Ancient flying machines

[sloth]

Vimanas: (Geez.. Where to begin...) References to flying machines are commonplace in ancient Indian texts, which even describe their use in warfare. Besides being able to fly in the Earth's atmosphere, vimānas were also said to be able to travel into space or submerged under water. There are thousands of pages of these texts. Furthermore, they are not just stories, but flight manuals, even technical manuals and instructions for the pilots that reportedly flew these vehicles. They are not spoken of as make believe. All texts are written matter of factly. According to the texts, vimanas were given to humans by the 'gods'. Eventually the humans rose up in a revolt against the 'gods', and so the gods attacked back. From the Mahabarata: “The heavens cried out, the earth bellowed an answer, lightening flashed forth, fire flamed upwards, it rained down death. The brightness vanished, the fire was extinguished. Everyone who was struck by the lightening was turned to ashes”. And again from the same source: “It was a ghastly sight to see. The corpses of the fallen were so mutilated they no longer looked like human beings. Never before have we seen such an awful weapon, and never before have we heard of such a weapon”. The archaeological expedition, which carried out excavations near the Indian settlement of Mohenjo-Daro in the beginning of the 1900s, uncovered the ruins of a big ancient town. The town belonged to one of the most developed civilizations in the world. The ancient civilization existed for two or three thousand years. However, scientists were a lot more interested in the death of the town, rather than in its prosperity. A lot can happen in two or three thousand years. Researchers tried to explain the reason of the town's destruction with various theories. However, scientists did not find any indications of a monstrous flood, there were no fragments of weapons, or anything else that could testify either to a natural disaster or a war. Archaeologists were perplexed: according to their analysis the catastrophe in the town had occurred very unexpectedly and it did not last long. Along the streets were melted objects that were later determined to be clay pots that had lined the streets. Some of the rock buildings were even melted together. What is hot enough to melt rock? Some skeletons were found in casual positions; sitting, laying, holding their babies. This fact shows that the mothers died the same moment as their infants. Scientists Davneport and Vincenti put forward an amazing theory. They stated the ancient town had been ruined with a nuclear blast. They found big stratums of clay and green glass. Apparently, archaeologists supposed, high temperature melted clay and sand and they hardened immediately afterwards. Similar stratums of green glass can also found in Nevada deserts after every nuclear explosion. A hundred years have passed since the excavations in Mohenjo-Daro. The modern analysis showed, the fragments of the ancient town had been melted with extremely high temperature – not less than 1,500 degrees centigrade. Researchers also found the strictly outlined epicenter, where all houses were leveled. Destructions lessened towards the outskirts. Dozens of skeletons were found in the area of Mohenjo-Daro – their radioactivity exceeded the norm almost 50 times. To this day, the area is still highly radioactive. The great ancient Indian epic, the Mahabharata, contains numerous legends about the powerful force of a mysterious weapon. One of the chapters tells of a shell, which sparkled like fire, but had no smoke. “When the shell hit the ground, the darkness covered the sky, twisters and storms leveled the towns. A horrible blast burnt thousands of animals and people to ashes. Peasants, townspeople and warriors dived in the river to wash away the poisonous dust.” And from the Ramayana: Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile Charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as the thousand suns Rose in all its splendor... a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds... ...the cloud of smoke rising after its first explosion formed into expanding round circles like the opening of giant parasols... ..It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas, ...The corpses were so burned As to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white. After a few hours All foodstuffs were infected... ...to escape from this fire The soldiers threw themselves in streams To wash themselves and their equipment. This is what is written. Besides painting a basic picture, I tried to keep my opinions about all of this quiet. Sometimes I get bored with hearing opinions. Obviously, I'm biased however. But anyway, there is much much more to discuss here, but this is a start... Perhaps one good question to start with would be, how could people from thousands of years ago describe a nuclear blast with such detail? Also, I'm sorry I didn't put any sources here, but I DIDN't FEEL LIKE IT! Google Vimana. You'll find plenty of text to support what I have written here. -sloth

[ExoByte]

Wow! I don't know what to say to that. Very interesting at the least. I can't understand that at all, though there are many ancient texts that have many relations to things that "shouldn't" of been known of back then. Its quite odd.

[joey11223]

oh yet more evidence for joeys crazy theories that aliens have influenced our development.

[dodobird]

Perhaps one good question to start with would be, how could people from thousands of years ago describe a nuclear blast with such detail? This is very interesting. I never heard of it. What do you think is the answer sloth?

[Dallian]

sloth, see? I told you people would read it. I'm with joey.

[Elwood]

Wow thats amazizngzing. Told you there were more technologically advanced creatures than us!!!!!!!!!! Vimanas are an amazing thing to discuses. I WANT ONE!! Explain this, how could a civilization hundreds of years old, draw JET AIR PLAINS???

[thegnome54]

You know, usually I read ancient texts with a BIG grain of salt, because I'm wary of being lulled into interpreting vagaries to be references to things I know of. However... their description of the vertical explosion, the circles expanding... there really isn't much room for interpretation there. Three possibilities, to me 1) Someone translated this purposefully to suggest a nuclear explosion, when the original text did not necessarily reflect such an event. 2) Assuming that the story is fictional, some natural event which closely mimics the appearance of a nuclear explosion was known of by the author, and the author merely referenced that to illustrate a hugely powerful explosion - a volcano, a hotspot, a meteor, who knows. 3) They did actually witness a nuclear explosion. Which is mind boggling.

[Xaqaria]

All I can say is that if there is a detailed description on their construction then build one. Until then the point is moot. I saw a show once in which a man made a to scale model of a golden aztec figurine that resembled a plane, put an engine and propeller in it and it flew. If he could do it from a figurine then others should be able to follow concise plans. If they can't then I say its bullshit one way or the other.

[thegnome54]

All I can say is that if there is a detailed description on their construction then build one. Until then the point is moot. I saw a show once in which a man made a to scale model of a golden aztec figurine that resembled a plane, put an engine and propeller in it and it flew. If he could do it from a figurine then others should be able to follow concise plans. If they can't then I say its bullshit one way or the other. The plans involve using Mercury plasma as an energy source, which I believe is still beyond current science. The fact that we're incapable of constructing such a device in no way proves that it is impossible.

[Xaqaria]

have you ever used one of these? As the name suggests, they contain plasma, something modern culture has been able to produce since Nikola Tesla did it back around the turn of the last century.

[thegnome54]

have you ever used one of these? As the name suggests, they contain plasma, something modern culture has been able to produce since Nikola Tesla did it back around the turn of the last century. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure those use Xenon and Neon plasmas, not Mercury. I'm not even saying that we can't make Mercury plasma - we probably can - I'm just saying that we don't have the technology to use it as an efficient energy source yet.

[sloth]

All I can say is that if there is a detailed description on their construction then build one. Until then the point is moot. I saw a show once in which a man made a to scale model of a golden aztec figurine that resembled a plane, put an engine and propeller in it and it flew. If he could do it from a figurine then others should be able to follow concise plans. If they can't then I say its bullshit one way or the other. There actually isn't an description detailed enough to recreate, but somewhere out there, I DID see a step by step description of the propulsion system.. but it was obvious that much of it was lost in translation. "The mercury is heated by the heating element" and stuff like that. However.. The newest propulsion systems being developed by NASA today, are electrical engines, 'Ion propulsion'. I'm not sure about the exact details, but it works by "an electron-bombardment technique to ionize mercury atoms. Cesium atoms would become ionized upon contact with a hot tungsten or rhenium surface." I'm not sure exactly what that means, because I'm just ol' sloth, but there are various sites out there that explain it more. I found it hard to google the subject because mercury is a freakin' planet! gOD DAMN IT! , and google is kinda limited in that aspect. I mean, try googling the band 'Live' or the band 'tool.' without including the word 'band'. But anyway, I was able to pull up a little info here http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...p06apr99_2.htm but only because I knew what I was looking for. Basically, NASA IS making propulsion systems based upon mercury, but I believe the mercury is part of the guidance system in vimanas, rather than the actual thrust. On a side note, many people say that much of Hitler's technology during WW2 was influenced by these texts. I offer no proof for that though. Who could? To offer my PERSONAL opinion on it, I do think it's highly possible that there was, at one point, an active relationship between mankind and a higher technological race, and in many ways, this would make more sense then the idea that it took 200,000 years to develop a freakin' LAVA LAMP! Consider these facts: -The earliest homosapien fossils are 200,000 years old, however, we developed virtually all of our technology within the last 2,000 years? What held us back all of those years? That IS a long time. Scientists claim we really haven't evolved much in these 200,000 years. Why didn't we come up with SOMETHING significant during all that time? -IF 80-90% of mankind's population was killed off today, much of our technology would undoubtedly be lost, especially if the people who were left were spread out across the planet. Think about it. Can YOU build a computer? A car? Even a lava lamp!? Shoot, I have trouble figuring out my cable remote. We have gotten quite efficient at USING the technology, and some of us even know how it works, but could anyone actually BUILD this technology from SCRATCH, even if you knew how? If you were to take a car back to the year 20BC, how long would it last before you ran out of fuel? I don't have the capability to extract gasoline from the earths center.. I know EXACTLY how a flash drive works, right down to the binary code, but that doesn't mean I can make something as simple as PLASTIC. If mankind suffered a major catastrophe and lost a large percentage of its population, thousands of years ago, then it would make sense that much of our technology would be lost, so such a theory is a valid one. -Finally, has anyone else ever noticed that much of the earths gasoline reserves are in the most remote and uncomfortable places of the earth? Alaska? The middle east? Why not sunny California? Of course this, also, is no proof, but it does stand as good circumstantial evidence, and it supports a theory, which is all that any of this can ever be. (Perhaps? ) Oh, and by the way, not all vimanas ran on mercury. Some ran on a "Foul smelling yellowish liquid" Up next: Airplane models from before Christ... I'mma make some soup first though. WOOO SOUP!

[thegnome54]

I found it hard to google the subject because mercury is a freakin' planet! gOD DAMN IT! Haha, you should have searched for "Hg".

[sloth]

Hg?

[thegnome54]

Hg? That's the symbol for the element Mercury - you know, like Au is Gold, Pb is lead, Xe is Xenon, etc.

[Xaqaria]

There actually isn't an description detailed enough to recreate, but somewhere out there, I DID see a step by step description of the propulsion system.. but it was obvious that much of it was lost in translation. "The mercury is heated by the heating element" and stuff like that. However.. The newest propulsion systems being developed by NASA today, are electrical engines, 'Ion propulsion'. I'm not sure about the exact details, but it works by "an electron-bombardment technique to ionize mercury atoms. Cesium atoms would become ionized upon contact with a hot tungsten or rhenium surface." I'm not sure exactly what that means, because I'm just ol' sloth, but there are various sites out there that explain it more. I found it hard to google the subject because mercury is a freakin' planet! gOD DAMN IT! , and google is kinda limited in that aspect. I mean, try googling the band 'Live' or the band 'tool.' without including the word 'band'. But anyway, I was able to pull up a little info here http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...p06apr99_2.htm but only because I knew what I was looking for. Basically, NASA IS making propulsion systems based upon mercury, but I believe the mercury is part of the guidance system in vimanas, rather than the actual thrust. On a side note, many people say that much of Hitler's technology during WW2 was influenced by these texts. I offer no proof for that though. Who could? To offer my PERSONAL opinion on it, I do think it's highly possible that there was, at one point, an active relationship between mankind and a higher technological race, and in many ways, this would make more sense then the idea that it took 200,000 years to develop a freakin' LAVA LAMP! Consider these facts: -The earliest homosapien fossils are 200,000 years old, however, we developed virtually all of our technology within the last 2,000 years? What held us back all of those years? That IS a long time. Scientists claim we really haven't evolved much in these 200,000 years. Why didn't we come up with SOMETHING significant during all that time? -IF 80-90% of mankind's population was killed off today, much of our technology would undoubtedly be lost, especially if the people who were left were spread out across the planet. Think about it. Can YOU build a computer? A car? Even a lava lamp!? Shoot, I have trouble figuring out my cable remote. We have gotten quite efficient at USING the technology, and some of us even know how it works, but could anyone actually BUILD this technology from SCRATCH, even if you knew how? If you were to take a car back to the year 20BC, how long would it last before you ran out of fuel? I don't have the capability to extract gasoline from the earths center.. I know EXACTLY how a flash drive works, right down to the binary code, but that doesn't mean I can make something as simple as PLASTIC. If mankind suffered a major catastrophe and lost a large percentage of its population, thousands of years ago, then it would make sense that much of our technology would be lost, so such a theory is a valid one. -Finally, has anyone else ever noticed that much of the earths gasoline reserves are in the most remote and uncomfortable places of the earth? Alaska? The middle east? Why not sunny California? Of course this, also, is no proof, but it does stand as good circumstantial evidence, and it supports a theory, which is all that any of this can ever be. (Perhaps? ) Oh, and by the way, not all vimanas ran on mercury. Some ran on a "Foul smelling yellowish liquid" Up next: Airplane models from before Christ... I'mma make some soup first though. WOOO SOUP! Well lets examine why there are few oil deposits in hospitable places. Notice the most common denominator among all of the locations; aridity. Water, as you may know, is a key ingredient in the continuation and propagation of life. Life is required to decompose old life and recycle the energy stored therein. If vast quantities of the Earth's life was wiped out in a relatively short enough span, dry, arid places would have the hardest time surviving and so the dead life in those areas would go unclaimed by nature. Over the course of billions of years, this unclaimed organic matter containing large amounts of unused energy would like coalesce in to a biological sludge that would eventually then decay down far enough to be a potent brew of latent energy. This is why all fossil fuels are found in the dry places on the planet. Still, I'm not even sure what your point was with this piece of 'evidence.' What does this seemingly logical fact make clear when it comes to ancient technology? As far as catastrophy capable of setting our current culture back to the stone ages, I highly doubt that. I for one could fairly easily produce and harness electricity from scratch. Copper has been used for over 10,000 years and thats really the hardest raw component to lay your hands on when it comes to building electrical systems. A society who had even one in a thousand who understood the simple concepts behind technology and survived would find ways to build it back up in some rudimentary form within a generation, let alone thousands of years. You think humans came up with nothing signifigant before modern technology? How about the skills of survival? How about the idea of tools at all? These are not self evident things without prior knowledge of them. Who are you to say how long advancement should take when starting from a zero point?

[sloth]

Well lets examine why there are few oil deposits in hospitable places. Notice the most common denominator among all of the locations; aridity. Water, as you may know, is a key ingredient in the continuation and propagation of life. Life is required to decompose old life and recycle the energy stored therein. If vast quantities of the Earth's life was wiped out in a relatively short enough span, dry, arid places would have the hardest time surviving and so the dead life in those areas would go unclaimed by nature. Over the course of billions of years, this unclaimed organic matter containing large amounts of unused energy would like coalesce in to a biological sludge that would eventually then decay down far enough to be a potent brew of latent energy. This is why all fossil fuels are found in the dry places on the planet. Still, I'm not even sure what your point was with this piece of 'evidence.' What does this seemingly logical fact make clear when it comes to ancient technology? As far as catastrophy capable of setting our current culture back to the stone ages, I highly doubt that. I for one could fairly easily produce and harness electricity from scratch. Copper has been used for over 10,000 years and thats really the hardest raw component to lay your hands on when it comes to building electrical systems. A society who had even one in a thousand who understood the simple concepts behind technology and survived would find ways to build it back up in some rudimentary form within a generation, let alone thousands of years. You think humans came up with nothing signifigant before modern technology? How about the skills of survival? How about the idea of tools at all? These are not self evident things without prior knowledge of them. Who are you to say how long advancement should take when starting from a zero point? Who am I to say how long advancement should take? What, are you offended somehow? Why are you so angry and offensive about this? I'm half tempted to not respond at all, because instead of just stating an opinion, you have become slightly offensive about it. However, I'll play along with your RANT. Well lets examine why there are few oil deposits in hospitable places. Notice the most common denominator among all of the locations; aridity. Water, as you may know, is a key ingredient in the continuation and propagation of life. Life is required to decompose old life and recycle the energy stored therein. If vast quantities of the Earth's life was wiped out in a relatively short enough span, dry, arid places would have the hardest time surviving and so the dead life in those areas would go unclaimed by nature. Over the course of billions of years, this unclaimed organic matter containing large amounts of unused energy would like coalesce in to a biological sludge that would eventually then decay down far enough to be a potent brew of latent energy. This is why all fossil fuels are found in the dry places on the planet. I love when people state these things as if they know them for complete and utter fact. The words, 'I know...' are best spoken by fools. I pointed out this 'evidence' (Since you disdainfully put it in parenthesis.) as an interesting concept. I did not state that this was absolute proof of anything. In fact, I stated that it wasn't... clearly. You, however, stated a FACT! "This IS why all fossil fuels are found in the dry places on the planet." So I challenge you to prove your point. Please provide proof for your FACTS. Definite proof. Not links. Not sources... PROOF! :-p Still, I'm not even sure what your point was with this piece of 'evidence.' What does this seemingly logical fact make clear when it comes to ancient technology? This supports the theory that ancient civilizations did exist, and used fossil fuels, since they would clear out the more habitable areas of the planet first. Which it does. Just because you can provide an alternate THEORY, doesn't mean that it suddenly no longer supports my theory. However, you did not state it as a theory. You stated it as a FACT, and one of the main rules of persuasive speeches is that the burden of proof lies in the speaker, so I again challenge you to PROVE your FACTS. As far as catastrophy capable of setting our current culture back to the stone ages, I highly doubt that. I never made the argument that a catastrophy set us back to the stone ages YESTERDAY. I simply stated that it is POSSIBLE that THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO some technology got lost. If this technology was given to us from an outside force, be it aliens or what have you, it would even easier be lost. Why are you arguing that it's not possible to be set back to the stone ages, from year 2000 AD? I agree with what you are saying, but who are you arguing with? I never said that it WAS possible to be 'set back to the stone ages.' I said that 'much of our technology would undoubtedly be lost.' But I did not say 'We'll go back to killing sabretooth tigers with pointy rocks tied to fuggin' sticks!' Are you confused? *SIGH* I for one could fairly easily produce and harness electricity from scratch. Please explain. Where will you mine for metals? How will you extract the metals necessary for conductivity? What other materials will you require, and how will you extract them from the earth, and where will you go to get them? What tools will you need, and how will you create them? Keep in mind that you said "From scratch." Keep in mind, as well, that using existing components lying around your house would be suggesting that ACCORDING TO MY THEORY the people of the past had these materials readily available as well, which is NOT what my theory states. The problem with putting your own terms into someone else's theory is that it's impossible to argue the same theory afterwards since you have changed the theory in an attempt to make it sound less credible. So, ignoring your next retarded point, that: Copper has been used for over 10,000 years and thats really the hardest raw component to lay your hands on when it comes to building electrical systems. ...which has nothing to do with what happened THOUSANDS of YEARS ago... Please explain how you would create electricity from scratch, under the terms of my theory: thousands of years ago, and with no readily available materials. A society who had even one in a thousand who understood the simple concepts behind technology and survived would find ways to build it back up in some rudimentary form within a generation, let alone thousands of years. Here is another FACT that needs to be proven. Please prove this. ..Oh! Then discredit the rest of the evidence for my theory that you didn't even mention in your post. ...Damn Knowitall. -sloth

[Xaqaria]

Ahh, who's getting mad? Would it be the kid who's fun ideas about aliens are being questioned? I certainly am enjoying myself. So you won't accept sources of information. How exactly do you expect me to prove anything to you aside from coming to your house and handing it to you? As you may read my posts and see for yourself, I don't believe I've ever used the words "I know." The fact that fossil fuels are located in unwelcoming places hardly points to your conclusion, as the ancient civilizations you are talking about are from the very places we find oil. Iraq, Iran, venezuela, texas, alaska... all of these places house some of the oldest civilizations on the planet, which also happen to be some of the most primitive of all civilizations; but of course aliens gave them all advanced technology and they just lost it. Okay, to make simple electronic components from scratch; I live in Vermont. There is a copper mine in Corinth, Vermont. Copper melts at 1980 degrees farenheit and a simple wood forge can reach temperatures of 4000 degrees. The copper would of course need to be refined to be conductive enough for modern electronics but will still conduct electricity enough for a simple generator. A basic generator consists of an iron magnet surrounded by a coil of copper wire. Rotating the magnet causes the magnetic field to push electricity through the wire. All you really need to make a magnet is to rub two pieces of iron together long enough in the same direction, and of course there is an old iron mine in a town I grew up in; waitsfield. Also in my opinion, 2000 AD may well have been the stone ages for all the technology you are claiming might have existed 6000 years before then. What you are trying to pass off as an interesting idea is that human beings had nuclear weapons, antigravity flying machines and lasers and then reverted back to a point in which they didn't even understand electricity. I'm simply claiming that your interesting idea is actually just a fairy tale pursued by children who think its a neat idea that aliens gave our ancestors marvelous technology and then they happened to just lose it somewhere.

[sloth]

Ahh, who's getting mad? Would it be the kid who's fun ideas about aliens are being questioned? I certainly am enjoying myself. Blah blah.. You're enjoying trying to ruin my fun little thread here? What an ass. So you won't accept sources of information. How exactly do you expect me to prove anything to you aside from coming to your house and handing it to you? As you may read my posts and see for yourself, I don't believe I've ever used the words "I know." I don't expect you to be able to prove anything to me. That's my point. You CAN'T prove ANYthing but you're going to keeep trying, since you've stated EVERYthing as if it was fact, because you seem to be a know it all. I don't know why it's so important to you to prove my theory wrong, anyway. I never said it was fact. Why are you so competitive about this? It's just a stupid theory. I didn't expect anyone to start getting RUDE about it. Is this an attempt to make yourself feel smart, old man? I am sick and tired of people who want to dispute EVERYthing they can because they think their opinions are important somehow. You may not have used the words, 'I know' but you stated plenty of things as fact and absolute, as if any other way is impossible. You also only used the words 'In my opinion' one time. I love a good debate. It would have been cool if you had said something like, 'That's an interesting theory, however, I have found these flaws in what you are saying.' Couldn't you have said something remotely nice about anything I said? Not once have I told you that you were wrong. Had you stated your opinion, then I could have continued this debate. But you didn't. You stated everything as though it were cold hard fact. You didn't acknowledge ANYthing that I said as being remotely possible, which it is. It's an insult. So I cannot debate this any longer. You've left me no room. According to you, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE for anything I have suggested to have happened unless you say it did. Stating that my theory is a "fairy tale pursued by children" is completely ignorant, because anyone who thinks that they are THAT WISE is foolish. It's also insulting, by the way. Not once did I state anything as fact, except that these things are written in the Ramayana. I merely shared a fun theory, which you became offensive and stuck up about. Why? In the end, I don't even care. This is retarded. I only stated my theory as a side note, because somebody asked me my personal opinion. I didn't even ask you for yours. This is why I hesitated to state my idea to begin with. I knew some know it all would jump in and try to sound smart. So, forget it! I don't care what you know anyway. You've still proven nothing, and neither have I. The only difference is that I didn't state EVERYthing I said as fact, so it was never my intention to prove anything. Remember: opinions are like assholes. Besides, I've read history. You can stop spouting off the history and science you learned in highschool today. Besides, Historically, science has always been wrong. But Whatever! I'm merely stating another possible theory that someone asked me to state, and now I'm done. I'm going to continue with my thread now, because this is retarded.

[sloth]

"European scholarship regards human civilization as a recent progression starting yesterday with the Fiji islander, and ending today with Rockefeller, conceiving ancient culture as necessarily half savage culture." It is a superstition of modern thought that the march of knowledge has always been linear." "Our vision of "prehistory" is terribly inadequate. We have not yet rid our minds from the hold of a one-and-only God or one-and-only Book, and now a one-and-only Science." ~ wrote Shri Aurobindo Ghosh (1872-1950) most original philosopher of modern India. “The ancient Hindus could navigate the air, and not only navigate it, but fight battles in it like so many war-eagles combating for the domination of the clouds. To be so perfect in aeronautics, they must have known all the arts and sciences related to the science, including the strata and currents of the atmosphere, the relative temperature, humidity, density and specific gravity of the various gases...” ~ Col. Henry S Olcott (1832 – 1907) American author, attorney, philosopher, and cofounder of the Theosophical Society in a lecture in Allahabad, in 1881. “Can we not read into them some justification for the belief that some former forgotten race of men attained not only to the knowledge we have so recently won, but also to the power that is not yet ours?” ~ Frederick Soddy(1877 - 1956) English born scientist. Studied in the University of Oxford. From 1900 to 1902 and was Chemistry assistant in the University of McGill, Montreal, where he co-worked with Rutherford. He received in 1921 a Nobel Prize Laureate in Chemistry. He awarded the Nobel prize in 1921 - ""for his contributions to our knowledge of the chemistry of radioactive substances, and his investigations into the origin and nature of isotopes" In 1903, with Sir William Ramsay, Soddy verified that the decay of radium produced helium. “The Mahabharata - an ancient Indian epic compiled 3000 years ago - contains a reference to a terrible weapon. Regrettably, in our age of the atomic bomb, the description of this weapon exploding will not appear to be an exaggeration: '.... a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire (was) let off...'. That was how this weapon was perceived. The consequences of its use also evoke involuntary associations. '... This makes the bodies of the dead unidentifiable. ... The survivors lose their nails and hair, and their food becomes unfit for eating. For several subsequent years the Sun, the stars and the sky remain shrouded with clouds and bad weather'. "This weapon was known as the Weapon of Brahma or the Flame of Indra......". ~ Alexander Gorbovsky ( ?) an expert at the Russian Munitions Agency My favorite: Ahh, but I'd be pretty silly to study to be a physicist in college if I was trying to disprove science, wouldn't I? Historically, science has always been wrong.

[Umbrasquall]

Hmm, if humans had techology long ago such as airplanes and nuclear weapons. Shouldn't there be some traces of that technology left? I mean if you're advanced enough to build airplanes then you'd definitely have concrete/steel buildings/skyscrapers, and if those existed then the ruins should still be here. I see your point though. I've always wondered why humans wasted the first 200,000 years doing nothing and suddenly in the last 100-200 years developed almost all of modern technology. But now that I've seen Transformers I know that it is all thanks to Megatron. And by the way, let's try to keep it civil in here guys.

[Xaqaria]

Hmm, if humans had techology long ago such as airplanes and nuclear weapons. Shouldn't there be some traces of that technology left? I mean if you're advanced enough to build airplanes then you'd definitely have concrete/steel buildings/skyscrapers, and if those existed then the ruins should still be here. I see your point though. I've always wondered why humans wasted the first 200,000 years doing nothing and suddenly in the last 100-200 years developed almost all of modern technology. But now that I've seen Transformers I know that it is all thanks to Megatron. And by the way, let's try to keep it civil in here guys. Actually the progress of technology can be easily plotted on an exponential scale using what is called the law of accelerated returns. it looks something like this: Basically how this works is, when starting from scratch technology is developed very slowly, but once you have certain simple tools built, you make the next level of technology that utilizes those tools go a little faster. This pattern can be found to increase at an exponential rate. At the beginning of the graph technology can be seen to progress slowly, but once the bell of the curve is passed, it will advance quicker until eventually it is going faster than we can keep up with it.

[Xaqaria]

Sloth, you are a hypocrite and a moron. I've never put forth any of my ideas as facts, but the first post of yours that I responded directly to most certainly did. "Consider these FACTS" you said, and then proceeded to regurgitate a series of half truths and ideas you concocted yourself that had little or nothing to do with the current topic. Get your 'FACTS' straight before you get huffy and accuse people of sounding like they know everything. Perhaps you think thats my stand point only because you can see that I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you do.

[sloth]

Sloth, you are a hypocrite and a moron. Are you a child? That's ad hominem. How do I respond to that? You're a poopy pants. *shrug* I've never put forth any of my ideas as facts, "This is why all fossil fuels are found in the dry places on the planet." "A society who had even one in a thousand who understood the simple concepts behind technology and survived would find ways to build it back up in some rudimentary form within a generation." "Your interesting idea is actually just a fairy tale pursued by children who think its a neat idea that aliens gave our ancestors marvelous technology and then they happened to just lose it somewhere." ...What are you trying to prove anyway? What's the purpose of all of this? I already said it was just a theory. but the first post of yours that I responded directly to most certainly did. "Consider these FACTS" you said, and then proceeded to regurgitate a series of half truths and ideas you concocted yourself *sigh* No. Actually, everything I wrote came from these sites: http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm http://www.2atoms.com/weird/ancient/plane.htm http://www.altarcheologie.nl/index1.html? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushpaka_Vimanastrange_technologies/World%20Mysteries%20-%20Strange%20Artifacts,%20Ancient%20Flying%20Machi nes.htm http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc116.htm http://www.crystalinks.com/vimana.html http://www.huge-entity.com/2005/10/a...g-machine.html http://www.crystalinks.com/vedic.html http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm http://fusionanomaly.net/vimana.html http://www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/viman1.html http://www.atlantisquest.com/Vimana.html http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm http://www.2atoms.com/weird/ancient/plane.htm ...but whatever. that had little or nothing to do with the current topic. What's the current topic? I thought I set the current topic as ancient technology. What were YOU talking about all this time? Get your 'FACTS' straight before you get huffy and accuse people of sounding like they know everything. Perhaps you think thats my stand point only because you can see that I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you do. Yeah.. That totally didn't just make you sound like a know-it-all asshole. Now... SHUT UP!! I DON'T CARE! Damn it! You know what? You win! You're a winner! Congratulations! You're totally smarter than me. Now leave me and my thread alone. Go do something fun with your life. Go prove to other people how INCREDIBLY INGENIUS you are, and let me get on with my thread, like I said I was going to do last night. I already had the next post written up when you decided to talk MORE about THIS. You have totally made your point. I GET IT! Okay? I'm going to move on with my thread now. ...okaaaayy?

[dodobird]

Up next: Airplane models from before Christ... I'mma make some soup first though. WOOO SOUP! Come on, I'm sure you finished the soup slothy, lets here about those airplane models!