Philosophy of Reality

[Kanji]

Okay, let's just cut to the chase. Common Sense Reality: Most people think that physical objects are real and that they exist independent of human contemplation. Objects do not change depending upon our thoughts about them. They exist objectively whether or not we think about them, observe them, measure them, or ignore them. The "common sense" philosophy has always been around, but it was articulated by 18th century Moderates in response to the destructive Enlightenment philosophies of John Locke and David Hume. The Moderates "rejected John Locke's radical doctrine of ideas because they recognized that 'everyone believes that a real world exists beyond our minds and imaginations and that we can truly know things about the world around us.' Even skeptics and relativists duck when they go through low doorways". Vedantic Philosophy---The World of Ideas: The ancient and modern Eastern religious philosophy of reality tells us that reality is subjective, consisting of ideas and perceptions. Dreams seem very real when we are asleep, but upon awakening we realize that what seemed so real when we were dreaming was only in the mind. After pointing this out, the Vedantic philosopher claims that we can also be fooled when we are awake, and we don't ever really know for sure what is real. So, he concludes, it is our thoughts and mental images that are important, since everything else may only be an illusion. Quantum Reality: In the Western world, the leading physicists advocate one or more of the eight forms of quantum reality, with most holding to the Copenhagen Interpretation that There is no deep reality. "The Copenhagen interpretation properly consists of two distinct parts: 1. There is no reality in the absence of observation; 2. Observation creates reality. `You create your own reality....' " As stated by a much honored professor of Quantum Theory, "We now know the moon is demonstrably not there when nobody looks". This is not merely hyperbole; "Physicists do not put forth these quantum realities as science fiction speculations concerning worlds that might have been, but as serious pictures of the one world we actually live in: the universe outside your door". What do you guys think about reality?

[Belisarius]

I like this thread, and I really want to learn more about quantum physics because I have heard many things about it that make me want to understand it. I am very curious as to how people arrived at quantum reality from the study of common sense reality. Quantum Reality is probably a confirmation of Vedantic Philosophy as you put them forth. The problem with quantum reality is that we have no proof that the observations of others occur at all. The only things I have absolute proof of are my own existance and the existance of my observations(not what I observe). If we can proove that the moon is not there when noone looks then there is no possibility that common sense reality exists. If we can't then it is possible that common sense reality is true, but we don't know it, so then what is the definition of reality? If we can't know something exists, how can it exist? External reality is completely ambiguous, we have no reason to believe it exists, we only percieve. So then the next question is,"What causes my perceptions?" Dreaming may provide a key insight into the cause of perception. What causes perception in dreaming may very well cause perception in the waking life.

[Kevyboy]

Reality is just perseption To all people it is bound to be seen differently even in a minute way and the problem is we cant prove anything 100%. For example a table is a table - its what weve been told it is - its a hard inanimate object that has a leg/s and a surface ontop Though how do we know that when nothing is focused on it it doesnt move - or that if we walk towards it in a certain way we cant walk straight through it - just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it cant be. How you percive the world is going to change your reality, so there is no way of say what reality is, because we have no exact constant to compare it against.

[tryagain]

how do you guys think of these things without blowing your head into fried potatoes?

[Estok]

It is like loading these posts from the database. Like none of what you see on the browser right now exist the way they exist in the database.

[tryagain]

You mean like eating a burnt fried potatoe but not liking it, but it's still in your stomach? Or like meeting someone you don't like but that person is still there? Or like drinking a gallon of expired milk but you realized that it was expired but too bad because you drank it anyways?

[Boof]

I really believe in the common sense reality. I mean, of course our whole lives might be dreams and so on, but whats the point of seeing it from that perpective? If the moon is there when we look at it, why wouldnt it be when we are not? And why think it might not be there when we are not? It doesnt matter if it exists or not. If ot exists in our minds it DO exist.

[aaron_gx]

In this reality, why is so much life and supplies located in such a small pinpoint of our existance (earth)? What lies beyond earth, our solar system, the milky way... Have you ever seen "men in black", the first one, where at the end of the movie, the alien is playing with marbles, each marble containing a solar system of thousands of planets. This seems quite plauseable to me...

[Feyd_Shadowen]

ok i sorta stopped reading the replies in the middle butecause i have a reply to the quantim stuff... this is my recall of an article i read so i do appoligize if i forget things.... quantim reality (simplified) is all based on obsevation. e.x. you put a cat in a box and leave it for an hour. now when you return there are two possible outcomes... either the cat is dead or it is alive but UNTILL you open and OBSERVE the cat you cannot infer either of the options.... untill one observes a subjest it is possible that there is nothing... the point of the question "if a tree falls ina forest, and there is no one around, does it make a sound?" falls under these exact principles.... we cannot know with out observations... ok i pretty much just repeated everything that has been said thus far so i am done....

[Belisarius]

I don't prescribe to the theory of external reality. There's no reason to believe in it, and there certainly isn't any proof of it.

[Kaniaz]

And you'll all go insane discussing this before coming to an logical ending.

[Belisarius]

And what is that, Kaniaz?

[Erfeyah]

Well, i would say that the most interesting question is not if something exists or not. Probably something exists so that we percieve it, the thing that changes with it's person is the interpetetion. What is the true essence of things? This is a tricky question. A tree falls down in a forest and there is someone there to hear the sound. Is the sound he hears a big part of what is really happening in that moment or just a litlle help from nature to humans, to help them have a point of refference to use for their survival? Our senses are interpetations of the world. Animals have different senses than us and there are differences even between humans. So something is real for everyone but it exists in a different way for its person as well. What 's holding together our objective reality is an agreement between us. So what is like to percieve the world on it's whole essense? An insect(or anything elsse) doesn't have the characteristics of human's that we are so proud of, but we shouldn's forget that an insect has some characteristics that we don't have as well. P.S: I hope that makes sense because it's really difficult to expres it in english. If it doesn't tell me and i will try again. P.S 2: That is my first post after some months so welcome me back please .

[Kaniaz]

Originally posted by Belisarius And what is that, Kaniaz? Easy, everything exists on the basis that I can bloody well damn see it.

[What Is Real?]

i somewhat agree with Kaniaz, for instance even if we are ina a dream right this instant, everything is still real untill it is PROVEN unreal. Iguess this would be like 'reverse quantim physics' or what-ever-u-call-it

[pyrhho]

quantum physics is bullshit. thanks.. had to get that out of my system. I sort of agree with the Super-Position theory, but not really.. see.. to me. it's like saying, I'm the reason this universe is here. I'm what determines if things exist or not. you know? it's like making yourself God. say, you have a card in a deck. you don't know what card it is, so according to quantum physics it is every card. but lo and behold when you flip it over it always becomes the same card. every time. meh. my (probably misunderstodd) views. pyrhho

[What Is Real?]

actuly quantum physics in my opinion expalain the extremely complex with probablitys, even if there is a definate answer to the problem. The reason for this is, molecules and atoms ect.. move so fast in relation to us that scientists just dont know there is a definate outcome because everthing moves so fast. (it owuld be like the earth spinning arround the sun 1000000 times a seccond and some one is trying to locate the earth) since they lack the tools to find the "earth" they simply say, there is a X chance that it will be here, except its more then jsut that. Of course what I just said is purly my thoughts not scientific in any way.