Complete certainty of the end...

[Truthbearer]

The other day I had a thought that I have had a million times before, but for some reason it affected me more than ever. It was rather painful and it caused my knees to literally cave in. I kind of had a miny emotional breakdown after it, but nothing that was completely out of my control. Anyway, I was thinking of some conversations I have had when I suddenly though "what if there is nothing after death". In one second I sort of have a vision which summed up everything I have thought about the subject. How it would be like if there was no more time, as I would not be there to sense it. I would not be able to percieve darkness either, or have any sort of interaction or response to it or anything else. I would just be no more. I have thought of this several times(even at this moment) but that single moment really just made me crumbled down. This leads me to the question I wanted to expand here: What if you were completely certain that there was nothing at all after death, that you just ceized to be? How would you live your life if you somehow knew this, if you had evidence beyond any doubt that death was indeed the end of everything?

[Scwigglie]

Ask bradybaker, that's exactly what he believes. I'm actually curious to read what he thinks.. I have those thoughts sometimes too, and it depresses me every time. But.. how can so many people on this planet believe in an afterlife if there isn't one? I personally don't think it's a coincidence that the majority of the world believes in one. Edit: Oh, and to answer your question: I would hide in a dark room and cry insanely for days every time a friend or family member died.. I would go outside and take in a deep breath of air, savoring the sensation before I went on with my business.. but I guess mainly I'd just look at people and mourn.

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by Scwigglie Ask bradybaker, that's exactly what he believes. I'm actually curious to read what he thinks.. I have those thoughts sometimes too, and it depresses me every time. But.. how can so many people on this planet believe in an afterlife if there isn't one? I personally don't think it's a coincidence that the majority of the world believes in one. I believe in one. But then again I sometimes think, do I believe in it cause I have some basis to do so, or is it just cause it is more convinient for me to do so?

[Scwigglie]

Sure there's a basis.. all the mysteries of the universe, for one. For all ya know, if you take a space ship and travel far enough, you'll bump into an Angel pub. And all those stories of miracles.. also, I don't attend church or anything, but sometimes I walk in just to have something to do.. and I feel such a wonderful, calm, divine sort of energy. It reassures me every time.

[gameover]

But.. how can so many people on this planet believe in an afterlife if there isn't one? [/b] Very easily. How could so many people believe the world was flat and have it not be true? Well if it were true, and proven that I would cease to exist after this life(which I believe to an extent) then what do I care? I wont be around to care. But As sure as I am about anything, I am sure that my conciousness will not die with my body. Im sure that "I", my ego, the unit that is me, will die, but my conciousness cannot be destroyed. But I already went over this in the Athiems thread.

[Belisarius]

I would committ suicide. I just can't see how life would be worth it. How I could matter when I would cease to exist. I would lose all self-worth.

[Scwigglie]

Very easily. How could so many people believe the world was flat and have it not be true? [/b] Hey that's different though, cuz that's talking about something that could easily be proven. Well.. not easily at the time, but you know what I mean. Totally possible.

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by Belisarius I would committ suicide. I just can't see how life would be worth it. How I could matter when I would cease to exist. I would lose all self-worth. That is what I thought at first...but I don't really want to ceize to exist just yet, even if it is all worthless...

[exoticpemguin]

Originally posted by Truthbearer The other day I had a thought that I have had a million times before, but for some reason it affected me more than ever. It was rather painful and it caused my knees to literally cave in. I kind of had a miny emotional breakdown after it, but nothing that was completely out of my control. Anyway, I was thinking of some conversations I have had when I suddenly though \"what if there is nothing after death\". In one second I sort of have a vision which summed up everything I have thought about the subject. How it would be like if there was no more time, as I would not be there to sense it. I would not be able to percieve darkness either, or have any sort of interaction or response to it or anything else. I would just be no more. I have thought of this several times(even at this moment) but that single moment really just made me crumbled down. This leads me to the question I wanted to expand here: What if you were completely certain that there was nothing at all after death, that you just ceized to be? How would you live your life if you somehow knew this, if you had evidence beyond any doubt that death was indeed the end of everything? I have thought of this MANY times before. I do beleive that there is SOMETHING after death...maybe endless dreaming...somehow.... Originally posted by Truthbearer I believe in one. But then again I sometimes think, do I believe in it cause I have some basis to do so, or is it just cause it is more convinient for me to do so? Yes,me too.

[LewisM]

I think Ive had that sort of feeling before - except thinking about myself and why 'I am'. Although if I 'wasnt', then I would just be someone else. Not the the place to explain... Anyway I honestly think I wouldn't change dramatically, because Im so unsure of what is at the end anyway. I'd be very disappointed, that's for sure ;D

[Lucius]

When I look at the world(and I dont mean the crap that people cause) I can do no other then believe in something greater. But if that would be the case, I would do what I would do anyway, try help others and ease their suffering, so at least my life will have been to some use, so a few others might have a better one. And of course enjoy so much that this planet has to offer and stubbornly keep believing that there is more to it, because its all so beautiful.

[Neil]

Originally posted by Scwigglie But.. how can so many people on this planet believe in an afterlife if there isn't one? I personally don't think it's a coincidence that the majority of the world believes in one. That is very silly and very illogical! If there was no existence after death, then I think I'd feel very alive, and would want to go out and experience as many of the great things life has still to offer. In the recent movie, Troy, Achilles says that it is the Gods who worship the humans, because humans are mortals. If you can't die, you can't live.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Well, let's see what would happen if we applied this logic to everday living! "Well all of my friends smoke and say it's cool...so it must be!" "Ah, this movie is great because all the reviewers say so!" "The Hummer is a great car because everyone says it'll make me look good!" Oh wait....

[Scwigglie]

You guys, when I said that I wasn't talking about anything tangible, like a hummer, movie, smoking, the world being flat, that sort of thing. It's not, "Well, since my friend thinks it's cool, then I guess it must be cool." I was talking about FAITH, okay? Faith that there is something up there, and I completely resent the "that's so silly" comment. Come on, people, you're being shallow.

[Neil]

I didn't mean to upset you by calling your comment "silly." You said that its not a coincidence that so many people believe in the afterlife, as if that was evidence alone that it existed. But surely you know that something just can't exist if enough people believed in it. You said that its about faith. But faith doesn't require any other mind than your own. Faith is a personal thing and you must find it for yourself, if you wish. I also said that your comment was illogical. I don't think you should be offended by this, because faith, by definition, is a belief that does not rest on logic or proof. But my personal opinion is that "faith" is a word. And like many words, it describes something that is abstract and not actually real. I occasionally watch the God channel for kicks. And to be brutally honest, I see people who deep down, behind all their rote-learned scriptures, at the very centre of their minds, have doubts. I think that every single human who is alive today has a deep down, uneasy DOUBT about God. Doubt is normal. Don't be afraid of it and don't deny it. Embrace it! But seriously, if this doubt was removed, and I knew for sure that I would not live on, I'm pretty sure I would be happy to go out with a bang. I'd suddenly feel really alive. I think many people take life for granted. For example, my brother sometimes just lies in bed all day on a Sunday, even if its a beautiful day. But he could be outside enjoying the sunshine, and making friends and having fun and listening to music and so on. CARPE DIEM BABY!!!

[Scwigglie]

Yeah, I agree that we all have doubt (though I imagine that's hard to admit for many).. it's great to be open-minded, at least deep down, and realizing that you can't know everything. I like what you said about faith. I suppose I'm just a strong believer in the power of faith, not just my own but others' as well. I think it's a beautiful thing, and completely different from Joseph's examples. Having said all that.. I think I just realized I am one of the most open-minded people when it comes to what's going to happen when we die. But I refuse to believe that we snuff out like a candle flame. That's the only exception.

[Neil]

Wow, what a werid coincidence! My random playlist is playing "The Spirit Carries On" by Dream Theater. 8)

[Scwigglie]

Hehe! It's a sign, whoo!... Or a coincidence. But a nice one, nonetheless.

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by Neil Wow, what a werid coincidence! My random playlist is playing \"The Spirit Carries On\" by Dream Theater. 8) That is indeed one of my favorite songs in all the world!!! I tried to figure if it was just because of what it says, if it because I wish things were indeed the way the record describes them. But after thinking hard about it I realized that it wasn't just that, but the lyrics and music are just perfect. The way the narrator deals with his discovery is just amazing. That record is my favorite record ever, followed closely by SCIENCE by incubus...

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Scwigglie Sure there's a basis.. all the mysteries of the universe, for one. For all ya know, if you take a space ship and travel far enough, you'll bump into an Angel pub. And all those stories of miracles.. also, I don't attend church or anything, but sometimes I walk in just to have something to do.. and I feel such a wonderful, calm, divine sort of energy. It reassures me every time. Do you assume that mysteries of the universe will always remain mysteries? You believe in a God called the "god of the gaps". Refer to the "Atheism article" thread. Stories of miracles, thats all they are, stories. And as for the angel pub theory, there isn't much I can say about that. ---------------------------------- I think that so many people believe in an afterlife because the majority of people just accept what they are taught at face value without putting any further thought into the issue. I think that the idea of an afterlife originated with our self-awareness. When we became aware of our existence, developed foresight and abstract thinking skills, we came to the realization that our existence will come to an end. The majority of other animals on Earth have no concept of death because they are not self aware, the live purely in the moment. Along with this realization comes fear, the fear of non-existenence. As we all know, fear leads to irrational thinking. These early self-aware humans, as primitive as they were, probably did their best find some way to relieve their fears. Bingo, thats where religion came from. Since then, this behaviour has become a cultural staple. Unfortunately for today's believers, there is less and less room in our world for God. So they are forced cling to abstract thoughts of what God could be, not wanting to admit what all their reason and logic is screaming at them. Well thats just my opinion, take it or leave it. I suggest everyone read the Atheism article for more information. Opposite of Scwigglie, I believe that our existence is just snuffed out upon death. Some people think that is depressing or scary or whatever but definitely not me. It's just the way it is. I only have one shot to do what I can with the time I have, so I go for it.

[Scwigglie]

Do you assume that mysteries of the universe will always remain mysteries? You believe in a God called the \"god of the gaps\". Refer to the \"Atheism article\" thread. [/b] Now where did I say that, huh? You assume too much from the things I say. Don't read inbetween the lines if there's not even anything above or below to begin with. Stories of miracles, thats all they are, stories. [/b] And how do you claim to know that? Did you read an article by some hot-shot scientist that said, \"Yeah uh, my grandmother said she had this and that miraculously happen, and uh, I say that she's lying.\" And as for the angel pub theory, there isn't much I can say about that. [/b] Not a theory. An example. How about we send you out into the universe, and you can come back and tell us the results, okay?

[bradybaker]

I am officially disregarding everything that Scwigglie has said or ever will say because it isn't worth the frustration of dealing with.

[Scwigglie]

I'm not getting frustrated.. well, not too frustrated anyway. Wow that was really rude. I think you're just so angry because not that many people on here share your beliefs.. everyone else seems to be a bit more open-minded, ya know? 'Kay look, PM me, okay? We can.. I don't know, talk about something. I don't want you to be so upset with me. I just.. can't share your beliefs.. and I'm trying to stand up for mine, that's all.

[jlambie]

I'm relaying this reply to Scwigglie's post on behalf of bradybaker due to his vow to never respond to anything she says ever again: I am not angry because many people do not share my beliefs, believe me I am quite used to people disagreeing with me I get frustrated because your replys follow no form of reason or logic whatsoever. You continue to say the same things over and over again no matter how I respond. All you say is that miracles exist because your grandma says so and its impossbile for an afterlife not to exist But you provide no actual empirical evidence to support these claims while I provide much to support my own.

[Scwigglie]

Grandma? Well that's the difference, I guess. I don't rely on science. It's hard for you to see why I can believe things if there's no data, but that's the fundamental difference between someone like me and someone like you. WOW I'm sorry that I'm causing a freaking uproar. Don't lose sleep. Yeesh.