Does Evil Exist?

[Boris]

Does evil exist? Did God create evil? The University professor challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!" "God created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes sir", the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil." The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that faith in God was a myth. Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460? F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat." The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does." The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present." Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil. To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God! did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." The professor sat down. The young man's name -- Albert Einstein

[InTheMoment]

First off, Einstein did not say/write that and I challenge you to provide evidence that he did. Second, that tired old tale has been circulating the internet since the summer of 2004. Thirdly, the entire story is a weak argument in proving the existance of an "all-loving" god. It tries to employ duality as a strategic tact to prove that evil can exist in a universe created by an omnibenevolent being. Unfortunately, it does not come close in doing so. Word of advice, before you go cut n pasting something you find "enlightening" do some research on it first.

[wombing]

i've always wondered if einstein actually participated in this much quoted experience, or whether its just a myth... i prefer emerson's treatment of the same topic in his divinity school address http://www.emersoncentral.com/divaddr.htm evil is ignorance of the absolute-christ consciousness, buddha nature, gnosis, enlightenment...all else is merely shades of this primal light, and complete darkness/ignorance does not even exist... "These facts have always suggested to man the sublime creed, that the world is not the product of manifold power, but of one will, of one mind; and that one mind is everywhere active, in each ray of the star, in each wavelet of the pool; and whatever opposes that will, is everywhere balked and baffled, because things are made so, and not otherwise. Good is positive. Evil is merely privative, not absolute: it is like cold, which is the privation of heat. All evil is so much death or nonentity. Benevolence is absolute and real. So much benevolence as a man hath, so much life hath he. For all things proceed out of this same spirit, which is differently named love, justice, temperance, in its different applications, just as the ocean receives different names on the several shores which it washes. All things proceed out of the same spirit, and all things conspire with it. Whilst a man seeks good ends, he is strong by the whole strength of nature. In so far as he roves from these ends, he bereaves himself of power, of auxiliaries; his being shrinks out of all remote channels, he becomes less and less, a mote, a point, until absolute badness is absolute death. " of course, this could all be bullshit

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Asher i've always wondered if einstein actually participated in this much quoted experience, or whether its just a myth... http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

[Boris]

inthemoment that site has about as much authority as your face. Now try countering the points of the argument.....See you know how to search for information. You just don't know how to understand the information. And that's realllly. The most important part. The understanding of the information. Anyone can just find and post stuff...... I do however agree that Einstein probally did not say that for real lol. Sorry to get your athiest feathers roughed up and all. but thats beside the point you moron. I don't care who wrote it. I care about what it ses.

[Burns]

Originally posted by Boris I do however agree that Einstein probally did not say that for real lol. Sorry to get your athiest feathers roughed up and all. but thats beside the point you moron. I don't care who wrote it. I care about what it ses. What makes you think that actually happened at all? It was probably made up to begin with. It reminds me of the religious forwards that my uncle emails me - as soon as I see the word "Jesus" or "God", I just delete it - it's all made up crap not even worth reading.

[Alric]

It shouldn't really matter either way. Since we are talking about evil and not Einstein's personal philosophy. As far as I know he wasn't an expert on religion. Now if that was made by the Pope or something, you might be able to make an arguement for it, but its not so it really doesn't matter. The story has a clear point it is trying to prove, and if your going to argue with it, then you really should stick to that point.

[Burns]

Originally posted by Alric The story has a clear point it is trying to prove, and if your going to argue with it, then you really should stick to that point. I did stick to the point when I said - "it's all made-up crap not even worth reading."

[Jalexxi]

This little revelation is actually some two-and-a-half thousand years old, courtesy of Aristotle. But yeah, I'm also convinced this is fake. It makes for an amusing anecdote, though.

[wombing]

Originally posted by Boris inthemoment that site has about as much authority as your face. Now try countering the points of the argument.....See you know how to search for information. You just don't know how to understand the information. And that's realllly. The most important part. The understanding of the information. * Anyone can just find and post stuff...... * * * I do however agree that Einstein probally did not say that for real lol. Sorry to get your athiest feathers roughed up and all. but thats beside the point you moron. I don't care who wrote it. I care about what it ses. truly, you have a dizzying intellect that's some fine debating... *"Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself[/b] the main breakdown in this argument is the above phrase. it effectively proves the professor's point (that God is responsible for the existence of evil) no thing exists unto itself, except the whole. any part must relate to the whole, or it is incomprehensible (non-existent) to that whole, or any of the whole's constituent parts. every part finds its being only in relation to the whole. and the whole ultimately finds its being only in the sum of its parts. only two separate 'wholes' may exist unto themselves. and in that case, they would not be aware of the other's existence. if something exists unto itself, it cannot be comprehended by something other than itself. relation must have a medium, and a medium joins two things together. hence, the professor is logical in asserting that 'God" created evil. "God" is used in this sense as synonymous with the 'whole', and as evil is unable to exist unto itself (as 'einstein states as his "clincher"), it must exist as a part within the whole. "In the beginning, there was only God". "he" was the whole in its entirety. in your opinion, out of his volition came the myriad of creation, including humans, free will, and evil. the whole is always responsible to accept that each part which composes it is an essential part of its being. God (the whole) without evil or human free will, would cease to be God. although i don't know why i bother writing this. you apparently lack the ability to critically break an argument down into its basic points, or you would see that this "brilliant" argument you found and posted (without understanding its ramifications apparently), only serves to prove the professor's original point. that the whole is always forced to accept each of its parts as a component of its essential, neccessary nature. that God is always forced to accept that each part within his sphere of influence is essential, and neccessary part of 'his' nature. hence, evil is a part of god's nature, and god (as ruler over the whole) is alone responsible. i start to ramble on like leo sometimes, i do declare...

[bradybaker]

The problem is that god created the duality. He created the possibility for evil (or 'absence of god'), darkness and cold to exist knowing fully that man, if given free will, would be subject to such evils. Also, I'm wondering how this fits into your 'oneness' beliefs, Nirva..err, I mean...Boris. From my perspective it doesn't really seem to fit. Please explain my error in judgement if this is not the case.

[Boris]

Originally posted by asher Evil is a part of god's nature Evil cannot exist without ignorance. Brady what are you confused about. It all fits together nicely. Why do you think something doesn't fit in. Explain.

[InTheMoment]

Evil cannot exist without ignorance.[/b] How do you come with this bullshit...oh let me guess, you crack open a fortune cookie and just spew out whatever it says. I think each time you post something, I'll just put the phrase "...in bed" behind it. ~ It is painful when you post dude...really. I mean, I literally cringe when I read your posts. You don't even say anything close to being intelligent, let alone addressing people's post. Asher obviously took some considerable time and effort to refute that "weak & tired" cut n paste spam story and all you can come up with is "Evil cannot exist without ignorance." Give me a break. Brady what are you confused about. It all fits together nicely. Why do you think something doesn't fit in. Explain.[/b] Here you go again. Unable to answer a simple question, so you (once again) try to pass the buck back to the person who has asked you a question. It's obvious you don't have a legitimate response to Brady's question, so you just play dumb and try to answer his question with a question in hopes to buy yourself some more time to come up with more bullshit. Am I wrong?

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Boris Evil cannot exist without ignorance. Brady what are you confused about. It all fits together nicely. Why do you think something doesn't fit in. Explain. I'm confused because the passage you copy and pasted to begin this thread suggests a loving (and therefore personal) god. In past threads, you have repeatedly denounced such a concept of god. If I am interpreting your past or present assertions incorrectly, please feel free to explain the problem. I would prefer and kindly appreciate that you refrain from answering my question with more questions, or insulting my intelligence. Secondly, the original passage is saying that 'evil does not exist'. However, in the above quote, you say 'evil cannot exist without ignorance'...to me this implies that evil DOES exist with ignorance...and what is ignorance? Did god create that? Or is it the absence of intelligence? Finally, I would like you to respond to my point that god created the duality in the first place with full knowledge that man would be exposed to both sides of the coin. He/her/it could've created a triality, quadrality or singularity... Thanks, bradybaker

[Boris]

Originally posted by Inthemoment+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inthemoment)</div> Am I wrong?[/b] Yes you are wrong. I didn't think those posts warranted a reply but ok if you think it is needed. I will explain the obvious. I keep over-estimating your intelligence sorry. <!--QuoteBegin-asher you apparently lack the ability to critically break an argument down into its basic points, or you would see that this "brilliant" argument you found and posted (without understanding its ramifications apparently), only serves to prove the professor's original point. Did you read what was posted cause I can't understand how you can make such a silly post thinking you refuted it. Darknest is the absence of light. It is not something that exists as a thing. Its a result of something absent. Like your intelligence. Your post is the result of the absence of intelligence. You havn't really got stupidity. You only lack intelligence. Stupidity is only the result of the absence of intelligence. Like dark is the absence of light. So it is with Evil. Evil does not exist. It is the absence of intelligence. You will notice that even though inthemoment wanted me to give you a more elaborate reply. It is the same answer. "Evil cannot exist without ignorance" What I am saying here is just repeating the info I cut and pasted in my original post. The fact you did not understand this is evident in your post and my repeating the same points in my own words. Originally posted by brady I'm wondering how this fits into your 'oneness' beliefs Yes everything is ALL one. The answer to your question is simple. I will spell it out for you and Inthemoment aswell. Gods nature is not Evil because Evil does not exist. It is the absence of intelligence that creates what you label Evil. Just as the absence of light creates what you label "dark" So.....you have a major misconception. You think people exist as "Evil". Someone cannot be Evil the way you think of it anymore than they can be stupid. All it is, is a lack of intelligence of some sort creating the effect you percieve. You can turn on the light but you can't turn on the dark. You can only take away the light to create the illusion of dark. Gods nature is good only. You can only take the good away to create the evil as you call it. But it is not a "thing" anymore than darknest is a thing. Intelligence is good and good dominates always. Sorry if you don't like it that's just the way reality is structured. You can't do anything about it. You can only wish it wasn't true. It is true. And it's a greater reality than your insignificant imagination can percieve. With intelligence comes power. With ignorance comes the absence of power. "Evil" as people like to call it. You say Hitler had power? Yes he gained it but remember he also destroyed himself and millions of other people. He was smarter in some ways. Which was his power. But he was caught in illusion in other ways. The illusion he was stuck in was his downfall. That was his ignorance and the cause of his destruction and failure. People say he was Evil now. But back then they were just as caught in his dellusion. And thought he was really good. Except ofcourse churchhill. He was the only one intelligent enough at the time.

[Boris]

Originally posted by brady the passage you copy and pasted to begin this thread suggests a loving (and therefore personal) god. * In past threads, you have repeatedly denounced such a concept of god. Why do you say it's personal. This love is completely impersonal. I never said god was not "good". It is illogical (eg: a contradicting princible nonexistent in reality) to think that duality can exist without the appearance of good in it's absence. Through this you know and understand what you are not. So you can then choose and understand and become what you are. You cannot truly be in existence beyond the construction. That is the great void people say they experience. From what I understand In buddhism it's called attaining nirvana. But it's not nirvana to stay in this state for eternity and that is not the point of evolution of god. God is always moving forward. If you stayed there for eternity it would be extremely boring and futile. That is the very reason you are not there at this moment. Things evolve forward. God makes ALL things new. If what you are is all that exists. You are litrally not. Hence the illusion seems real. That you are not something. It is made real through your experience of it. But the actual existence of something you are not, is an illusion.

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Boris I didn't think those posts warranted a reply but ok if you think it is needed. That's what you get for thinking I guess. How can you NOT think that what Asher posted did not warrant a reply? The only reason you "attempted" to provide a rebuttal, was because I called your bluff. So let's take a look at your response to Asher...and let it be known I'm not trying to answer for Asher, I'm only going to point out the obvious flaws and illogical in your posts. So it is with Evil. Evil does not exist. It is the absence of intelligence. [/b] How is intelligence the opposite of evil? Good is the opposite of evil and stupidity is the lack of intelligence, period. Just because you try to make a correlation between good and intelligence doesn't mean you can just make ridiculous statements like the one above. It is the same answer. "Evil cannot exist without ignorance" [/b] Wrong. Gods nature is not Evil because Evil does not exist. It is the absence of intelligence that creates what you label Evil. Just as the absence of light creates what you label "dark"[/b] You've stated in the past that god is infinite (meaning he is everything). If this is true, then how can their be an absence of god? Contradiction. All it is, is a lack of intelligence of some sort creating the effect you percieve.[/b] Again, wrong. Lack of intelligence does NOT equal evilness, so stop using that false comparison. Intelligence is good and good dominates always. [/b] Only in stories my friend, which is obviously where your reality lies. With intelligence comes power. With ignorance comes the absence of power. "Evil" as people like to call it.[/b] For the third time, people do NOT call evil the absence of power. This is a blatantly false statement and it's amazing that you still latch on to this false notion. You say Hitler had power? Yes he gained it but remember he also destroyed himself and millions of other people. He was smarter in some ways. Which was his power. But he was caught in illusion in other ways. The illusion he was stuck in was his downfall. That was his ignorance and the cause of his destruction and failure. People say he was Evil now. But back then they were just as caught in his dellusion. And thought he was really good.[/b] LOL, where do get your history from? Hopefully not from those same New Age - Oneness Principle sites. Nirvana ignore my last post (in another thread) about going away. If you left us, I wouldn't get as much amusement as I do from you. I know it's wrong to get pleasure from retarted people, but I'm an ass...what can I say. ~

[Boris]

Originally posted by Inthemoment You've stated in the past that god is infinite (meaning he is everything). If this is true, then how can their be an absence of god? Contradiction. There is not an absence of god. Evil does not exist. Have you done a magic eye. That's called an illusion. Do you really think those pictures jump out of the page for real. It's your perception. Do you think any sane person percieves themself as Evil? Please explain to me how evil (as it is percieved) can exist without ignorance. If you can't. Stop pretending you are making a valid point when you have nothing to refute it with. Since evil cannot exist without ignorance. When only Intelligence is present. Only good dominates. To the degree of ignorance then is evil. And to the degree of intelligence is good.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by In the original passage+ Boris--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(In the original passage &#064; Boris)</div> Evil is simply the absence of God.[/b] <!--QuoteBegin-In his most recent post@ Boris There is not an absence of god.

[InTheMoment]

Edit: I'm glad you caught that Brady...lol, I was just in the process of posting the exact same thing. I snooze, I lose. ~

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Boris Please explain to me how evil (as it is percieved) can exist without ignorance. Perceived by whom? What constitutes something being evil? How can something not be evil if it is intelligent? Until you answer these questions, don't go making such blatantly absurd comparisons. I rather enjoy employing your rebuttal method...it's quite refreshing. ~ PS - yeah I double posted...sue me.

[Boris]

Originally posted by brady +--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brady )</div> <!--QuoteBegin-In the original passage boris There is not an absence of god. [/b] I said Evil does not exist. what is the problem. Are you stupid?

[wombing]

Evil is simply the absence of God. [/b] There is not an absence of god. * [/b] Evil does not exist. Are you stupid? [/b] seriously bro. if you can't work out what anyone with a shred of logic sees as contradictory in these posts, you shouldn't be even attempting to debate its almost hard to believe you are being serious...

[InTheMoment]

He's always been like that...Nirvana is as Nirvana does. ~

[Boris]

Originally posted by Inthemoment [1] Perceived by whom? [2] What constitutes something being evil? [3] How can something not be evil if it is intelligent? 1) Perceived by anyone whos perception sees Evil in a thing/being. 2)Anything that is backwards evolution wise 3) What I mean by Intelligence is the knowledge of the laws of reality and the wisdom to use them. With this comes the power. What works is "good". Because good is anything that progresses evolution forward. Evil does not progress evolution foward so it is neither intelligent nor good. 3 strikes and your out okay. Or three genie questions or whatever you want to call it. Don't come back I'm tired of replying to you. Your not my student fuck off. Not the words of an enlightened being you expect to hear is it. The hint is I don't give a shit. I know your motives they suck.