Thread: Pondering why existence exists.

Originally Posted by Xei

Well, I'm inclined to think there is a logical reason for the universe existing... simply because I think it's contradictory for anything that is not a consequence of logic to occur; that is to say that everything is a consequence of logic, otherwise it could not have happened.

But even the whole concept of logic, and the fact that it works and what 'working' or making sense, or being 'true' or anything even means, is all part of the universe.

I'm not so sure. The universe is essentially time and space and energy. I can't think of anything else.

But many discoveries made in the study of logic are completely independent of these three things, for example Godel's incompleteness theorem. Hence they are independent of the universe.

Originally Posted by Xei

I'm not so sure. The universe is essentially time and space and energy. I can't think of anything else.

But many discoveries made in the study of logic are completely independent of these three things, for example Godel's incompleteness theorem. Hence they are independent of the universe.

Definitions of universe are colliding here, moithinks.

I'm thinking "All that exists" and by definition there is nothing that isn't.

I think you're referring to like, this space we're in now, and it's physical properties.

Ispose.


Have you had any offers yet?

Yes, I'm referring to the physical universe, of which there may be many.

I suppose you are right. There will be no why for the totality of existence, that would be contradictory. But there is a why for this physical universe.

And if you mean Uni offers, yeah, I got Bath, Warwick, UCL, Imperial, and Cambridge.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yes, I'm referring to the physical universe, of which there may be many.

I suppose you are right. There will be no why for the totality of existence, that would be contradictory. But there is a why for this physical universe.

And if you mean Uni offers, yeah, I got Bath, Warwick, UCL, Imperial, and Cambridge.

I'd agree with you entirely about that; on the physical universe.

Very nice. To study what? And which shall you choose?

Studying maths, with the intent to go into computational neuroscience... yeah, fairly obscure really, but in my view it actually leads to answering one of the last great mysteries of the universe (how the mind works), which is currently a field in its total infancy, waiting for some kind of conceptual breakthrough.

Cambridge is my first choice (no brainer really), but the offer is steep (AAAA, 1,1 in STEP II and III which only 60% or so of offer holders achieve)... I think I'll put Imperial down as my reserve but I don't really like the idea of London.

Originally Posted by Xei

Studying maths, with the intent to go into computational neuroscience... yeah, fairly obscure really, but in my view it actually leads to answering one of the last great mysteries of the universe (how the mind works), which is currently a field in its total infancy, waiting for some kind of conceptual breakthrough.

Cambridge is my first choice (no brainer really), but the offer is steep (AAAA, 1,1 in STEP II and III which only 60% or so of offer holders achieve)... I think I'll put Imperial down as my reserve but I don't really like the idea of London.

You should(London). Its good.

Three of mine are in London. UCL, LSE, KCL-all for philosophy.

Hah, nice one... if I fail STEP and don't get As in all Further Maths modules, I could potentially end up at UCL...

The problem I have with London is that it's so expensive... and the general psychology of Londoners is very cold, or so I hear. And I don't think I like big noisy cities. I still need to visit Imperial though, so we'll see.

AAA for you, is it?

Originally Posted by Xei

Hah, nice one... if I fail STEP and don't get As in all Further Maths modules, I could potentially end up at UCL...

The problem I have with London is that it's so expensive... and the general psychology of Londoners is very cold, or so I hear. And I don't think I like big noisy cities. I still need to visit Imperial though, so we'll see.

AAA for you, is it?

I love big cities. Especially the run down parts. hurm.

it is. :[

hurm.


We'll see, I suppose.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

The thought of something being created out of absolutely nothing just doesn't sound feasible. I'm not ruling it out - but I think the answer lies within the nature of time. The way humans perceive time may drive us to completely biased points of view. Even completely biased questions.

Existence itself is not limited to time. The basic subtance of existence is beyond time and therefore something like "eternal". Time is just one more form of existence.

Why existence exists is an extremely difficult question to answer. I think it probably has something to do with how it is the opposite of nonexistence. There must "be" at least nonexistence, and nonexistence is based on the principle of existence. I say "at least" there, but I don't think there really "is" nonexistence. "Is" and "nonexistence" cannot go together. It is an oxymoron. But what created that principle? The "why's" can go forever. But why?

I think the answer probably transcends language as we know it, and I think the ancient Taoists, Buddhists, and Hindus got really close to the answer.

Maybe these things will become more clear to us as the human race evolves and hopefully proggresses as more spiritual people. Not expecting that anytime in my lifetime tho.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Sometimes I wonder why existence exists. I find myself wondering how our universe was created. Where did all the matter come from? What created whatever created our universe? You could literally ask the what created the thing that created question infinite times.

If you could demonstrate nonexistence, then you might have some ground to work from with the whole "Why do things exist?" angle.

They exist because there is no such thing as nonexistence, therefore everything exists.

I could also throw in some borrowed line like "A circle has no beginning, so why does the universe need one?" or something like that for philosophical effect, too.

Technically, everything is just arbitrarily named based on our observations. Everything is really an infinitely high resolution system of systems off into infinity. Also, nothing doesn't exist, so existence has always existed. It doesn't have/need a beginning.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

They exist because there is no such thing as nonexistence, therefore everything exists.

What is the cause of that principle?

Kind of makes since.
But how can somebody prove that the non-existant exists or not?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What is the cause of that principle?

Physical nonexistence, that is. Theoretical existence varies.

Everything exists because nothing doesn't exist.

The cause? You cannot destroy energy.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Physical nonexistence, that is. Theoretical existence varies.

Everything exists because nothing doesn't exist.

The cause? You cannot destroy energy.

You are talking about specific forms of existence. I am talking about why there is existence in the first place. It seems that any answer you give would have to be a form of existence, which makes circular arguments seem almost inevitable when trying to get to the bottom of why there is existence at all.

i dont think there is a reason for existance.
maybe it just is.

Originally Posted by Fableflame

i dont think there is a reason for existance.
maybe it just is.

Good man.

Whatever answer can be given is true. Existence from a perspective of everything, including nothing, is all inclusive.

"Pondering why existence exists", as if you are separate from existence.
The answer is the question, a fish is a bird and a mountain is a winnie the pooh.

K.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Sometimes I wonder why existence exists. I find myself wondering how our universe was created. Where did all the matter come from? What created whatever created our universe? You could literally ask the what created the thing that created question infinite times.

I suppose if you went back far enough in time, something had to be created from absolute nothingness. I don't buy the whole, it always existed thing. Is anyone else on the same page?

It helps to realize that time is false to begin with, and causality doesn't apply to the universe. Causality applies within the Universe, to a limited extent, but not the the Universe itself, which would then need infinite causes for it to exist. In the totality, everything has a Source of Divinity, and nothing is an accident. This can all be subjectively revealed, however one has to quiet the mind, knowing that the truth is beyond all thoughts and reasoning.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You are talking about specific forms of existence. I am talking about why there is existence in the first place. It seems that any answer you give would have to be a form of existence, which makes circular arguments seem almost inevitable when trying to get to the bottom of why there is existence at all.

No, there is only existence, and then ideas. Mostly what you're thinking of is theoretical existence-- Like if you look at a chair, that chair is a chair. If you set the chair on fire, then it would no longer be a chair in your mind, and so its existence as a chair would cease to be, but the components of siad chair would still exist. Ideas are destructable, reality is not.

Things exist because nothing doesn't exist, because it is impossible to not exist. Unless you're asking why the universe exists, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

No, there is only existence, and then ideas. Mostly what you're thinking of is theoretical existence-- Like if you look at a chair, that chair is a chair. If you set the chair on fire, then it would no longer be a chair in your mind, and so its existence as a chair would cease to be, but the components of siad chair would still exist. Ideas are destructable, reality is not.

I don't see how that addresses my point.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Things exist because nothing doesn't exist, because it is impossible to not exist.

I agree, but I am asking what causes that to be the case.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Unless you're asking why the universe exists, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

No, I am talking about the substance and totality of existence itself. I am talking about the very principle of existing, the reality of the existing of all things that exist, including mathematical laws, form outlines, other universes, laws of physics, ideas, and all other things that exist, on the whole.

Originally Posted by really

Forever and eternity really arise from timelessness. The experience of timelessness ensues a strong knowing of absolute "foreverness". "Beginnings" and "endings" are impossible.
Isn't it obvious that existence and Reality are infinitely powerful? They have an absolute source, all other notions of limited force and energy patterns must only fall within the context of the Absolute (E.g. energy conservation). All of this unites with a Divine Source, which exists beyond all time.

This quote was in an entirely different thread...
but i think it fits here quite well.

Yeah, it does. You could substitute any of really's posts into any thread and they'd always make just as much sense.