belief vs. behaviour

[nerve]

this is something I've thought about for awhile, but can't seem to put in words. basically, we all have our beliefs, what we think we believe, what we claim to believe - even if we claim to have no beliefs. "I'm a(n) ______ist" or "I believe in _____ism" or, whatever. but, how well do you know yourself? how certain are you, that you are this or that, or believe in this or that? I've noticed people say "I'm _____," but the way they act suggests otherwise. the only way to know what you truly believe is to look at your behaviour. I think people should think more about their supposed beliefs, instead of claiming to be what sounds good to them. me, I don't know what I really believe. it's hard for me to tell. I like to say that I don't believe in anything, but I think it's really just that I don't know. maybe people don't like to say this, because it makes you look stupid? it's always better to have something to say when asked a question, rather than saying "I don't know." right? for example, I could say that I don't know what I believe, or I could say that I'm a "metaphysical nihilist." which one sounds cooler/smarter? how many people wear beliefs like accessories? how many people really believe what they claim to believe? it's hard to tell what you actually believe...at least for me. because so many beliefs overlap. but I think they all boil down to whether you live for yourself, or others. and then everything else is just details. and now I'm starting to ramble. so, before I go too far, any thoughts?

[dajo]

I think you are absolutely right, I don't know what it is exactly that I believe and to be honest, I think claiming that you know makes you look a little stupid, not claiming that you don't know, which makes you look realistic. Well, and I'm not too fond of all the categorizing, so I agree with you there, too. I really don't have the need to label myself with anything, although it is interesting to read about different concepts of belief. And a lot actually seem reasonable, if you think about it. I often think 'ah, from that point of view it sounds about right', let it be pantheism or existentialism. Also - not all of them are really exclusive. So what's my point? hm. Reading about them I enjoy more than trying to fit myself into any of them. And putting on different 'accessories' for a fit is fun, as long as you take them off again later.

[Taosaur]

I would agree from a practical standpoint to base relationships and predictions of behavior on what people (including oneself) do, and not what we say, but also cut people some slack for exploring themselves and the world, and/or having something to aspire to. I used to be category-shy as well, but their came points where it would be at least as dishonest or incomplete to deny certain categories as to claim membership. In regard to Buddhism, for instance, I cannot deny the truth of the Buddha's teachings or the exceptional qualities of the Buddhist masters, but neither can I claim to be following those teachings as prescribed, even to the limited extent suggested to laity. So if the question is how do I live, refer to biographies of Baudelaire or Orwell, but if the question is how do I see, study Buddhism and Taoism. Sexually, I dodged categorization well into my twenties, but now find myself by whatever roundabout route a rather vanilla heterosexual. I don't go out of my way to behave like either a Buddhist or a straight (aside from meditating/mindfulness and making fuck with ladies), but if someone is trying to figure out where I'm coming from, those are two good starting points. Sometimes what looks like hypocrisy to the idealist is just the complexity that inevitably branches and roots in us over time.

[AirRick101]

you remember that famous line from the movie "the Dark Knight" ~ "it's not who you are (what you believe) that defines you, Bruce, it's what you do." I had a talk with a friend about our ex-girlfriends, and I told him stuff like "I would have killed for her," and then he said "well, did you?" and then he followed up with "it doesn't matter what you say you would do (again, belief), but what you do." actions speak louder than words...which is why I'm tending to lurk these forums more than just post, lol.

[Taosaur]

actions speak louder than words...which is why I'm tending to lurk these forums more than just post, lol. As in the great all-purpose disclaimer/caveat: He who knows does not speak; He who speaks does not know. ~Lao Tzu

[OldManRiver]

well i live completely for myself, so i guess I am a satanist. like you told me a few days ago.

[Spenner]

I've come across countless people that don't act accordingly to their "beliefs" and more so use it as some sort of inevitably saviouring entity of some sort, hoping that they'll go to heaven and whatnot because they've proclaimed themself as "religious". That's what I just don't like-- people that say they believe without actually believing. It's like saying you want a glass of soya milk just to please your lactose intolerant friend, or because maybe you think it's the right thing to do and go along with the flow. Personally I think I've done well in equalizing my actions on the basis of my beliefs. I'm not a very religious person, but I do have rational beliefs that, to me, are work better than any religion I could encompass myself in. I'm comfortable with it, it's acceptable and realistic, and I can live a nice life based off it, so I'm good with that. My beliefs are a bit non-specific and generalized sometimes, but that's being realistic-- sometimes beliefs have to be interpreted differently based on a certain situation.

[nerve]

And putting on different 'accessories' for a fit is fun, as long as you take them off again later. this is called poseury! I would agree from a practical standpoint to base relationships and predictions of behavior on what people (including oneself) do, and not what we say, but also cut people some slack for exploring themselves and the world, and/or having something to aspire to. but if they've donned a title, it means they've stopped looking, even if only for a minute. besides, I doubt many people even fully understand half the things they call themselves. metaphysical nihilism makes sense to me, but I doubt I'm even close to understanding the full implications. pantheism sounds good to me too. (are those things even compatible?) so does satanism. but I don't understand any of these things enough to actually give myself the titles. Sometimes what looks like hypocrisy to the idealist is just the complexity that inevitably branches and roots in us over time. all I'm saying is that I think we (general "we") should stop labeling ourselves, and simply say what makes sense to us at the time and why. it really is hypocritical to brandish all these fancy terms when you don't even know what you're talking about. I guess I'm just saying that I think people should think about it more.

[dajo]

this is called poseury! I was under the impression that you're thinking of different believes, because you wanted to know wether or not they apply to you, not to impress others. When I say 'trying them on for a fit', I'm talking mostly about what's happening in my head. All of this stuff is personal to me and doesn't really have anything to do with other people. Did I misinterprete your OP? I would agree from a practical standpoint to base relationships and predictions of behavior on what people (including oneself) do, and not what we say, but also cut people some slack for exploring themselves and the world, and/or having something to aspire to. I used to be category-shy as well, but their came points where it would be at least as dishonest or incomplete to deny certain categories as to claim membership. In regard to Buddhism, for instance, I cannot deny the truth of the Buddha's teachings or the exceptional qualities of the Buddhist masters, but neither can I claim to be following those teachings as prescribed, even to the limited extent suggested to laity. So if the question is how do I live, refer to biographies of Baudelaire or Orwell, but if the question is how do I see, study Buddhism and Taoism. Sexually, I dodged categorization well into my twenties, but now find myself by whatever roundabout route a rather vanilla heterosexual. I don't go out of my way to behave like either a Buddhist or a straight (aside from meditating/mindfulness and making fuck with ladies), but if someone is trying to figure out where I'm coming from, those are two good starting points. Sometimes what looks like hypocrisy to the idealist is just the complexity that inevitably branches and roots in us over time. I use categories, if I want to explain my worldview to someone else. But I try to not think of myself in categories, because I feel it limits me or excludes me from believing something else. That is kind of, what I wanted to say above. Besides that I don't claim to know, because I don't. But nice post and good points.

[nerve]

I was under the impression that you're thinking of different believes, because you wanted to know wether or not they apply to you, not to impress others. When I say 'trying them on for a fit', I'm talking mostly about what's happening in my head. All of this stuff is personal to me and doesn't really have anything to do with other people. Did I misinterprete your OP? I was kidding, really. I just wanted to say 'poseury.' it's just that I don't add after every joke, so it's hard to tell when I'm kidding sometimes e_e sorry.

[dajo]

I was kidding, really. I just wanted to say 'poseury.' it's just that I don't add after every joke, so it's hard to tell when I'm kidding sometimes e_e sorry. Oh, no I'm sorry. It's so damn difficult to convey emotions through text only. And I understand: I don't use smileys behind every joke either and have been misunderstood countless times on the internet. Ah well, ->

[Invader]

What you've expressed has occurred to me in a different form... Imagine if one person on DV could be evaluated at a time by the members, during which time the members would be reasoning out what beliefs that one person held based on what they know of their posting style/past contributions. This reflects your thoughts about beliefs and whether or not they are congruent with the way in which we portray ourselves. I've always wanted to ask what people think I believe in. Have you wanted to do that too Nerve, or do you make your beliefs public more often than not (which would of ruin the question, you understand)?

[nerve]

I've always wanted to ask what people think I believe in. Have you wanted to do that too Nerve, or do you make your beliefs public more often than not (which would of ruin the question, you understand)? it may sound...I don't know, dumb, but I don't even know :p I think I share a lot, there isn't too much I don't...you could probably look at all my posts over the last few years (if one were so inclined) and tell me what beliefs/philosophies I follow...because I don't actually know. I think, but I could be off (by however much), I guess what I'm saying is, someone else could probably tell you better than I could. you know? only, a side-note: the first 3-4 years of my posts shouldn't count. I was younger, didn't know anything, and my beliefs have changed dramatically. would you believe I used to be a hardcore, fundamentalist, republican christian? I even put a Bush/Cheney sticker in my signature, to annoy everyone :D (wonder if anyone remembers that?) I would really like to know what my beliefs currently are (of course they fluctuate, but there must be specific beliefs that each individual has, right now). I wish someone would help me pin-point them, because you can't do it alone. I'd need a second opinion (or even better, several opinions). I'd love to evaluate your posts and tell you what I think your beliefs are, it sounds like a fun project. I don't know off the bat what I think, I will have to get back to you. also I'm no philosophy major, so certainly I don't know all the right terms... but I could give you my best guess. :) Oh, no I'm sorry. It's so damn difficult to convey emotions through text only. And I understand: I don't use smileys behind every joke either and have been misunderstood countless times on the internet. Ah well, -> :D HA! ain't it a bitch? but I think all the smilies ruin good jokes. I think things are often funnier when you can't tell that someone's kidding. :x

[AirRick101]

Oh, no I'm sorry. It's so damn difficult to convey emotions through text only. And I understand: I don't use smileys behind every joke either and have been misunderstood countless times on the internet. Ah well, -> lol, I disagree...people tend to get me quite well when I demonstrate sarcasm through text, lol.

[Hijo de la Luna]

All beliefs are not religious necessarily. Many beliefs are staring us in the face right out in the open. We perceive life to BE as we BELIEVE. IF we didn't life wouldn't look the way it does to us. We have beliefs about religion, politics, ouselves even if we do not actively participate/accept in the realm of either of them. Also labels are useful but we should never confuse the labels with what is. Labels are excellent for navigation of the internal & external worlds but we could see that the labels exist only are useful within context. by the way I love this quote AirRicky101, "naturals are what we call people who did all the right things accidentally"

[Koalaman]

@TS: I agree with you. To be honest I think that even I have said to believe things, but then my actions seem to tell me otherwise. It's extremely difficult, because you can be believing things without being fully aware of them. It seems that I've just started to get myself to believe some things consciously and "for real". When I allow some belief to access my heart, the belief seems to become "real". Perhaps thinking is not enough to get you to believe something. I think that you need to open your heart to your belief too. (This may require some courage though.) Otherwise I think that the belief is not a belief but just a theory or hypothesis. They're useful, but not something you live by.

[Koalaman]

I would agree from a practical standpoint to base relationships and predictions of behavior on what people (including oneself) do, and not what we say, but also cut people some slack for exploring themselves and the world, and/or having something to aspire to. I used to be category-shy as well, but their came points where it would be at least as dishonest or incomplete to deny certain categories as to claim membership. In regard to Buddhism, for instance, I cannot deny the truth of the Buddha's teachings or the exceptional qualities of the Buddhist masters, but neither can I claim to be following those teachings as prescribed, even to the limited extent suggested to laity. So if the question is how do I live, refer to biographies of Baudelaire or Orwell, but if the question is how do I see, study Buddhism and Taoism. Sexually, I dodged categorization well into my twenties, but now find myself by whatever roundabout route a rather vanilla heterosexual. I don't go out of my way to behave like either a Buddhist or a straight (aside from meditating/mindfulness and making fuck with ladies), but if someone is trying to figure out where I'm coming from, those are two good starting points. Sometimes what looks like hypocrisy to the idealist is just the complexity that inevitably branches and roots in us over time. Yeah, there are varying degrees in beliefs.

[Alric]

I know exactly what I believe in, and I fully stand behind everything I believe in. Not everything I believe in fits into some kind of category, and that is probably true for most people. Though that shouldn't stop you from believing in things.

[Koalaman]

I know exactly what I believe in, and I fully stand behind everything I believe in. Not everything I believe in fits into some kind of category, and that is probably true for most people. Though that shouldn't stop you from believing in things. You can make up your own categories. For me categorizing stuff makes it easier for me to think about it. So that there's thinking power left for other stuff. I've problems with categorizing too, but I'm trying.

[youssarian]

Belief v. Behavior. I see this all the time and often struggle with it myself. I am a categorizer. I say "I'm a Christian" and until recently I would say "I'm a GOOD Christian" because yes I believe in the Bible and all that stuff. But then I would analyze my behavior and realize that there are plenty of things that I need working on. Politically, I call myself moderate, with a slight conservative slant. However, that's a generalization because the truth is, I'm not politically intelligent to really have an educated opinion. I do think it is important to stand by what you believe. Otherwise, do you really believe it? You may mentally acknowledge a fact but if it's not something you stick to, your statement of belief is pretty much invalidated.