No, it is not a contradiction. |
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I believe in free will. |
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Previously PhilosopherStoned
No, it is not a contradiction. |
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Wait what? If determinism is true, then free will cannot exist because choices do not exist. There is only a single outcome for any given set of events. |
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Wrong. There is a variation of events that could happen, options if you will, that are a result of a catalyst. |
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I agree that determinism does not contradict free will. The way I always explain it is the following: |
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But you didn't. Your actions were determined, not created. |
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So what? |
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But determinism suggests that your decisions are so much decision as reactions. Whatever billions of infinitesimal causes lead to you this instant determines what you will be in the next moment. So how can free will exist? |
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What is free will? As far as I'm concerned it is just the ability to choose. We have that ability, so we have free will. There is no conflict with determinism. |
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Maybe if by free will you mean the ability of limited foresight in that you can figure out what you can do in a certain situation and what the immediate effects may be. It's still determined. |
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The point is that it's ultimately determined by me though. A different person, in a situation that was precisely the same(*), would make a different choice. I am a choice machine. I make choices. I may do so deterministically but I do it uniquely. |
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Previously PhilosopherStoned
No, it is determined by the series events that leads up to, and creates you. You aren't actually deciding anything. |
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Just do a quick thought experiment. At the moment when you need to make a decision, teleport yourself out of the situation and someone else into the situation. They make a different decision than you would. Your decisions are your decision and are not dictated by the situation. How is that not free will? |
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Previously PhilosopherStoned
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Einstein
A different action in response to the exact same stimuli. |
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Last edited by PhilosopherStoned; 09-13-2009 at 07:20 AM.
Previously PhilosopherStoned
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Uh, what? |
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You were making the point that you're not actually choosing anything, it's just your neurons firing in a deterministic manner. I was making the point that the firing of the neurons is the actual choice. |
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That pretty much sums it up. You are your body and your mind. So the idea that any choice you make is because you are the person you are, and that some how disproves free will is silly. That is basically saying, if you make a choice based on your personality you didn't have free will. You were forced to by your personality. Obviously that makes no sense. |
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Well stated. |
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It's only a different situation though because there is a different choice maker involved. Everything else is identical. This demonstrates that anything about the situation is superfluous to what decision gets made. |
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Previously PhilosopherStoned
No, it is a different situation because the person is different, which directly affects everything around them. Determinism says that all of the events and processes at base are what form the universe, and that everything else is an arbitrary way of grouping events together to make the universe manageable for a thinking entity. Or at least, that's what I say. Nothing is chosen because nothing is random, there is only one possible outcome for a given event. The chance of what outcome that will be is called probability. |
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I'm saying that it's a different situation because the person is different. What does it directly affect around them? The only change that I see as being significant to the decision that is made is the person making the decision. |
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Previously PhilosopherStoned
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