Anything and everything

[Kraftwerk]

If the theories I have heard about the universe being infinite, and having infinite time-lines, and there being infinite universes in the mulitverse, Then hasn't everything conceivable happened? Or will happen? Or is happening? (I'm not sure what tense to use for talking about a different timeline ) Wouldn't this mean that every plot of every movie and every book already been played out in some way shape or form? Or am I just crazy?

[ExoByte]

If your pretense is correct, then the answer is yes.

[nerve]

If your pretense is correct, then the answer is yes. so fictional characters are real. :\

[ExoByte]

I said If the pretense is correct. The idea is with infinite time and infinite limits, there exists infinite possibility. Given endless time, absolutely anything can happen. However there are limits, as far as we're aware. So no, fictional characters are not real. I merely said, if the (rather vague), pretense is correct.

[nerve]

I know I just said that to get a rise out of you :>

[Kraftwerk]

Well, we know for sure at least that there are infinite timelines for this universe right here. Which kind of does mean fictional characters are real, just in a way we cannot reach them. Its the whole Infinite monkeys with infinite type-writers thing. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem )

[Lucidness]

Are you talking about multiple dimensions? Theres a theory of multiple dimensions, that every concievable thing/being everything has been made a different way an infinte about of times. So, there is a MAN with an apple growing out of his head (lol). There is another MAN with a apple growing out of his head, but hes speaking jibberish. Every concievable man possible.

[Xei]

For a start it's not a widely accepted view that reality has existed for an infinite amount of time. Our universe at the very least is 13.7 bn years old, certainly not infinite. Secondly, The idea is with infinite time and infinite limits, there exists infinite possibility. Given endless time, absolutely anything can happen. This is a rather antiquated idea of infinity. It's what the ancient Greeks thought, and it's wrong. Infinite time does not mean that anything conceivable can happen. It does not even mean that anything possible can happen. Impossible events have 0 probability of happening in some time span and so have 0 probability of ever happening (i.e. as time tends to infinity). Events with a constant probability of happening in some time span will always happen (i.e. the probability tends to 1 as time tends to infinity). However some events which always have a positive probability of happening in some time span do not necessarily always happen, if the probability tends to 0. Most events we can conceive of are of this third type. As a random example, the probability that two unrelated stars go supernova within a second of each other. This has a small but positive probability; however, as time tends to infinity, all the stars will go out due to the second law of thermodynamics, and the probability will tend to 0, so the event could never happen, despite it being possible and having infinite time. The infinite monkey example is a good example of why this kind of analysis is necessary. It is indeed an example of the second type of event I listed and therefore a monkey will definitely at some point write the entire works of Shakespeare. The problem is that it is a hypothetical situation. In real life the universe cannot support any number of monkeys for an infinite amount of time. Some day all of the monkeys will be dead for some reason or other, and therefore in real life the probability will tend to zero and again it's an event of the third kind I listed. This post was quite technical but it's all true, and hopefully answers the question well enough.

[Universal Mind]

For a start it's not a widely accepted view that reality has existed for an infinite amount of time. Our universe at the very least is 13.7 bn years old, certainly not infinite. That's just one universe. Kraftwerk is talking about a multiverse where an infinite number of universes exist.

[Bonsay]

That's just one universe. Kraftwerk is talking about a multiverse where an infinite number of universes exist. Or the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. If that is true and if the universe will exist indefinitely, then wouldn't everything also happen in this universe? Including the thousand "hypothetical" monkeys typing for ever or Middle earth etc.

[Xei]

That's just one universe. Kraftwerk is talking about a multiverse where an infinite number of universes exist. I know, but there is no such multiverse theory in science. There are some predictions of a huge number of universes, but none that I know of an infinitude. And still, an infinitude of universes would not mean everything possible happens. There are an infinite number of primes greater than 2 but none of them are even. Or the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. If that is true and if the universe will exist indefinitely, then wouldn't everything also happen in this universe? Including the thousand "hypothetical" monkeys typing for ever or Middle earth etc. Again no. Disregarding that very few scientists accept this interpretation, it still does not imply that everything possible occurs, and certainly not that impossible things like Middle Earth occur. Only a finite number of universes are 'created' in this theory still, so there is still a finite amount of time.

[Bonsay]

Again no. Disregarding that very few scientists accept this interpretation, it still does not imply that everything possible occurs, and certainly not that impossible things like Middle Earth occur. Only a finite number of universes are 'created' in this theory still, so there is still a finite amount of time. Why only a finite number and a finite timeframe?

[Taosaur]

I originally wrote this in response to an 'origins' question, but it's equally relevant to infinity with respect to many worlds/alternate universes: I suspect the universe is essentially static, or a better way of putting it might be 'complete.' It's one thing, unified, with no real distinctions between events, objects, or moments of time. From the perspective of the total, eternal universe, everything is happening at once, always: not just the events of our timeline which we consider to 'have happened,' rigidly and exclusively, but all possible events. We're sharing real estate in an infinite multiverse where all things already, always exist in all possible states, and 'happening' is a local phenomenon. If you picture the universe in its eternal aspect as an enormous diamond with 10^112 facets--a great, refractive disco ball--then our perspective at any given moment is like a pencil beam of light moving over the surface of the diamond. To us, the universe appears to be a shifting web of coruscation, cause and effect, but the universe itself is not changing, only our perspective on it. Taking the metaphor just one more step, there's not, in fact, a single beam striking the gem from somewhere outside; the gem itself generates the light, and its illumination is constant and total. Every point on its surface, crowding every facet, is an awareness from which an entire universe unfolds. You can't say "everything has happened before," because from the perspective in which everything has/is/will happen, nothing is happening at all. One cannot preserve the conceits of "happening," "before" and "after" in the larger context against which time appears to occur.

[Xei]

Why only a finite number and a finite timeframe? Because a new universe only arises when a wavefunction collapses which happens a finite number of times...

[Bonsay]

Because a new universe only arises when a wavefunction collapses which happens a finite number of times... If the universe exists for a finite ammount of time.

[Xei]

Which it does.

[really]

Which it does. So what is your perspective on the illusion of time?

[Lucidness]

so fictional characters are real. :\ He said IF