they are a different way of arriving at the same conclusions as science. Particularly with some buddhist ideas, some conclusions reached by buddhism can be placed within a scientific context. BUT. When it comes to "Earth energy" or chi or whatever you want to call it, EVEN if it does exist (which I don't think it does), there is NO indication WHATSOEVER that it is a form of "energy" per se, and as such, the law of conservation of energy should not be applied to that type of energy.

[Roller]

Yeah I think Blue Meanie is on the right track here. Heat energy is one energy that dissipates from the body after death. The rest of the energy is chemical energy - ie, locked up in the fat and tissue of the person&#39;s body. This energy (technically &#39;potential energy&#39 stays with the body until it rots away. If someone decides to eat the body, then the fat etc provides energy for them. If someone cremates the body, the energy is released as heat and light. There&#39;s really nothing mystical about it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Burns")</div> Like Blue, I am a logical thinker, but you have to understand that there are energies and processes happening right now that humans cannot even dream of comprehending.[/b] Maybe, but if we cannot comprehend these energies and processes, how do we know they exist? If we cannot comprehend them then it seems unlikely we will ever find any evidence for them, making it pretty useless to believe in them. Not trying to have a personal dig here, I just don&#39;t sit easy with things that are forever beyond our understanding.

[Burns]

Maybe, but if we cannot comprehend these energies and processes, how do we know they exist? If we cannot comprehend them then it seems unlikely we will ever find any evidence for them, making it pretty useless to believe in them. Not trying to have a personal dig here, I just don't sit easy with things that are forever beyond our understanding.[/b] So you don't sit well with the universe in general then? Surely you can't be so arrogent as to think people know everything there is to know about space, time, and energy. And like you said, not a personal attack, but it baffles me that people claim to know everything and blow off any ideas other than their own as "mystical." Remember, our perception of reality itself is a theory. That doesn't mean we can't believe it just because we can't prove it.

[Neruo]

[Repling to my insult to the topic starter] [/i]' date='Oct 17 2006, 08:39 PM' post='366247'] You realise that that's the same as saying: "Look, friend, I don't want to offend you, but you're a complete and utter asshole who should be taken out the back and shot." OR "Hey, God, I don't want to sound like an atheist, but you don't exist." OR "I really don't want to sound like an anti-semitist, but Hitler really was onto a good idea when he decided to kill all the jews." Errrr... Just makin' a point. [/b] lol. With the paradox I just make it even more sarcastic, yes. But it seems like such an obvious thing that whatever he said clearly isn't an argument in favor of the existance of souls. - So you don't sit well with the universe in general then? Surely you can't be so arrogent as to think people know everything there is to know about space, time, and energy. And like you said, not a personal attack, but it baffles me that people claim to know everything and blow off any ideas other than their own as "mystical." Remember, our perception of reality itself is a theory. That doesn't mean we can't believe it just because we can't prove it. [/b] I find it really resonable to call certain things 'less likely', in other words: 'mystical' or in even other words: 'total bullcrap'. The exsitance of invisible pink unicorns for instance is, regarding to the logic every aspect of our -indeed highy subjective- personal and allso common perception seem to follow, unlikely. Point is: It is reasonable to say that no-one is going to turn into a yellow teapot without the help of a teapot-o-matic not yet invented is unlikely. Very unlikely. In the same way it is improble that people have a devine soul that 'goes someplace by traveling to the magic starfilled places of the univerrrrrse'. Because no-one has ever seen a soul or witnessed any sightings/mesurements of an actual soul -that exists of some unknown and non-material compound (yet it interacts with our brain somehow).

[Keeper]

still, less likly dosn't mean immposable. For all you know there ARE pink unicorns running around you as we speak. Can you tell me if there is a invisable and intangible imp (or alien if you prefure) on your sholder right now? Science says that it hasn't found everything yet, and you would be a fool to say that it says something dosn't exist, because it continualy says that it has found something, no that it proves that something dosn't exist for all you know, you will read in the paper tommorow: "Scientist have found unicorns DO exist". until you realize that souls could exist, you are saying that science says they dont, well science actualy proves that the body has an "aura" that MAY be the soul. The energy theory isn't very far fetched, though it IS unlikly. YET IT COULD BE TRUE So tell me, IS there a invisable imp on your sholder that cant be touched? Please, frase your answer in a scientific manner.

[Neruo]

So tell me, IS there a invisable imp on your sholder that cant be touched? Please, frase your answer in a scientific manner. [/b] Rather Fucking unlikely For one, no one has ever seen an imp, and becouse it has alot of ties in mythology it is unlikely it is based on something besides a parrot with rabies. Secondly, as far as scientific knowledge knows today, no invisible creatures exist. Unless the imp is as large as a single cell, what makes it pretty darn hard to be an imp, I don't think it is likely for the hypothetical imp to be invisible. Basicly if something is invisible it probably allso is un-touchable. Unless the light is curved around the imp, invisibility would mean that fotons do not reflect off the imp, thus it is unlikely your hand would feel anything from the imp. - Keeper, what you are saying is: 'everything is possible', and yes it is. But you are allso saying 'I am going to believe in *something like invisible pink unicorns*, even though it is unlikely, just becouse IT FEELS RIGHT DAMMIT!'. Science wasn't build on that.

[Keeper]

actually, I'm not I'll give you an example: What can you tell me about entropy?

[The Blue Meanie]

The energy theory isn't very far fetched, though it IS unlikly. YET IT COULD BE TRUE So tell me, IS there a invisable imp on your sholder that cant be touched? Please, frase your answer in a scientific manner. [/b] This is why Occam's Razor was invented. (Grrr.... fcuking epistemeology&#33

[Primus7]

So you don't sit well with the universe in general then? Surely you can't be so arrogent as to think people know everything there is to know about space, time, and energy. And like you said, not a personal attack, but it baffles me that people claim to know everything and blow off any ideas other than their own as "mystical." Remember, our perception of reality itself is a theory. That doesn't mean we can't believe it just because we can't prove it. [/b] You are just mad at this theory cause i nominated a cat as a test subject

[Roller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Burns")</div> So you don&#39;t sit well with the universe in general then? Surely you can&#39;t be so arrogent as to think people know everything there is to know about space, time, and energy. And like you said, not a personal attack, but it baffles me that people claim to know everything and blow off any ideas other than their own as "mystical."[/b] Well I do sit well with the universe in general because it is comprehensible. If something is beyond our dreams of comprehension, then we cannot know it exists by the very definition of &#39;beyond comprehension.&#39;

[Burns]

Well I do sit well with the universe in general because it is comprehensible. If something is beyond our dreams of comprehension, then we cannot know it exists by the very definition of 'beyond comprehension.'[/b] I'm talking about comprehension of how it works - not if it exists or not. No one knows how the universe works, or even how it was born, and we'll likely never know (in our lifetime, anyway). But just because we don't fully understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do you see what I'm tyring to say??

[Primus7]

You guys are argueing over something that will probably never be answered in our life times.