The world is flat. -- Luke 4:5, Revelations 7:1

[Universal Mind]

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world." Luke 4:5 "After this I saw the four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree." Revelations 7:1

[Gawain]

Oh hell yeah. Google Earth is a complete conspiracy. The world's governments are keeping people from believing that the world is flat to protect them from venturing off the edge. What the hell happened to Emelia Earhart? She was one that slipped through the government's fingers. She was the real first one in space in fact. The Bermuda Triangle is one of the corners... there lies the key to space. The Hubble space telescope was sent to the Bermuda triangle and is now located somewhere above Sri Lanka. Oh crap, the Feds are knocking on my door! You know the tru

[Amethyst Star]

Let's sing the "Out of Context" song! ....(although taken in a sarcastic way, I suppose that might be borderline amusing)

[LunarMoon]

By Biblical scholars, Revelations is generally regarded as merely a metaphor to Emporer Nero's fall and the verse you took from Luke doesn't seem to actually suggest that the Earth is flat.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by LunarMoon By Biblical scholars, Revelations is generally regarded as merely a metaphor to Emporer Nero's fall and the verse you took from Luke doesn't seem to actually suggest that the Earth is flat. oh snap!

[spoon]

Originally posted by LunarMoon the verse you took from Luke doesn't seem to actually suggest that the Earth is flat. Well, I suppose either it suggests the earth is flat or it doesn't. Both are equally valid interpretations. Do you have any reason that it shouldn't be taken literally, which would be that you can see the whole world from a high place? Of course, we know you can't see the whole world from a high place. But then again we also know corpses don't get up and walk around after three days...

[Lonewolf]

Originally posted by Universal Mind "The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world." Luke 4:5 "After this I saw the four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree." Revelations 7:1 Firstly, Luke 4:5 was merely a vision that the Devil made Jesus to see. Second of all, when it speaks in the bible the number 4, it is symbolic. (Just like #7 symbolizes perfection, #10 symbolizes completion, etc.). The #4 in the bible sometimes expressed universalness or foursquareness in symmetry and form. Its found 3 times in Revelations, such as "the four angels" and "the four winds," The new Jeruselem is "foursquare," equal in every dimension, being in fact cubical in shape. It goes the same for "the four corners of the earth." On the contrast, the bible mentioned the earth being round: Isaiah 40:22: ...There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Amethyst Star Let's sing the "Out of Context" song! ....(although taken in a sarcastic way, I suppose that might be borderline amusing) So the right context is the one that supports your beliefs perfectly right?

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Lonewolf Firstly, Luke 4:5 was merely a vision that the Devil made Jesus to see. Second of all, when it speaks in the bible the number 4, it is symbolic. (Just like #7 symbolizes perfection, #10 symbolizes completion, etc.). The #4 in the bible sometimes expressed universalness or foursquareness in symmetry and form. Its found 3 times in Revelations, such as "the four angels" and "the four winds," The new Jeruselem is "foursquare," equal in every dimension, being in fact cubical in shape. It goes the same for "the four corners of the earth." On the contrast, the bible mentioned the earth being round: Isaiah 40:22: ...There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth" Thanks for your response. So "four corners" suggests "foursquareness"? I am not sure where you get that, but I will say that if the Bible suggests that the earth is a cube, it is incorrect. I am not sure how the earth could possibly have four corners. Also, the earth is not a circle. It is a sphere, so it makes no sense to talk about being above the circle of the earth. It makes no sense to talk about being "above" a sphere in space. It would make sense to talk about being above a flat earth. It sounds to me like one of the authors thought the earth is a flat square and another thought it is a flat circle. As for Luke 4:5 being about a vision, I don't see how that is relevant. In the vision, the devil showed Jesus all of the kingdoms of the earth from a high place. So in the vision, the earth was flat. Why would the vision involve a flat earth if the earth is not supposedly flat? It would be odd if the Bible spoke of Jesus' having a misrepresentation of reality in a vision. And why didn't the verse mention that the vision involved a nonrepresentational flat earth? Originally posted by Amethyst Star Let's sing the "Out of Context" song! ....(although taken in a sarcastic way, I suppose that might be borderline amusing) Before you do that, could you elaborate on at least some level? Originally posted by Gawain Oh hell yeah. Google Earth is a complete conspiracy. The world's governments are keeping people from believing that the world is flat to protect them from venturing off the edge. What the hell happened to Emelia Earhart? She was one that slipped through the government's fingers. She was the real first one in space in fact. The Bermuda Triangle is one of the corners... there lies the key to space. The Hubble space telescope was sent to the Bermuda triangle and is now located somewhere above Sri Lanka. Oh crap, the Feds are knocking on my door! You know the tru Now we're talking! I'm glad somebody here knows what's REALLY going on!

[LunarMoon]

Originally posted by spoon Well, I suppose either it suggests the earth is flat or it doesn't. Both are equally valid interpretations. Do you have any reason that it shouldn't be taken literally, which would be that you can see the whole world from a high place? Of course, we know you can't see the whole world from a high place. But then again we also know corpses don't get up and walk around after three days... It is a common misconception that people of antiquity believed the Earth to be flat. However, by the time of Pliny the Elder in the 1st century, it was generally acknowledged that the Earth was indeed round. One would think that a doctor such as Luke would know of this. In short, the passage is purely metaphorical in its main points being the devils temptation stating that Jesus could have all kingdoms found on the Earth if he succumbed. The visual narrative is clearly not to be taken literally. There's little that would lead me to think otherwise.

[Amethyst Star]

First off, I apologize for my lack of tact. But moving on.... So the right context is the one that supports your beliefs perfectly right? [/b] Are you saying I'm wrong? With Luke 4:5, that verse takes place in the story where the Devil is tempting Jesus, trying to get him to sin. There isn't any discussion about the formation of the earth that would lead me to believe that this verse would support such a statement. And Revelation is a book of prophecy dealing with the future and is written in a way that we could visualize what John saw and understand the meaning of it. It's not always meant to be taken literally. One could try to prove that the moon is round by using the following verse: Isaiah 3:18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon... Coincidentally the moon is round, but the same principle applies.... but then that leads to the arguement of what should be taken literally and what should be taken figuratively. *steps out*

[syzygy]

Originally posted by spoon Well, I suppose either it suggests the earth is flat or it doesn't. Both are equally valid interpretations. Do you have any reason that it shouldn't be taken literally, which would be that you can see the whole world from a high place? Of course, we know you can't see the whole world from a high place. But then again we also know corpses don't get up and walk around after three days... A misinterpretation is not a valid interpretation. Is there any reason to interpret is literally? It does not make any sense to do that. The Bible is a spiritual book that deals with spiritual truths. Any physical event that corresponds to the spiritual event is merely a mimesis that has manifested itself and matters little compared to the spiritual event (which takes "place" outside of space and time). btw, was there some point to this thread?

[LunarMoon]

Originally posted by syzygy btw, was there some point to this thread? It’s seemingly an attempt to poke holes in the validity of the Bible by exposing inaccuracies.

[Lonewolf]

Excuse me, I didnt mean to put that example about jerusulem being cubical. According to a book I read called Insight on the Scriptures, the # 4 is often used to denote that which is fully rounded out, as it were, just as we have four directions and sometimes employ the expressions "to the ends of the earth." to "the four corners of the earth," in the sence of embracing all the earth. There are some scriptures you can compare. One is in Ezekiel 1:15-17. As I kept seeing the living creatures, why, look! there was one wheel on the earth beside the living creatures, by the four faces of each. 16 As for the appearance of the wheels and their structure, it was like the glow of chrys´o·lite; and the four of them had one likeness. And their appearance and their structure were just as when a wheel proved to be in the midst of a wheel. 17 When they went they would go on their four respective sides. They would not turn another way when they went. (So there was four wheels but they were turned slightly in the middle of each, still being rounded) Also Luke 13:29 shows what is means by "four corners: Furthermore, people will come from eastern parts and western, and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. The vision of all the kingdoms that Satan allowed Jesus to see was just to show that Satan had control of the whole world. So he was able to let him see in a miraculous way And concerning "the circle of the earth," the hebrew word is chugh, which could also mean "sphere," as certain translations show. Theres also a website I found that goes into the shape of the earth: http://www.tektonics.org/af/earthshape.html

[Howie]

How big in size was this world back then?

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Amethyst Star So the right context is the one that supports your beliefs perfectly right? Are you saying I'm wrong?[/b] Not necessarily. I was pointing out the major flaw with belief based on text. All texts have to be interpreted contextually, and as far as I can tell the right context is whichever one happens to support your belief structure the best. If we lived in a time when the world was still believed to be flat, people could and would use those passages to support their claims. Give me a consistent mechanism to interpret passages and I might stop ignoring the Bible altogether.