I'd like to see you do that, Mark. |
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Determinism will never be refuted. |
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I'd like to see you do that, Mark. |
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Yeah, there are a lot of misconceptions going around. |
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The two go hand in hand. I support both of them. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
I think this question is best worded with an analogy. How about this? |
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Yes, exactly. Thank you. If there is any kind of answer to that question, I really want to know what it is. I have never once come across it. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
You're operating under the assumption of a closed system with a fixed field of variables--conditions that could, theoretically, be quantified and duplicated in every particular. We have no evidence that our universe is such a system, and the difficulty of creating even a simplistic, subatomic closed system within our universe suggests otherwise. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
No, it's completely impossible to duplicate the conditions. At the very least, time would have passed. Also, if any of the matter in the universe has moved, the sum of the gravitational forces on the balls would be different. That's why I said "go back in time and redo it". |
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I don't think you understand the question you're asking. Regardless of whether you "rewind time," you're assuming there are distinct, mechanistic forces at work. Your unexamined assumptions amount to circular logic on the order of, "If God gave us a book revealing His word, how can you doubt He exists?" You're asking me, "If the universe is rigidly deterministic, how can you doubt determinism?" |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
You and Taosaur dodged my question. I know you know what it is by now. What is the answer? |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 03-28-2008 at 04:17 AM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Oops, now I'm being redundant too. Theres too much of that I think. |
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As Mark pointed out, the impossibility of the situation does not prove the illogic of the hypothetical question. Suppose I ask you, "If a genie gave you three wishes, what would your three wishes be?" It would not be legitimate for you to dodge the question by saying, "Genies are not real." The question involves a hypothetical. Hypothetial questions have legitimate answers even when they involve impossible scenarios. Plus, I have asked the question several different ways. I am not just asking about rewinding a pool shot. That just represents what I am asking. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
The universe isn't binary? |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
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Not that I know of, and definitely not in any sense that has relevance to this discussion. Even if there are a trillion incarnations of this universe acting in different ways from each other, I am asking about how a very specific cause can have more than one specific effect without differing variables being introduced. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
An exact state can have many possible results, but only one actual one. |
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We don't even have to be talking about time. I am asking about the relationship between cause and effect, period. It appears that a state of matter causes the next state of matter in time, as illustrated by physics and chemical equations, but even if that is not the case, I am trying to understand how X, and only X, can cause Y but also Z and what would cause X to result in Z instead of Y. Try very hard not to change the subject. I am really interested in the answer to my question which I have presented about ten different ways now. I have been asking it for half of my life, and I have yet to come across even an attempt at the answer. |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 03-28-2008 at 05:51 AM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
The only assumption that the question is making is that there are no truly random factors involved. |
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Variation is "caused" by complexity. I'm not sure why you're so frustrated. Randomness is a calculation of our inability to calculate or predict. Of course the past is "objective" in that its determined. That doesn't imply determinism in the future dimension |
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I know it's been said before, but quantum mechanics does have an answer for UM's question, at least to a considerable extent (experiment can never totally prove any theory, but it should at least be the basis of understanding reality). |
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Last edited by R.D.735; 03-28-2008 at 10:36 PM.
Sorry for the bold assertions and then the half finished explanations. Busy week. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-29-2008 at 12:31 AM.
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