God and the Devil.

[Howie]

I certainly do not know the Bible that well. Even what I do know I question it's credibility for my own reasons. But take into consideration a few things that could be interpreted in an entirely differant way than most people have percieved it. After all, the Bible is all parables and opens room for many differant interpretations.. The Bible referances to the devil , mamnock, Satan many times. It goes on to tell how HE was cast from heavan and so on. Could you not implemant adversary in place of the devil in context to the Bible? So to say that the Devil is not at all a flaming demon with horns but rather just human nature and the bad will of human concise. Example: Let mine adversaries(satans) be clothed with shame." (109:29) And there are hundreds of other examples. If this were true could the tiltle, God --not be the same? Always was and always will be. To me someone who had died will always be, whether in presence or not. But in my mind. As God has been to people for hundreds of years. So the referance of God and Devil may be talking of our conscious and its doings.

[Daeraug]

Interesting point of view. On some points I can agree on. There are namy names for the Devil, God, and even the Goddess. I personally believe that there is a bit of the God and Goddess in all of us.

[XxAphroditesAngelxX]

Originally posted by Daeraug I personally believe that there is a bit of the God and Goddess in all of us. -I agree.. although I think of it as yin and yang i suppose.. we all have both good and evil operating in us.. we then may make the choice to think with one or the other.. or in most of our cases.. make decisions based on a mixture of both good and evil..

[Lucius]

I personally believe gods, devils, and so on and so forth are metaphors and representations. There were many old cultures that worshipped a whole lot of gods because its hard to worship 'love' or 'courage' or whatever, its easier to put an image of an exterior being to it. (thats a mistake the puritans made when they came to the US, thinking the native americans had many gods, whereas they were all just representations) I suppose I could agree with you. The devil is just that. But we put an image to him (be it of a fallen angel or a fiery demon) because thats much easier to comprehend. But I think every god and devil of every religion out there exists, as a force, of what it represents. I have a picture above my bed off the buddhist god manifestation chenrezig, he represents love and compassion, and because we feel that he is inside of us. And he is out there, and that picture is just..a picture, like every god and goddess, what really matters is what they represent, what they truly mean. I might aswell put a picture of aphrodite/venus the goddess of love there The devil to me are emotions such as hate, great anger etc. Thats just what I think

[Daeraug]

I always believe that there will always be an evil and a good. How could you have the shadow without the light and vise versa.

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Didn't the Hebrew -- and thus the Christian -- concept of God and the Devil come from living among the Zoroastrian Persians who believed in two gods, one of good, and one of evil, or one god with a persona of each good and evil...or something?

[Daeraug]

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka Didn't the Hebrew -- and thus the Christian -- concept of God and the Devil come from living among the Zoroastrian Persians who believed in two gods, one of good, and one of evil, or one god with a persona of each good and evil...or something? That is an interesting question. I am going to have to look into that. I love studying different religions, helps me understand why people are the way they are. For some info on religions try these: Religious Tolerance Witch's Voice Bewitching Ways The last two are on Wicca/Witchcraft and the first is for many different religions.

[Awaken]

Those who understand religion don't take it literally. There are common elements found in most religions which are really just translations of one another. On the surface they tell seemingly-unique stories, like a movie does, but the underlying message is consistent. To fight over which religion is right is like trying to decide which movie plot is the "correct" way of getting the message across. Different strokes for different folks, but it boils down to the same thing on a fundamental level.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Awaken Those who understand religion don't take it literally. There are common elements found in most religions which are really just translations of one another. On the surface they tell seemingly-unique stories, like a movie does, but the underlying message is consistent. To fight over which religion is right is like trying to decide which movie plot is the \"correct\" way of getting the message across. Different strokes for different folks, but it boils down to the same thing on a fundamental level. I would like to think that it all boils down to the same fundemantal base. I have thought before if everyone just followed the ten commandments how much better things would be. But there again, you would have people who have a differant ideas of what each one means. And it is not as easy as different strokos for different folks. Apparently the differernt strokes are strong enough to have killed millions of people over the years, started wars,countless other religions and didvided churches.

[Awaken]

[quote] And it is not as easy as different strokos for different folks. Apparently the differernt strokes are strong enough to have killed millions of people over the years, started wars,countless other religions and didvided churches. And unfortunately that's how powerful a belief in the mind can be. It's true that if everyone followed the ten commandments all would be well. But like you said, interpretation of those commandments is a different story. And when someone has a different belief to defend, and is willing to defend it to the death, we see the results. Realistically even the ten commandments are too much for any religion which wants peace among all. 3 words could sum up any religion devoted to peace: Love Thy Neighbor. Technicalities just drive people nuts Just love the person next to you, or on the other side of the world, and other than that, live your life how you choose. It sounds contradictory, "freedom to do anything...EXCEPT hurt others", but with this mindset you realize that hurting your neighbor is no different than hurting yourself. Bad feelings spawn bad feelings.

[AirRick101]

"It's a bird, it's a plane, no, it's Superman!!!" No matter what you call it, it won't change it's reality. But if one somehow mistakens something and believes it to be completely different, their actions might as well be abberant to truth. After seeing many different philosophies and religions, I see how there's a constant theme along it all. A similarity of descriptions of truth. Most important, though, is to see how love sums up the belief.

[Awaken]

You got it. Love. That's it. Forget about Jesus, forget about Buddha, and forget about any kind of belief system which causes you to look outside yourself for guidance. It's all in your own mind and heart. Just love and you will be loved. Let your heart guide you.

[Lucius]

And that just happens to be what Jezus and Buddha preached (if they existed, but I think they did) And what is the difference between us and Jezus? Time. There is nothing supernatural about him, its all very simple. Yet so miraclous though, aren't we so lucky that we know a thing such as love But in any case, I wholy agree with the last few posts made ^_^ Its all about love, its about love and trust (surrender/letting go/not holding on to a so called absolute truth etc) Love, is what its really all about. People tend to make things much more complicated than they really are and should be..philosofy is a hobby This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness. ~The Dalai Lama

[Awaken]

Originally posted by Lucius And that just happens to be what Jezus and Buddha preached (if they existed, but I think they did) True enough I guess some religions manage to twist the meaning so people look up to their "elders" for guidance instead of thinking for themselves. Jehovah's Witnesses come to mind.

[Daeraug]

Originally posted by Awaken True enough I guess some religions manage to twist the meaning so people look up to their \"elders\" for guidance instead of thinking for themselves. Jehovah's Witnesses come to mind. Yeah, you have no idea. They took Christianity and turned it into a Cult.

[Lucius]

Its sad but true. I think this can be said about all religions, though perhaps christianity is the clearest example. But I believe that even a religion such as buddhism was changed around, all religions were. But like Awaken said, those who truly understand their religion see past this anyway.

[Howie]

I think all of us here have a similar view to what love is. I don't mean to play the devils advocate here but agian, love is something that is viewed in many differant ways. Unfortunatly I think there are a lot of people that are incapable of love, or very little. Or at best very distorted from what most feel love is. Maybe in their own greedy way they derive love from it. But where do they fit in?

[Awaken]

Originally posted by Lucius those who truly understand their religion see past this anyway. You got it I almost made the mistake of asking a JW out from my place of employment...We went to my car on lunch break for some private getting-to-know-each-other-time (no that doesn't mean screwing ). But she brought this book along which outlines the JW religion and I thought that's alright I'm curious about what they follow. One part was about following authority (was referring to a police officer). Listen to them because they are the authority! Great, I thought, they're sheeple. And the other part she showed me was about teaching kids that sexual feelings are BAD ie. don't let ANYONE touch you because it is YOUR private area. Okay it has potential to keep them away from trouble. But understanding who is a danger can be taught without the totalitarian BS. Anyway that sums up my experience with the cult. She was a sweetheart but I can't deal with that crap.

[Awaken]

[quote]I think all of us here have a similar view to what love is. I don't mean to play the devils advocate here but agian, love is something that is viewed in many differant ways. Unfortunatly I think there are a lot of people that are incapable of love, or very little. Or at best very distorted from what most feel love is. Maybe in their own greedy way they derive love from it. But where do they fit in? Excellent point. Love is relative. I keep forgetting there's actually no such thing as common sense

[Lucius]

[quote]I think all of us here have a similar view to what love is. I don't mean to play the devils advocate here but agian, love is something that is viewed in many differant ways. Unfortunatly I think there are a lot of people that are incapable of love, or very little. Or at best very distorted from what most feel love is. Maybe in their own greedy way they derive love from it. But where do they fit in? People that don't love, do not love themselves either. Before you can love others you need to love yourself. What love is exactly, yeah I suppose different people have different definitions but to me its a very broad term, a combination of compassion, kindness, acceptance, genuine friendliness, relative open mindedness (you are always relatively open, not absolutely), equality, care and so much more, its really hard to describe. It has nothing to do with romance or friendship in the first place, thats not really the kind off love /I/ am talking about, but I'm sure we all wern't. Though you should regard everybody as your friend, even your enemy. When one realises the simple concept of love, you already posess more wisdom than..all the stuff that floats around religion. It's like a finger pointing at the moon, do not confuse the moon with the finger or you will miss all heavenly glory Too much finger. Love is the moon. This quote btw contains more wisdom than an entire book full of lecturing. If you can figure what things in life are the finger, and what is truly the moon than, you are truly wise (Im not saying I do). We might sometimes need a finger to point things out, but leave the finger be once you see the moon. Its like romance..its all good to express your love with gifts and pretty words,but do not forget they are the finger, not the moon. And..lots more I could say about that =P And Im sorta wandering off, don't mind me. I dont wanna go into a different direction, after all it is about god and the devil =P

[eyeofgames]

ahh the Devil to me....I think that God is good right.So when God made every thing the natural law is with good must come evil (yin/yang) so sooner or later the devil came out and so he chose this planet to curse and plage for a wile. When God destorys him he the battle between good and evil shall be done the and natural law of yin and yang complete.So yeah the devil is one of the risks that God took when he made everything proof that he loves his creation a lot.

[dreamtamer007]

Without getting to a lot of scripture I will just say that there is a saying in the bible that "You have seen My creation and therefore no man will have any excuse”. Moreover I will tell you a true story and you can take it for what its worth. I was into drugs when I was young and came close to death many times. Totally screwed in the head and hurting physically and mentally I was caught and thrown in jail. The jails were so crowded at the time that there was not even a cell for me. So they threw a piece of foam up on one of the cages that did not reach the sealing and told me to clime up there and stay. I was young, in misery and scared. Along with pain there was no piece of mind at all. I just kept calling out to Jesus over and over and did not stop for a half hour or so. I did not know what to pray for but just kept calling on the person I believed in. All of a sudden a piece came over me and my mind instantly became sane and I just lay there and smiled. Like I said, the book says we will have no excuse.

[evangel]

I certainly do not know the Bible that well. Even what I do know I question it's credibility for my own reasons.[/b] Why would anyone have reaason to question something's credibility without even knowing it... unless they were buying someone else's pre-conceived notions or assumptions? My suggestion is to get to know the text without the pre-conceieved criticisms of it, THEN examine the criticisms of that text. Otherwise it's kind of like examining a crime scene that that has been contaminated or tampered with. After all, the Bible is all parables and opens room for many differant interpretat[/b] You will find it much more rewarding if you, again, study the text by itself first and get to KNOW IT WELL before being critical of it. Even the most atheistic Bible scholars will admit that the scriptures are MUCH more than just parables. That is a common myth held by those who have not taken care to study what they critique. There may be SOME parables within it, but they are just emeralds to be found in a storefrroom full and overflowing with ancient wisdom, history, and truth