Thread: Ultimate Reality And Perception

As indivduals persons, the conventional mind only sees interpretations of Ultimate Reality.

Why is this so? This is because, firstly, sensory data are interpretations (manifested form) of reality. Why are they interpretations and are not the direct experiencing of it (reality)? To illustrate this point let's consider the perception of 2 persons: a color-blind person and one with normal vision. The color-blind person may see images differently from one who is not. So... who is seeing the truth? None. Both are seeing interpretations (manifested form) of the truth. Likewise animals may see and sense things differently from humans.

Sensory data that are being perceived are in turn cognated by the conventional mind. Again, the conventional mind sees interpretations collected by sensory perception. From the sensory data, the conventional mind conceives the information into things, environments and people, etc.

Here's a simplified example to illustrate this point:

By differentiating the changes in colours on the vision sight, the conventional mind cognate edges. Perceiving that the edges are connected, an enclosed area becomes recognised. Next, the enclosed area become perceived as objects, things, entities...

The conventional mind can only theorizes from its interpretations. Science is based on the theory and concepts derived from the conventional mind.

Science is just that... conceptual framework for understanding the dynamics of Ultimate Reality... But it can only theorizes using concepts.

To truly experience Ultimate Reality...one must go beyond thinking (which is theorising) about Reality. We must experience it directly.

From the way that I have written, some people might have the misconceptions that the Source(Reality) is separated from us. This is clearly not so. It is only the conventional discriminating mind that think in terms of separation and duality. However, the conventional discriminating mind itself is not an entity, but is just the dualistic function of cognition.

For your necessary discernment. Thank you for reading.

I thought it might be interesting to add this as well:

We are not capable of experiencing complete sensations.

As each sensation is the interpretation between stimulus and a backgroud or backdrop, nothing can ever have a complete experience of perception.

Consider that every sense becomes distinguishable by comparison to other stimulus of that particular sensation.

Sounds stupid? Consider the following:
If everything smelt like X, then there would be no sense of smell as there is nothing to distinguish.
If everything looked the same, you would be in a void.

Does this mean we could perceive everything if we were in a theoretical room that contains all of the same stimulus?

Yes, but what would be the difference between this person and a dead person?

I hope I stirred the pot..

~

A man walking through a field at dusk comes across a coil of speckled rope in the grass and, mistaking it for a snake, develops fear. Even though a snake appears vividly to his mind, that snake does not exist from its own side. It is merely a projection of his mind, imputed by conceptual thought in dependence upon the rope. Other than this, no snake can be found because neither the coil of rope as a whole nor any part of it is a snake.

In just the same way, all phenomena are merely imputed by conceptual thought. For example, the I does not exist from its own side. It is merely a projection of the mind imputed by conceptual thought in dependence upon the aggregates.

If we try to find an I other than the mere conceptual imputation 'I' we shall not succeed because neither the collection of the aggregates nor any individual aggregate is the I. Existing phenomena such as the I differ from the imagined snake in that they are valid imputations; but there is no difference from the point of view of their being merely imputed by conceptual thought.

In the analogy, because the man sees the rope in the twilight he mistakenly apprehends a snake and develops fear. To remove this fear he must remove the mind apprehending a snake by realizing that there is no snake. .

Similarly, sentient beings observing their aggregates in the darkness of their ignorance mistakenly apprehend an inherently existent I.


This doesnt mean that "I" doesnt exist or that the rope doesnt exist, but not like we see it. They are elements/mental inputations)) put together by our mind and interpreted in a specific way.. (rope, me)..they are just concepts, they are changing they are not stable,you see this object as X an animal sees it as XYW/// so we can say that they are empty..
the same with all of OUR wolrd...

Thanks for the sharing...

From what I gather you seem to be arguing that we cannot directly experience the world around us (or 'reality' if you want to call it that.)

You also seem to be arguing that there is no single, objective universe - each and every person 'experiences' the world in a different way, so therefore there can be no one true 'reality.' If so, this is called relativism. I know of a few replies to this argument, but just want to make sure that this is what you are talking about first.

For those of you who think that we are currently unable to experiance 'reality', how would any entity gain this ability?

Originally Posted by Merlin38

For those of you who think that we are currently unable to experiance 'reality', how would any entity gain this ability?
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Be no entity. Completely let go and surrender. Our constantly thinking mind is what that block direct perception of Truth Reality.

Be surprised by what is being experienced if one succeeds in doing so. Enter into a vivid experience.

Isn't heightened perception achieveable without losing the self?

Originally Posted by dreamdatum

Be no entity. Completely let go and surrender. Our constantly thinking mind is what that block direct perception of Truth Reality.

Be surprised by what is being experienced if one succeeds in doing so. Enter into a vivid experience.
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That isn't possible unless you're dead. You cannot become a nonentity. Nor can you just stop thinking about the tangible reality around you and suddenly be tuned into some form of higher existence.

As for what is ultimate reality; how do we ever know what it is? Since everyone sees things in a different perspective, no-one can know the truth. Interpreting reality is exactly like how different denominations of Christians try to intrepret the Bible. Everyone can intrepret it a different way, and attempt to prove that their way is the correct way, but no-one can know what the truth really is.

Originally Posted by Chaos

That isn't possible unless you're dead. You cannot become a nonentity. Nor can you just stop thinking about the tangible reality around you and suddenly be tuned into some form of higher existence.

As for what is ultimate reality; how do we ever know what it is? Since everyone sees things in a different perspective, no-one can know the truth. Interpreting reality is exactly like how different denominations of Christians try to intrepret the Bible. Everyone can intrepret it a different way, and attempt to prove that their way is the correct way, but no-one can know what the truth really is.
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No you cant just "stop thinking about the tangible reality around you and suddenly be tuned into some form of higher existence." or all parts of us would be dooing just that. It takes intention, patience and asking your self for guidence. Talking about it is one thing. Experianceing it is another. This body that "I" experiance right now has been there as has others. Meditation is the key. Go on a jurney in to self and experiance everybody else. Dont take this bodys word for it. You do not belive in any of this and that is ok. Just do not "NOT belive" anything as that will close your mind. Just BE aware of all parts of you and realize all parts of you and know that there is no reason to push away or reject any of it.

We are waking up and taking off our mask =)

Originally Posted by Chaos

That isn't possible unless you're dead. You cannot become a nonentity. Nor can you just stop thinking about the tangible reality around you and suddenly be tuned into some form of higher existence.

As for what is ultimate reality; how do we ever know what it is? Since everyone sees things in a different perspective, no-one can know the truth. Interpreting reality is exactly like how different denominations of Christians try to intrepret the Bible. Everyone can intrepret it a different way, and attempt to prove that their way is the correct way, but no-one can know what the truth really is.
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Some Buddists would probably disagree. It is possible to eliminate thought about tangible reality. Buddists call this nirvana. Most westerners are more familiar with 'persistent vegetative state/coma.'

Everyone does perceive reality differently. In the manner of philosophy, ultimate reality may well differ for every individual, and for that individual, their perception is the truth. I'm sure the idea of living in an all-you-can-eat buffet for eternity would seem heavenly to some people. Others may be content with a simple, country life. In matters of opinion, there are rarely instances of only one truth. We make our own ultimate reality.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Some Buddists would probably disagree. It is possible to eliminate thought about tangible reality. Buddists call this nirvana. Most westerners are more familiar with 'persistent vegetative state/coma.'

Everyone does perceive reality differently. In the manner of philosophy, ultimate reality may well differ for every individual, and for that individual, their perception is the truth. I'm sure the idea of living in an all-you-can-eat buffet for eternity would seem heavenly to some people. Others may be content with a simple, country life. In matters of opinion, there are rarely instances of only one truth. We make our own ultimate reality.
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"Your truth is nothing more than Truth's own lie." -me, in a poem...
(before I continue, I'd like to ask a question so I can finish this poem. Perception is derived from Reality, so what is Reality derived from? Or if that can't be answered, what completes the perception/reality/XXX trilogy? Thanks)

Reality cannot be achieved, at least not through the human mind in its current form. We can come as close as we want, but the Uncertainty Principle make sure we don't reach Ultimate Reality.

Originally Posted by Drk

"Your truth is nothing more than Truth's own lie." -me, in a poem...
(before I continue, I'd like to ask a question so I can finish this poem. Perception is derived from Reality, so what is Reality derived from? Or if that can't be answered, what completes the perception/reality/XXX trilogy? Thanks)

Reality cannot be achieved, at least not through the human mind in its current form. We can come as close as we want, but the Uncertainty Principle make sure we don't reach Ultimate Reality.
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Bro! I love the way you put that! :bravo:

A: abundance: The sleeping giant within us all. In this order:
Source/reality/perception/our new reality/*whisper* our reality that is to come

"When darkness shines in you. When light rains down on me"

When *understanding* enters your *life* and it´s of a *cosmic dimension*
Your heart wanders hand in hand with the source of your soles *intention*
this then ignites a *light* that enables us to see
Just where in this universe that we are meant to *BE*

Originally Posted by Drk

"Your truth is nothing more than Truth's own lie." -me, in a poem...
(before I continue, I'd like to ask a question so I can finish this poem. Perception is derived from Reality, so what is Reality derived from? Or if that can't be answered, what completes the perception/reality/XXX trilogy? Thanks)

Reality cannot be achieved, at least not through the human mind in its current form. We can come as close as we want, but the Uncertainty Principle make sure we don't reach Ultimate Reality.
[/b]

Reality is the base state. From the base state, we can draw our own perceptions. From our perceptions, we can form our own Ultimate Reality.

If we can come as close as we want, and we want to get into the UR, we can get into it. One doesn't nessicarily need to understand every aspect of a certian reality to participate in it.

eg.: You don't have to understand the entirity of economic theory, but if you buy things, or hold a job, you are a part of that reality.

The only real 'truths' are paradoxes...

Every answer ends with a question, and every question begins with an answer.


We, the finite figments of infinity are all holding onto this idea of reality as something outside ourselves to provide us with some low-brow entertainment before we return to that eternal solitude of realizing ourselves as infinity.

Half of infinity is still infinity...and we exist within it.