The Hipocracy Of Christianity

[Hominus Feralis]

I've read the bible cover to cover twice, and all i read is jesus preaching about being humble and forgiving, which will lead to salvation. Why, then, do christians wear ther fanciest and most expensive clothes to a multi-million dollor structure to worship? Do you think god is happy with you for dressing up? I think, if he did exist, that he would want you to worship him in a dirty hut with rags on so all the proceeds could go to the poor, and not to extentions and additions to the massive church building. So what do you think? Are christians hypocrits for using the bible as a shield and not following it? I know what everyone is going to say (at least the christians). They will say "well, thats just our way of pledging alleigence to god", or "god wants us to put our reasourses to work for him". yet again, my friends, READ THE BIBLE. I am SO SICK of people telling me what god wants me to do. Has anyone here spoken to god? And if anyone here says "yes, in prayer" you are a moron. I mean face to face. If not, you do NOT know what he wants. My best guess is he wants you to be humble and selfless all your life. Atheists, help me out here. Christians, explain yourselves

[Neruo]

I am actually planning on reading the bible myself. There are so many faults in the actual texts, and so many faults in the way christians say they follow it by heart, but actually just do what is most convenient for themselves. I agree that alot of christians are hypocritical to be so materialistic. If you truely believe you should be glad with a bare minumum of wealth and then spend your energy on helping the poor, like jesus in the bible. My problem is that most christians are just as materialistic and simple-minded as most of the population, but they are allso hypocritical to think they are superior to other people.

[Hominus Feralis]

Exactly. They act like that because of saftey in numbers. Its easier to conform when 85 percernt or more of America does the same. They are extremely materialistic and hide behind the bible for every thing they do wrong. I think that Christians dont give up their materialistic lifestyles because deep down they are not too sure about their religion. If i absolutely believed in God and heaven i would give up my shit in a heartbeat, in exchange for eternity in the biggets party you'll ever see (heaven) Most christians do have doubts, even though they might not say they do. If they didnt have doubts, everyone would give up 70 years of miserable life in exchange for eternal reward. And christianity these days is not like it has always been. They devout a mere hour every week in exhange for a "ticket", if you will, into a social club, called christianity. saftey in numbers+materialistic lifestyle+doubts=modern christianity

[TheDreamer]

I (being a Christian myself) would agree that many Christians (myself included) act hypocritically at times, sometimes more than others. It is related to the fact that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23 (English Standard Version). Anyways, you should check out a book called The Irrestible Revolution by Shain Clairborne and a website called www.thesimpleway.org These are Christians who try to literally follow the example of Jesus. I do not think that a Chrsitian is necessarily called to give up all worldly posessions but they are called to have ministry wherever they are in life. If there weren't some Christians who were wealthy what Christian would be able to talk to wealthy people?

[Leo Volont]

Yes, you are not the first person in the history of the World to suppose that being humble must mean to be dirty, rank, filthy and stinking. You think that Christians are hypocrits, but there you are wrong. It was the Christian belief in the Importance of Filth and Stink that kept the hygienic standards for Europeans so dismally negligent until rather recently. Even now, the French have a tendency to still be overly 'humble' in their personal habits. Being in the Northern Latitudes must have been a saving grace for them, as a warmer climate combined with the same hygienic carelessness would have ended in devastating disease and the Christian Civilization would have died of a self-inflicted Genocide of filth and 'humility'. But why is it anyway that humility must be equated to carelessness and filth? The other Higher Religions can instruct against Arrogance and a Pride and still allow that people might keep their cloths clean and in repair. Also, it becomes something of a perversion of sense when Filthy and Torn Cloths become a Uniform of Sorts. Is it REALLY Humble when somebody washes a new pair of genes a hundred times in strong bleach in order to artifically age and 'distress' them, and then to take razors to them carefully enough to cut the weave so that holes will tatter and unwind. All to create a humble appearance. And such worked over genes must cost ten times what a new blue pair would cost. But Filth should never be a pretence. Are we to be impressed with somebody's spirituality because they can't bother themselves to bath or to plan on doing their laundry the day before Church and not the day afterward? But you love stinking people as I suppose you must love to stink yourself. And so convenient. While other people have to work hard toward their achievements, all you need to do is, well, nothing. Nothing but sit and fester, rot and decay. Reminds me of the story about the two Hippies. One says to the other "Did you shit yourself again? You Stink! When are going to clean yourself?" And the other replied, "I haven't finished yet". I suppose that is your problem. You haven't finished yet.

[Hominus Feralis]

no leo, the trick is to make your money, and THEN give it up to the poor. Starting out poor is not sacrificing anything. Thats just being lazy

[Leo Volont]

poor...Thats just being lazy [/b] So now poor people are all just lazy. Somehow that was not what I remember Jesus saying in the Sermon of the Mount. "You Poor People are just phuquing lazy". Oh... this is your Conservative Politics seeping out again. Like sewage.

[Universal Mind]

Does God really look at humongous churches and say, "Wow, that is so big. They must really like me."? Or does he say, "Uh, that money could have fed a lot of my children."? I'm sorry for sounding like a Democrat because I am far from that, but I don't understand why some churches have to be outrageously big to impress God when Christianity does not preach the country club lifestyle. I also don't understand dressing up to go to church. Does God say, "Hey, they look really nice on this occasion. I am flattered."? Would something/one so far beyond our silly little cultures really get impressed over something as ridiculous as a tie? And last and most of all, what in the world is up with that horrible singing in church? How is performing the most pitiful music on the entire planet supposed to flatter God? A room full of white protestants singing is the one thing that makes Michael Bolton sound like the Greek mythology sirens. If you are going to sound like that for God, don't bother putting on the coat and tie.

[Leo Volont]

Does God really look at humongous churches and say, "Wow, that is so big. They must really like me."? Or does he say, "Uh, that money could have fed a lot of my children."? I'm sorry for sounding like a Democrat because I am far from that, but I don't understand why some churches have to be outrageously big to impress God when Christianity does not preach the country club lifestyle. I also don't understand dressing up to go to church. Does God say, "Hey, they look really nice on this occasion. I am flattered."? Would something/one so far beyond our silly little cultures really get impressed over something as ridiculous as a tie? And last and most of all, what in the world is up with that horrible singing in church? How is performing the most pitiful music on the entire planet supposed to flatter God? A room full of white protestants singing is the one thing that makes Michael Bolton sound like the Greek mythology sirens. If you are going to sound like that for God, don't bother putting on the coat and tie. [/b] Poor People are not fed by money falling from the sky, and they certainly not fed because Society does not build the very Institutions meant to inculcate Charity and Social Benevolence. It is a Paradox that you propose, that Society will care for the poor by NOT having any Churches. The greatest civilized accomplishment of the High Middle Ages was the Thousand Cathedrals of France. Not Sports Stadiums, like the Romans. The Grand Archetecture today is huge corporate office buildings where people go to slave their lives away. But in a civilization they had grandiose Cathedrals. After the collapse of Catholic Civilization the efforts would then go into Opera Houses. But was there any widespread poverty in the France of the Thousand Cathedrals? No, not really. The Guilds were prosperous. The land was secure -- the Serfs had hereditary right to their land and could not be legally displaced. Those people without land or occupation could join into the numerous Religious Orders. You see Religion and Civilization had been their support, and in many cases the Work that had gone into the Cathedrals had been their occupations. We can look at the most miserable societies in the world, victimized by predatory capitalism, or their own homegrown versions of predatory class warfare from above and counterattacked from below, and the problem there is not an excess of Religion. Indeed, the first priority of all the worst predators is to denounce Religion. And you think it is some coincidence that that worst people find religion to be an obstacle to their Plans. Like yourself. What evil do you have in mind that you find you need to attack Religion.

[Hominus Feralis]

i dont attack the religion, i attack the people.

[Universal Mind]

Poor People are not fed by money falling from the sky, and they certainly not fed because Society does not build the very Institutions meant to inculcate Charity and Social Benevolence. It is a Paradox that you propose, that Society will care for the poor by NOT having any Churches. The greatest civilized accomplishment of the High Middle Ages was the Thousand Cathedrals of France. Not Sports Stadiums, like the Romans. The Grand Archetecture today is huge corporate office buildings where people go to slave their lives away. But in a civilization they had grandiose Cathedrals. After the collapse of Catholic Civilization the efforts would then go into Opera Houses. But was there any widespread poverty in the France of the Thousand Cathedrals? No, not really. The Guilds were prosperous. The land was secure -- the Serfs had hereditary right to their land and could not be legally displaced. Those people without land or occupation could join into the numerous Religious Orders. You see Religion and Civilization had been their support, and in many cases the Work that had gone into the Cathedrals had been their occupations. We can look at the most miserable societies in the world, victimized by predatory capitalism, or their own homegrown versions of predatory class warfare from above and counterattacked from below, and the problem there is not an excess of Religion. Indeed, the first priority of all the worst predators is to denounce Religion. And you think it is some coincidence that that worst people find religion to be an obstacle to their Plans. Like yourself. What evil do you have in mind that you find you need to attack Religion. [/b] You apparently did not read much of my post. I said that I am no Democrat. Did you catch that? I said nothing even close to the point that there is poverty because money is spent on churches. Read again. What I said is that Christianity preaches one thing, and many Christians do the opposite. Spending money on skyscraper churches when it could be spent on the poor goes against the teachings of Jesus, not my own personal political philosophy. Using the temple for materialistic purposes caused the one temper tantrum Jesus had in the Bible. Right? Why do I attack religion? Because this is a religion discussion forum and I disagree with religion. It is fun to talk about and learn about, but I don't do it with unwilling participants. I do it with willing conversationalists who are civil, informative people who are true to their Christianity and also with bitter hypocrites like you.

[dreammask]

Why, then, do christians wear ther fanciest and most expensive clothes to a multi-million dollor structure to worship?[/b] Materialistic culture. Do you think god is happy with you for dressing up? I think, if he did exist, that he would want you to worship him in a dirty hut with rags on so all the proceeds could go to the poor, and not to extentions and additions to the massive church building.[/b] I don't God cares one bit about what you wear to church. I think simple buildings that serve the purpose and size of the congregation are good enough. I also like the beautiful churches of the past... if somebody feels like building things that are great and beautiful will show reverence to God, that's cool... as long as they help the poor too. Has anyone here spoken to god? And if anyone here says "yes, in prayer" you are a moron. I mean face to face. If not, you do NOT know what he wants. My best guess is he wants you to be humble and selfless all your life.[/b] I talked to god once (I won't go into details... but I was not on drugs and it was face-to-face...), and s/he just told me about the things I was supposed to do, like help the people I'm close to. S/he didn't say anything about the war in Iraq.

[Hominus Feralis]

atleast you understand what the bible wants from humanity, dreammask. and about you talking to god. Are you SURE nobody sliped a couple hits of acid into your coffee

[dreammask]

atleast you understand what the bible wants from humanity, dreammask.[/b] Not really... just what my gods want from me... I dunno what they want with the rest of y'all. and about you talking to god. Are you SURE nobody sliped a couple hits of acid into your coffee [/b] If it WERE a possibility, it would have been much easier to explain to people... Me: "whoa... that was really weird... now let's go over the possibilities of me being insane or under the influence of something... check, check, check.. nope, ok, I'm officially weirded out. Ahhhh!!!"

[deadly4u]

I've read the bible cover to cover twice, and all i read is jesus preaching about being humble and forgiving, which will lead to salvation. Why, then, do christians wear ther fanciest and most expensive clothes to a multi-million dollor structure to worship? Do you think god is happy with you for dressing up? I think, if he did exist, that he would want you to worship him in a dirty hut with rags on so all the proceeds could go to the poor, and not to extentions and additions to the massive church building. So what do you think? Are christians hypocrits for using the bible as a shield and not following it? I know what everyone is going to say (at least the christians). They will say "well, thats just our way of pledging alleigence to god", or "god wants us to put our reasourses to work for him". yet again, my friends, READ THE BIBLE. I am SO SICK of people telling me what god wants me to do. Has anyone here spoken to god? And if anyone here says "yes, in prayer" you are a moron. I mean face to face. If not, you do NOT know what he wants. My best guess is he wants you to be humble and selfless all your life. Atheists, help me out here. Christians, explain yourselves [/b] You know, i was ready to explain this. HOWEVER youve already explained it magically. Im Atheist, and i FULL HEARTEDLY AGREE WITH YOU 100% (ive read the bible) Dont laden me with an explanation, im not coming back to read it.

[Leo Volont]

i dont attack the religion, i attack the people. [/b] Sometimes one needs to attack the Religion, if it is entirely wrong. Take Paulist Protestantism as an example. It is a Religion that makes its practicianers vow that they are Sinners, and that assures them their sins are forgiven. Then it tells them that if they can become Rich and Powerful than this is the Sure Sign that God had Elected them to Salvation, but if they are poor, then they have been chosen as the Reprobate, to be damned no matter their Righteousness. Indeed, any voluntary Righteousness is seen as an assertion of lack of faith, a boast before God, an effort to Earn heaven which can only be received by Grace, and by those who least deserve it. In that case, the Religion would deserve the attack, wouldn't it?

[Leo Volont]

You apparently did not read much of my post. I said that I am no Democrat. Did you catch that? I said nothing even close to the point that there is poverty because money is spent on churches. Read again. What I said is that Christianity preaches one thing, and many Christians do the opposite. Spending money on skyscraper churches when it could be spent on the poor goes against the teachings of Jesus, not my own personal political philosophy. Using the temple for materialistic purposes caused the one temper tantrum Jesus had in the Bible. Right? Why do I attack religion? Because this is a religion discussion forum and I disagree with religion. It is fun to talk about and learn about, but I don't do it with unwilling participants. I do it with willing conversationalists who are civil, informative people who are true to their Christianity and also with bitter hypocrites like you. [/b] Where did Christ EVER preach that the Temple of Solomon should be torn down to pay for a barbecue? One can study Biblical History and come across with the impression that the Temple of Solomon was the Grandest and, indeed, the most expensive all structures ever erected by the Hebrews. Christ had taught in this same Temple when he was 12 and even in youthful bravado did not speek against the Temple. And later in life the only act of overt violence that we have ever heard attributed to Christ was when he felt the Temple was being desicrated. So, please, let us know the source of Revelation that tells us that Christ was for the destruction of Every Shrine, Temple or Religious Building ever built or ever to be built. This will be fascinating? There are some traditions that say that Christ survived the Crucifixion and simply moved onto Damascus, outside the Roman Empire and its jurisdiction. In Old Age He was invited to be Keynote Speeker at the 3rd World Buddhist Conference being held in Srinigar in the Kaskmir. This was to be a large affair and their were not enough buildings to host for all of the events and visitors. So, today, in Srinigar in the Kashmir we can find ancient structures with engravings that say such and such Structures, in the whatever year of the reign of whoever, have been dedicated by "Iseus King of the Lepers". Jesus is being referred to by his remarkable ability to heal leperosy. So, not in his youth, was Christ against Religious Structures. Not in his Manhood. And not in his Old Age. But you think Christ came as the Destroyer and Pillager, all so a few candlesticks could be sold so that the beggers could leave off begging for one or maybe two days. Oh, and who said this -- "The Poor will always be with us". Christ said this when it was objected that money was being spent on Religious Show and Display. Well then. And so you think that you have another verse somewhere where Christ will disagree with himself and be heard to say "Burn down the Missions. The Poor and Hungry and will eat the Ashes of Institutionalized eligion". Yes, show us that verse.

[Universal Mind]

Jesus might have condoned the existence of churches, but he was against using the church for materialistic purposes. He was pissed that people were using the temple to make money. That was how they desecrated the sanctity of the temple. That is why building, as I said earlier-- skyscraper churches, seems to be opposed to the teachings of Jesus. Turning church into a business is the problem. And building skyscraper churches is generally about business. The stuff about destroying and pillaging is quite a leap. You have a bad habit of that. Do you keep forgetting to take your lithium? I keep seeing you engage in one manic blastoff after another. You really should take your medication. Where did you get this stuff about Jesus walking away from his grave to attend some Buddhism convention? What verse is that?

[Leo Volont]

Where did you get this stuff about Jesus walking away from his grave to attend some Buddhism convention? What verse is that? [/b] The scholarship exists. I am a scholar. Why don't you go to Srinagar and take a look at the cornerstones themselves. There are dictionaries near by which will allow you to do your own translation. But there is a remarkable book -- "Jesus Lived in India" by Holger Kersten. First he points out that the Israel/Judah Hebrews were not the primary Hebrew Community -- that Judah was NOT the promised land. The Larger Hebrew Community was in Northern India. He showed the existence of early biblical place names. And he showed using census data from thousands of years ago that Jewish names had been quite common in that Northern Indian region. Every third boy was named Moses. Then he documents the movements of Jesus after the crucifixion. Once he left the jurisdicitons of the Roman Empire, they really didn't care. And Peter and the Apostles were just as happy to pretend the Boss was dead so, guess why, so they could be Boss. The Boss is Dead; Long Live the New Boss. The Author was even able to find a Tomb. If you really respect Jesus, maybe you should visit his tomb.

[Universal Mind]

But there is a remarkable book -- "Jesus Lived in India" by Holger Kersten. [/b] The scholarship exists. I am a scholar. [/b] :yumdumdoodledum: Oh my God! You are such a crackpot! Did the state mental hospital drop you off at the library by the computer room? Please make me laugh like this some more! There is a book called Jesus Was Abducted By the Muppets of Orion. It has credibility. I am a scholar. :yumdumdoodledum: