Good And Evil.

[taltho]

If one assumes evil is a deficiency of goodness, wouldn't the increase of goodness increase evil? Wouldn't the increasing order of the universe contribute equally to disorder, or the creation of our universe suggest a destruction of the same? If: Goodness is hte force of creation. Evil is the force of destruction. How can evil destroy without there first being creation? Couldn't evil be the process of death, the death of life/creation/goodness. Can we not assume this to be a natural universal force? After all we live, we die. Everything around us seems to fallow this principle, even universes.

[13redfan]

If one assumes evil is a deficiency of goodness, wouldn't the increase of goodness increase evil? Wouldn't the increasing order of the universe contribute equally to disorder, or the creation of our universe suggest a destruction of the same? If: Goodness is hte force of creation. Evil is the force of destruction. How can evil destroy without there first being creation? Couldn't evil be the process of death, the death of life/creation/goodness. Can we not assume this to be a natural universal force? After all we live, we die. Everything around us seems to fallow this principle, even universes. [/b] Yes

[Merlin38]

My understanding of evil lies more with disturbance and chaos, whereas good is a natural, peaceful state.

[Oneironaut Zero]

I think that there are infinite extremes on both sides. With every act of goodness, there exists a counter-act of evil, and vice versa. So yeah. I agree with the OP.

[Brilliand]

An increase in good increases the potential for evil. It does not increase the actual amount of evil. So good is still good.

[Merlin38]

If one assumes evil is a deficiency of goodness, wouldn't the increase of goodness increase evil? If: Goodness is hte force of creation. Evil is the force of destruction. Can we not assume this to be a natural universal force? [/b] If evil is a deficiency of good, then increasing good would decrease the deficiency, and thereby, evil. Death is unquestionably part of the life cycle of every object. I wouldn't call natural processes evil, would you?

[Brilliand]

If evil is a deficiency of good, then increasing good would decrease the deficiency, and thereby, evil. Death is unquestionably part of the life cycle of every object. I wouldn't call natural processes evil, would you? [/b] Death was caused by evil. As a creationist, I can say that.

[Merlin38]

What is it about creationism that allows you to classify natural processes as evil?

[Chaos]

My understanding of evil lies more with disturbance and chaos, whereas good is a natural, peaceful state. [/b] Hey, not all chaos is evil Anyway, back to the topic... I really don't believe that good and evil balance each other out. There is far more evil in this world than good. Really, most of the people who govern us are evil, b/c the power eventually corrupts them. So, since they are corrupt, they cause the nations they govern to also be corrupt. I do not deny that there are many good people in the world, but they just really don't balance out the evil ones that exist. Death was caused by evil. As a creationist, I can say that. [/b] As an Athiest, I do not believe that Adam and Eve caused all of the evil in the world just by eating a couple of apples. I believe in evolution, and that evil was created when people started becoming civilized. When people became civilized, they learned to covet, and thus to steal, lie, and even kill to get what they want. In all reality, I think possession is really the root of all evil. Death happens as a natural part of life. If there was no death, there would be no room for life. Death, in and of itself, is not evil, but natures way of recycling.

[Merlin38]

How do you define corrupt, and how can you say it overweighs the good?

[Chaos]

How do you define corrupt, and how can you say it overweighs the good? [/b] Hmmm...Can you really name one world leader who isn't corrupt??? Really, every one of them only want what is convenient for them and do not care what happens to the countries they govern!

[Merlin38]

If that were true, then every society would be a militant dictatorship.

[Neruo]

I don't agree. Good and evil are completely relative, human terms.

[Chaos]

If that were true, then every society would be a militant dictatorship.[/b] Not precisely. The world leaders know that society in general would not submit to being suddenly taken over. Thats why gov'ts are limiting our rights slowly. They are slowly abolishing the rights they originally gave us. They can now limit our freedom of speech and religion. They can tap our phone lines for no reason, read the sites we have visited on the web, and set up surveillance on us if they think we are a threat, not to society in general, but to the new world order they are trying to create. By time society in general realizes what is going on, it will be too late.

[OneRyt]

Evil and Good are just words with labels. They are concepts, phenominon, emotions, that we as humans (being the first beings in the Universe to intake this information) have formed a bias thought pattern towards. What must be understood is that all is universal. When your thoughts are at this level, you realize that individual actions are all neutral. Each one has the potential for good and evil. Mind check. Good is perceived as pleasant to you. Bad is perceived as unpleasant. Keep in mind, that one mans garbage is anothers treasure. So when one mind is conditioned to think your perception of pleasant is crossed with what you perceive as Bad, then you would assume they have a deficiency of some sort. But this is not true, they have merely realized opposite side of a paradox. Now, touching on the question: "why are we here?" Well, why would the universe need living sentient beings, which can logically think, receive information, gaze upon beautiful shapes, colours and objects, taste the bitters and the sweets, hear the various sounds (music, birds, cars etc.) and just generally have the ability to receive information? Very simple, but first. Our Universe is in the process of creating. It creates matter from energy, matter into molecules etc. etc. so that eventually space has pretty much evolved into the way we now know it. Now that we&#39;ve got all the workings available, it&#39;s time for something to gaze upon my beautiful creations. In comes Planet Earth. The Earth goes through plenty of developmental stages. Water, land, ice, etc. I&#39;m sure you know. Eventually though, a new result occurs. (this is basically how the process of our universe has always gone... one thing leads to another etc. etc.) All of a sudden there is a sentient being able to realize the beauty of the Universes splendor. Now to just debrief the evolutionary cycle of humans... (as we know them) Belief mediated by church. (Church/religion synonimous with Government/patriotism both = politics, people with knowledge who don&#39;t share it and use it to control, thus ruling class) Church betrays people. People seek answers. People label and tag everything. People still need to be productive. Mass amounts go back to work and wait for answers. People exploring figure stuff out. People exploring stuff re-label church/religion to Government/Patriotism. (Leaving religion out of it, to be safe) Old politics revert to trying to control the beliefs. The masses cling to old politics, as it is the only form of spirituality that has been taught to them on a mass scale. The masses seek out easy and orderly lives. Humanity as a collective entertains themselves with all of the science of God while they wait for answers. People as a collective establish public information sharing systems. (internet) The masses can now access the information they please. Eventually the people discover the essence of spirituality. Which ends up being the process of evolution the Universe had in mind for us. Everything we&#39;ve done so far has brought us this far for a reason. So that we may consciously be apart of the Universe, and experience it&#39;s splendor. The temptations of Earth and our physical bodies were our first test, and first experience as a race as a whole. Now that we&#39;ve matured, we start to open up to the thoughts inside of us. This is where Quantum Physics jumps in. < Won&#39;t go too far there. (Watch the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?" When we start looking inward instead of outward, we start to realize the actualization of self. We&#39;ve basically been conditioned, through the process of discovery, to believe that the outside world is more real then the inside. How can we determine what is outside that we are observing, is actually real, when the self which is observing it, is actually intangible? You might say, I&#39;m not intangible, I can feel pain, that means things are real. (This is out of the movie btw) But there is nothing in your brain, which says it is an observer. There is no observer in the brain at all. Only chemicals a brain with electricity running through it, and into your physical body. How can you say if you&#39;re real at all? Perhaps your perception is a dream? Who knows. All we really know, is that YOU are in control of your body, but remembering that your every bit of existence is made and determined by God, that you have God&#39;s energy within you. (God = Oneness) It&#39;s the same thought that Christians hold, where everyman has Christ within him. The problem here, lays with the fact that Jesus was a normal being who was more aware of these ideals, and tried to proliferate them, but was met with a form of religion which resented his interruptions in their game. Once he was crucified, they could use his example to their own benefit. So Christianity holds one piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, we&#39;re missing much of the rest. Now, since we all have that inner God within us here is something to ponder on. (We all must go through this journey of discovery on our own time and pace, so I will not post too much on this matter) Silence,------ The question is, who rules in every second, the voice of the inner God or the voice of other outside interests, which covers the inner voice of silence. Which voice is louder, - the inner one - or the external one? This question is important. Important for our forward-going into a united future. The answer is given by themself through the reaction of the personality. What I am doing now, at present. What I have done yesterday and what will I do in the fututre. It is a kind of awareness which we should get. The question is: "For whom I am working, whom I am serving? For the inner silent voice of God or for the outside voice of the external personality? Which voice I am following in every moment? We have to ask us this question again and again. The unsplitted work in us, the work with the inner God, is work to join the world. To join the world more and more in every second.

[Indecent Exposure]

Good, Evil Concepts fashioned and moulded by society to meet its own ends There is no such thing The lion kills the gazelle, is the lion evil? the weed kills the other plants in the garden, is it evil? The human destorys the natural habitat of many speices to use it as fuel, is he evil? Imran

[Neruo]

Good, Evil Concepts fashioned and moulded by society to meet its own ends There is no such thing The lion kills the gazelle, is the lion evil? the weed kills the other plants in the garden, is it evil? The human destorys the natural habitat of many speices to use it as fuel, is he evil? Imran[/b] Good point. Actually 'fighting' people fucking up the world (wars, nukes, toxic waste) is also 'human'. It is selfish. I just want me and my children to be able to live.

[Chaos]

The human destorys the natural habitat of many speices to use it as fuel, is he evil? Imran[/b] The human, unlike the creatures and plants you mentioned, has a conscience, and therefore knows the difference between good and evil. Like I said before, when humans became 'civilized' they became possessive, which caused evil, but they also gained conscience, which though it doesn't balance out the evil, it does make this world a much better place than it would be if we didn't have consciences.

[Neruo]

The human, unlike the creatures and plants you mentioned, has a conscience, and therefore knows the difference between good and evil. Like I said before, when humans became 'civilized' they became possessive, which caused evil, but they also gained conscience, which though it doesn't balance out the evil, it does make this world a much better place than it would be if we didn't have consciences. [/b] We needed conscience to become such a huge (world-destroying) civilization. Side effect is that we can Think about terms like 'right' and 'wrong'. That doesn't make them divine or anything. If we would be without a conscience the way you mean it, derived of all ethics, something that is extremely unlikely to happen trough evolution, then the world might be worse off, yes. However, conscience is so closely linked with what we do, it would make no sense. Killing everyone you see / being a huge asshole to everyone / being extremely destructive are also forms of conscience, just 'bad' forms. - (Are conscious and conscience two different words in English I didn't know.)

[Merlin38]

Not precisely. The world leaders know that society in general would not submit to being suddenly taken over. Thats why gov'ts are limiting our rights slowly. They are slowly abolishing the rights they originally gave us. They can now limit our freedom of speech and religion. They can tap our phone lines for no reason, read the sites we have visited on the web, and set up surveillance on us if they think we are a threat, not to society in general, but to the new world order they are trying to create. By time society in general realizes what is going on, it will be too late.[/b] Not precisely. The world leaders know that society in general would not submit to having their rights being taken away. Some freedoms have always been limited. In the case of speech: One cannot falsely yell "fire" in a crowded area, due to the panic and damage that such chaos would be likely to cause. In the case of speech: If a religion calls for the destruction of all non-beleivers, and people of that religion attempt to carry out that practice, the government does have a right to protect it's other citizens. You say that governments can tap your phone lines for no reason, if they think that you are a threat. That is a sufficient reason to monitor your conversations. Fortunately, we do have a system of checks and balances that would prevent elected officials from abusing this power. You say that when society in general realizes what is going on, it will be too late, but the majority of Americans have heard droves of negative stories concerning the U.S.'s surveillance techniques. There have been instances of abuse, and they have been discovered, and acted upon. When the system of balance that we have in our government strives to ensure the safety and freedoms of the whole, it is definitely good.

[OneRyt]

What people don't realize is that evolution provides the necessities to go forward. Good and Evil are one, seperated by an infection of a set of ideals. It is necessary to dispel this infection, in order for much to be accomplished.

[Brilliand]

It seems to me these ideals are keeping themselves alive by preserving those who will support them. That's what evolution is all about, isn't it? Why should these ideals be any less an evolutionary development than anything else?

[Merlin38]

Evil isn't a lesser part of evolutionary development. Let's make the assumption that humans are inherintly harmonious, and evil is a threat to that harmony. Humans evolve to deal with that threat. If there were no threat to the status quo, there would be no need to change.

[Replicon]

I think the concepts of "good and evil" are very old-fashioned, and it's a shame that so many people's belief systems are still based on something that effectively renders them stuck in the middle ages. I think you start with that "good" and "evil" notion and map it to people. There are "good people" and "bad people"... but that's just a start! No matter how good/bad a person is, they've all done both good things and bad things. So now we have that extra dimension, with 4 possibilities. But then you can add reason to it. "Good people do some bad things for the wrong reasons" or "Bad people do good things for the right reasons" and so on. Now we've got those extra dimensions, and 8 possibilities, and we haven't even defined what "right reasons" means! But that's just a start. That assumes absolutes. People who think in terms of absolutes, just like the people who think just in terms of "good and evil", are stuck in the middle ages. Once you add degrees to everything, you get a huge range of possibilities! It's no longer greyscale at this point. But is it measurable? Well, you might come up with a way to weigh all those things and come up with a number that says good or evil... Except we haven't even brought in the fact that everyone has a different worldview. Now, most of the definitions that have to do with goodness and evilness are meaningless accross different worldviews. What I'm trying to get at is, while it's very interesting to discuss the roles of good and evil, if you try to use that kind of reasoning to analyze people/cultures, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

[Chaos]

You say that governments can tap your phone lines for no reason, if they think that you are a threat. That is a sufficient reason to monitor your conversations. Fortunately, we do have a system of checks and balances that would prevent elected officials from abusing this power.[/b] You don't have to be a terrorist in order for your phone to be tapped. All you have to be is someone who knows too much about what is really going on the the gov't. Basically, if you start asking the wrong quesions and find out too much, you're in deep trouble. You say that when society in general realizes what is going on, it will be too late, but the majority of Americans have heard droves of negative stories concerning the U.S.'s surveillance techniques. There have been instances of abuse, and they have been discovered, and acted upon.[/b] Yeah... I'm sure that's what Russia thought too before Stalin took control, as did Germany before Hitler. When the system of balance that we have in our government strives to ensure the safety and freedoms of the whole, it is definitely good.[/b] If you say so.