Thread: Pondering why existence exists.

Yeah, no posting opinions anybody.

Sparks are flying tonight.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yeah, no posting opinions anybody.

Opinions are fine and very good ordinarily, but personal insult initiating is not. I know you know the difference. Let's keep this thread intellectual and peaceful. Are you down with that?

Yey.

really, nothing you say seems to have any actual meaning.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yey.

really, nothing you say seems to have any actual meaning.

Try this approach: "Really, I am not sure what you are saying. Could you present it another way? Are you pretty much saying ______________?"

That is how to keep discussions from getting nasty. Try it.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Try this approach: "Really, I am not sure what you are saying. Could you present it another way? Are you pretty much saying ______________?"

That is how to keep discussions from getting nasty. Try it.

That's how O'nus operates


<3O'nus.

If we had a thread on why people flame, it would probably degenerate into flaming.

Originally Posted by lseadragon

If we had a thread on why people flame, it would probably degenerate into flaming.

The fuck it would. You don't know shit about flaming.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't see how that addresses my point.



I agree, but I am asking what causes that to be the case.



No, I am talking about the substance and totality of existence itself. I am talking about the very principle of existing, the reality of the existing of all things that exist, including mathematical laws, form outlines, other universes, laws of physics, ideas, and all other things that exist, on the whole.

A circle doesn't have a start or end.

That answer your question?

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

A circle doesn't have a start or end.

That answer your question?

What causes the circle?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What causes the circle?

Your mom.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Your mom.

Is that a challenge? Say it to my face in this thread if you think you're bad... http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=67508

Lol that was the best mom joke I could come up with..

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What causes the circle?

No beginning, no end. So no cause.

And no effect?

What you should really be wondering is, why does non-existence not exist?

Originally Posted by Xei

Yeah, it does. You could substitute any of really's posts into any thread and they'd always make just as much sense.

I'm usually always talking about the same thing in threads of similar topics. About: Philosophy/Religion - Existence/God.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yey.

really, nothing you say seems to have any actual meaning.

Like what? Here, I made a diagram:



"Non-existence" can't be put anywhere in the diagram, because it falls into no possible category - it has no possible existence! There is nothing to reference or conceptualize, because to begin with, it doesn't exist. It is completely out of Reality. It isn't even invisible, because there is nothing to become invisible; there is no "it".

However, the "things which no longer exist" should not be confused with the "non-existence" as above, it would really fall into the category of "Non-physical existence", as infinite potentiality. That is because it is really "things which no longer physically exist". In that sense it may be accessed as a memory (possibly, but memory can deceive), but most importantly, as a record which has affected the rest of the entire physical universe, beyond time and space.

Originally Posted by Omicron

That's how O'nus operates


<3O'nus.

lol, It's clear to be clear.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What you should really be wondering is, why does non-existence not exist?

Haha, I think that's even worse... non-existence is an assumption. Perhaps we can say that it exists as it doesn't, but it would still be irrelevant to talk or think about, don't you think?

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

No beginning, no end. So no cause.

Impossible. It is a circle for a reason.

If a llama has been humping a chair for eternity, the fact that it has always been happening would not be a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon. There would still be a reason the llama has been humping the chair for eternity. "Just is" would not be sufficient.

Based on what we can observe, it just does, and we the by-product of existence cannot pierce the veil of primordial existence before this universe came into being. Have fun with your mental masturbation.

Originally Posted by Xei

It's very perplexing.

I think the problem lies in our understanding of time and causality; we have evolved in a universe with only one timeline, but I think in reality there may be a few more, and just like extra spacial dimensions, it's pretty much impossible to comprehend.

For once I agree with you.

Damn it.

Impossible. It is a circle for a reason.

But this reasoning creates the cosmological paradox.

As I said... it is best to just accept that our understanding of causality is not sufficient to deal with these matters.

Originally Posted by Xei

Damn it.

But this reasoning creates the cosmological paradox.

The idea that a "circle" is representative of the causal scenario creates a paradox. I asked my question to illustrate that.

Nothing is uncaused. If things could be uncaused, fish could spontaneously rain down from the sky and Candyland could spring up spontaneously over Tokyo. You could just happen to appear in ancient Egypt, and it would be that the situation "just is". The necessity of rational causality is part of what keeps order. Without the need for causality, there is metaphysical chaos.

Please respond to this...

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If a llama has been humping a chair for eternity, the fact that it has always been happening would not be a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon. There would still be a reason the llama has been humping the chair for eternity. "Just is" would not be sufficient.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Impossible. It is a circle for a reason.

If a llama has been humping a chair for eternity, the fact that it has always been happening would not be a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon. There would still be a reason the llama has been humping the chair for eternity. "Just is" would not be sufficient.

Wait, are you talking about existence itself or the unviverse?

As for the latter; I have no clue of its cause.

According to the Copenhagen interpretation, quantum phenomena are uncaused. They only have a probability of occurring.

Leaving aside quantum mechanics; yes, that is the whole reason for the cosmological paradox: each cause is also an effect with a cause. But also the entire system of causality must have a cause, and there the causes must end.

I believe the reason for the paradox lies in the fact that causality only applies to processes in time: it is a bit hard to get your head around, but to ask what caused something is to ask what events preceded it that led to its occurrence; so what can we mean by the 'cause' of causality, or the 'cause' of time? This is actually a meaningless statement. However humans ask it because everything we experience in physical reality is an object in time and hence causality applies. We falsely induce that it must apply to everything.

Interesting to note is the similarity between this situation and the situation in mathematics: what is the cause of the truth of mathematical statements? It is not, as you might think, proof. Godel showed that a statement can be true even if there is no proof of it. Mathematical statements have no cause.

So perhaps the universe is just an expression of mathematics.