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Here is a question to all atheists posting on Dreamviews.
The Scenario: You have received an offer of $1,000,000.00 (1 Million USD) to torture an innocent man or woman to death in the most gruesome way. No one will find out about it, and you will not be punished in any way, shape or form. The only thing that will happen is that you will be richer by One Million Dollars!
Question: Would you do it?
Yes, or no.
For either choice, please elaborate.
"To atheists"
What? Why address this to only us? I mean, for real? We're not monsters. We have morality. Might somewhat differ from religious morality in some cases but mostly it's the same. The fact that you directed this question to only the atheists on this site is just laughable, and shows your ignorance of how human morality works. I suggest you actually start thinking for a while before you start classifying a group of people as free of morality and such. I don't understand how most extremist religious folk think atheists are immoral evil monsters driven by satan who only DENY god. No. That's not the case at all. I somehow get the image from this post you just made here that you have never met a real atheist and you have been taught that anyone who doesn't believe is evil, which is a position I find many christians hold. (assuming the religion in question is christianity). /Rant
Of course I would not do it. I do not want suffering for others even if I myself gain something from it. If there was a scenario where it was me being tortured or the other guy being tortured, I'd choose to save the other guys suffering. Though, these questions are overly simplified to have obvious choices on what to do.
Why address it to atheists? It's because atheists have also posted threads with specific questions only for Christians or Creationists. You don't see me whining about that, do you?
Now to the topic. You say you wouldn't do it, and my question to you is WHY wouldn't you do it. If there are no negative consequences for your actions, then why not?
Why is it wrong to torture and kill this man, if you won't be punished?
If I were an atheist, of course I would do it, and for much less than 1 Million.
So your mother taught you, if you torture someone you go to hell. If it is ever shown that hell doesn't exist you would then torture and kill someone for money?
My mother taught me, do to others what you would have done to yourself. I don't want to get tortured and so I would never be that mean to a person for any reason.
Who is more messed up in the head?
No. Not conducive to a peaceful society. Would feel terrible for causing that much pain to a person for money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
Inspiration for question? Seems loaded.
But did your mother give you an explanation as to why it is wrong to do to things to others that you wouldn't have then do to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Why is it wrong?
Peaceful society? As I said, there are no consequences here. You won't be punished, and no one will find out. You will only be 1 Million Dollars richer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUELINE976
So why not?
You seem to not comprehend the BASIC essence of what almost every atheist I know thinks and does. There ARE negative consequences for my actions. People suffer. I don't want people to suffer, which is what I stated in my previous post. I wouldn't do it because I do not want people to suffer. That's it. Simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
I find the whole concept of christian thinking of "I am only good because I'll get punished if I am not" appalling. It doesn't really make you good if you are only doing it for the rewards/possible punishment for bad behaviour, now does it?
You see, you are only thinking about yourself here. "In the crhistian world view, I will get punished for doing bad things, in the atheist world view, I won't, therefore it's okay to kill and rape everyone!!!!". NO. That is just idiotic. I am not doing everything in my life just that I myself would have the best experience in the end. I do stuff to make others happy as well. What in this is so hard to understand? And don't ask me why I want other people happy, if you can't figure that out, it's hopeless for you.
Maintaining peace goes beyond punishment/non-punishment. A society predicated on the disappearance and torture of its members in favor of short term monetary gains is hardly peaceful, whether the assailant is known or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
Again, inspiration for question?
O.k., I accept your explanation. Your reasons for not doing it are that it makes you feel bad if you make other people suffer. (Although I think you'd get over it pretty fast, once you get the million.)Quote:
Originally Posted by JussiKala
Now I want to hear other atheists on this issue.
I'm an atheist but that doesn't affect my own answer to the question. As a person with morality, I would choose purposefully to keep using it even when offered material goods - my lack of guilt is worth far more than money.
In other words, no, I wouldn't do it.
No. I would have to live with the horror of inflicting that much pain and suffering on another human being, and especially for such a flippant "reward." No amount of money in the world would be able to drive out the horror.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
As for the "why", well, turn it around. How would you feel if you were just randomly snatched off the street and tortured to death for money and/or amusement? If you can't say something should apply to you, how can you say it should apply to anyone else? It's the golden rule.
Side note: the golden rule predates Jesus by at least 1700 years and is found in nearly every world religion, as well as many secular codes of morality.
The "golden rule" has little value if we are not being punished for our actions. If there is no consequence, then why shouldn't I do it? If I need the money, I would do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario92
I would also do it for $100,000 bucks.
And as far as very Evil criminals are concerned, I would torture them for free, and their families.
If you are an atheist in such a scenario, you have nothing to be afraid of. You can do it, without any consequences aside from bad conscience after the event. There is no hindrance here! (And I know more about this than I'm letting on at the moment.).
Again, it's not about the consequences. It's that most of us actually want good for others instead of only wanting good for ourselves (access to heaven for example, by helping others, as the christian view promises)
Now why would you do that? Their family members, really? That's a far more interesting thing to say than the original question asked here. Can you explain that? If you can I'll try to explain my answer better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
No, I wouldn't do it.
Well, this is the worst thread I've ever seen, well done.
No I wouldn't do this because I'm not a fucking psychopath. I accept the categorical imperative; "act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law." I believe that human life is valuable. I believe you may not encroach upon the free will of another, unless it is necessary in order to impel them not to act immorally (for instance, wrestling a gun from a hostage taker).
This is not for any selfish reason whatsoever. I find Blueline's answer to be lacking.
I'll second what JussiKala said. I find it horrific that you somehow consider it morally superior to only be compelled to act morally by totally selfish fear of reprimand and desire for reward, or to be told what to do by someone else; as if, without religion, you wouldn't have any motivation, or wouldn't know, that it's wrong to kill.
The most ludicrous thing about it all is that it's not even true. You don't have the morals that you do because of religion. You largely have the morals that you do by your own autonomous reason, just like secular people. I'm hoping you don't think that if a man rapes an unmarried woman, she should be forced to marry him? Presuming you don't, on what basis do you reject this? It's God's word in the Bible (Deuteronomy, I think).
But they werent questions like this, they were questions about their faith, now please give us the real reason you directed this to atheists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
So you're saying that if you didn't think you would be punished, you would torture people? What kind of a horrible person are you?!
And why the hell would you torture the FAMILIES of the criminals? Even if the criminal was the only guilty one, and their family did not know about their misdeeds?
And you consider yourself morally superior?
Carera?Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
WRONG!Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
its not because WE feel bad, thats only 50%. The other is because its NOT RIGHT!
I have reason to believe you are Carera on another computer.
edit: sniped :(
Who says it's not right? That is the point of my thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverlord345
Where do atheists get their morals from!?
I am talking about very Evil criminals whose families have stood up for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ianfort
They need to go, and soon!
No one has to say its not right, it doesnt have to be declared for it to be wrong or right. It just isn't. Where do religious people get their morals?
A simple google search would've told you that but since you're too lazy to do that, the people in this thread can enligthen you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
We do have morals, of course. There's no doubt about it. They most likely are the product of the evolutionary process, in which it was more beneficial for members of species to NOT do harm to others, and as a beneficial trait, passed down generations, in which case morals would be embedded in our instincts. Many atheists hold the view that there is no clear view on what is wrong and what is right (not all ofc), and that it always depends on the situation at hand. . Sometimes it's not so clear what choice would be the least harmful to others. Sometimes there is no winning situation. Our morals are mostly based on what causes others least harm.
How do you know it isn't? People used to think burning witches was a right thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverlord345
Obviously from their scripture, you dummy.Quote:
Where do religious people get their morals?
dont deny you are careraQuote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
religion isnt the only place you get morals, you dont get morals from religion AT ALL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
Quote:
the bible is full of people killing each other, limbs being hacked off for punishments, ridiculously crazy sentences for the most benign and victimless crimes, lots and lots of incest, genocide committed by people in the name of their god and genocide committed by this god thing itself, slavery, sexual slavery of women, childish beliefs about nature and the natural world, sadism and masochistic attitudes of serving a eternal tyrant, blood sacrifices and the list just goes on and on.
Morals come from within, you dont get them by reading a book, then automatically saying, ohhh, I can haz morals.
And you don't get from them from anywhere. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gameoverlord345
Well that's not accurate either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
So, everyone gets them from within, so this thread is useless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
ya know, this could be a good discussion, if only....
she wasn't carera?
I have enough proof to ignore her now. 3 pieces of solid evidence, or 4.
I'm honestly flabbergasted that no one noticed this sooner. The entire personality and obvious trolling just screamed "Carera".Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartiate
That's absolutely disgusting. I sincerely hope you're just playing devil's advocate here for the sake of discussion otherwise you're lack of empathy and morals is truly revolting. =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
I wouldn't torture them. I couldn't care less about the consequences, I simply wouldn't want anyone to go through that. I don't hold much value for money but even if the reward was something I really wanted, I still wouldn't go through with it. The possibility of being punished is irrelevant; intentionally harming an individual (be it physically or emotionally) for your amusement is about as low as you can get.
EDIT: Nevermind, fuck it. Carera.
this new melisa person claims to have lived in Roseburg Oregon AND knows someone as a little girl who lived under a false identity :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Sleeper
It is an obvious answer. You get your morals from being a basic human being. Thousands of years of working together in communities has hardwired human beings to live and work together, and thousands of years of laws and history has taught us that we are all the same and we should be kind to each other for the benefit of everyone. As a human being you have emotions and a brain, and pretty much everyone knows what is right and wrong. Most of us has a thing called empathy, where we can feel for each other. This is due to having a working brain, in which we see someone suffering we can imagine it happening to our self and we feel bad. We can related to one another.
Only a person with deep physiological issues would torture and kill people for money. Even the sick people in government who torture people don't do it for money. They get put in high pressure situation, where they think they need to resort to torture to save lives, and the pressure causes real damage to them, which is why they end up making such poor choices like torture, but even though they have serious issues, even they are not doing it to make a quick buck. And most of them are probably Christians, just because there is a high statistical chance of it.
Even Christians have a strong sense of morals, which is why they ignore everything in the bible. Seriously, most Christians read the bible and say, "Oh this is evil, it must not be literal" and then they ignore it. I think the fact that most Christians do not get their morals from the bible, and actively ignore the bible where it says something stupid, proves that no one is getting their morals from a book.
In the case of the very few people who actually get their morels from a book, they are insane and think we should be stoning and murdering each other for barbaric customs from thousands of years ago. Honestly, I don't think you get your morals from the bible. I think you just said that for the sake of argument. We can prove this by just looking at some things the bible tells you to do.
Would you murder someone who works on Sunday? No, then you have common sense. You didn't get your morals from the bible, you got them from whoever told you that you shouldn't kill people just because they worked on a day that is supposed to be holy.
I get my morels from the forest on the other side of the road.
you guys are once again, satisfying the troll
"edit post"
c: Bleh didnt read far enough i thought this was a serious question :c Naughty trollness
Why is it whenever I point out this person is a troll my post disappears. :/
Because you have been living in a false name in Roseburg Oregon and are now Bashar Al Assad.
Because it is wrong. If you wish to retain any consistency and integrity within your life, you cannot torture that person. Furthermore, the golden rule has immense value so long as most of the population sticks to it. People will be less hasty to harm/torture/kill/ruin the lives of others if they suspect the same will be done to them. Why don't people steal? Because if it were the law of the land, chaos would reign supreme, and everyone would suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisa
You've no idea how frightening this is.Quote:
If I need the money, I would do it. I would also do it for $100,000 bucks.
These are the signs of a psychopath. You would torture innocent people for free? What the hell is wrong with you? Serial killing isn't a trait handed down through generations and isn't caught through marriage. Christ, check yourself into an insane asylum and do the world a favor.Quote:
And as far as very Evil criminals are concerned, I would torture them for free, and their families.
The consequence is having to live with myself. I simply couldn't do it. I could not look myself in the mirror each morning knowing I made another human suffer like that for such a petty thing. It would actually drive me to suicide.Quote:
If you are an atheist in such a scenario, you have nothing to be afraid of. You can do it, without any consequences aside from bad conscience after the event. There is no hindrance here! (And I know more about this than I'm letting on at the moment.).
If you lack that empathy, if you really would torture people for money, you are less deserving of life than the criminals you'd so eagerly murder. Fortunately for you, it is not my decision nor my place to decide who lives, who dies, and under what circumstances a person dies under.
teehee
Melisa is your first name and Carera is your last name ^^
Answer: No, because that person and I share the same source (spacetime, matter, and forces that seem to have emerged out of an infinite point of energy) and so in a sense can be considered one. Hurting them would be hurting myself since we are only inseparable parts of a grander power called Nature.
Previously banned TROLOLOLOLOLOL