Who Created God

[dattaswami]

Who created God God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable. Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul. For the sake of entertainment, God desired to create the Universe. This statement is in Veda (Sa dviteeya Maicchat). In this statement there is a very subtle intermediate stage, which is the essence of the desire to create the Universe. The desire to create the world is like the golden ornament but the essence of such desire is like the raw gold in which the ornament is not yet expressed. Such raw essence of the desire is pure awareness. The pure awareness is a special subtle form of energy, which is not qualified by any form. Such pure awareness is called as the spirit, which is not qualified and does not have any attribute. This is called as “Nirguna Brahman”, which means the pure awareness, which has no reference to the creation of the universe. It is a very critical and subtle point to recognize the pure awareness. Veda says that only very very sharp intelligence can grasp that critical state (Drushyate Tvagraya bhuddhya). Sankara, the topmost genius among the spiritual preachers could grasp that state and proposed the concept of Nirguna Brahman or non-qualified pure awareness. Such pure awareness is the first creation of God (Parabrahman). This first creation is almost as critical and unimaginable as the very Parabrahman itself. The only difference is that Parabrahman is absolutely unimaginable for any sharp intelligence, but this pure awareness is imaginable only for a very sharp intelligence. This pure awareness is called as Mula Prakriti or Suddha Sattvam or Mula Avidya or Mula Maya or the Spirit in general. The Parabrahman maintains such spirit and it is only an associated item and is the first created item. The word Mula means the first. This spirit is in the form of knowledge. It is aware of itself, which means that it is knowledge. Knowledge requires both subjective and objective characteristics. It is subject as well as the object. Therefore, it is called as knowledge or Sattvam. This knowledge is the first form of energy. Energy is always active. Action is the characteristic of Rajas. Such Spirit is unaware of its own creator who is the God. Therefore, it is having ignorance or Tamas. Thus, the Knowledge itself is action and ignorance. According to Gita Knowledge is Sattvam (Sattvaat Sanjayate Jnanam), action is Rajas (Rajah Karmani) and Ignorance is Tamas (Tamastva Jnanajam). Thus these three qualities are always inseparable. The pure knowledge (Suddha Sattvam) itself is pure action (Suddha Rajas), which is the pure ignorance (Suddha Tamas). Thus in the very first instant itself the three qualities are created simultaneously in the purest state. Since all these three co-exist, it is called as equilibrium of the three qualities. When the equilibrium is disturbed various items of awareness result in which the three qualities exist in various proportions. Such disturbance of the equilibrium resulting in various distorted items of the three qualities is the very creation. The various mixtures of these three qualities constitute this diversified universe, which is meant for the play of the God and for His entertainment. When the entertainment is over all the three qualities go into the equilibrium state. Thus the Universe is converted into Mula Prakruti. God is in association with this Mula Prakruti in the beginning. At this stage the Mula Prakruti is only a creation or created item and cannot do anything further. Its equilibrium continues. In fact the Mula Prakruti is only inert and the continuation of such equilibrium is the inertia. God enters the Mula Prakruti and pervades it. Now this Mula Prakruti is electrified wire. It is the ignited stick and is called as fire. Now this Mula Prakruti becomes divine and is called as Brahman or the Holy Spirit. The Spirit, which is just the inert created item became Holy due to the existence of God in it. Now Brahman multiplies its little part of the Mula Prakruti in which, Parabrahman does not exist. This means that God enters ninety nine percent of Mula Prakruti and not one percent. This little part of un-divine Mula Prakruti is multiplied by the disturbed equilibrium and the Universe appears. Thus, the pure awareness in which God pervaded becomes Brahman. Now Brahman becomes the spectator of the Universe. The little pure awareness into which God did not enter is modified into the Universe in which God does not exist. Here the modification does not mean materialization. The modification means the undisturbed equilibrium being converted into disturbed equilibrium. In both the states the substance is only awareness. You can compare this to a day-dreamer’s mind. The mind of the day-dreamer is Mula Prakruti. A little part of the mind is converted into dream. The mind, which is not converted, is a spectator of the dream. The dreamer is identified with the spectator part of the mind. Thus the dreamer is witnessing the dream through his unmodified mind. The dreamer has not entered the dream and therefore is not multiplied. When the dream city is burning neither the spectator part of the mind is burnt nor the dreamer. The spectator part of the mind itself can be treated as the dreamer because the dreamer entered that spectator part of the mind and exists in it. Thus, Brahman, the spectator of the Universe can be treated as Parabrahman. Such Parabrahman who is the spectator of the Universe is called as Eeshwara. Thus, Parabrahman is the original unimaginable creator. Mula Prakrithi is the first created item, which is the pure awareness. Brahman is the major part of pure awareness in which Parabrahman entered and occupied it. The same Brahman enjoying the Universe by vision is called as Eeshwara. Neither Parabrahman nor Brahman nor the Eeswara has entered the Universe, which is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities. Thus, there is no disturbance in either Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara. In Christianity God is Parabrahman. Brahman and Eeshwara are called as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the substance with which the Universe is made of. The spirit is not Holy because God did not occupy it. Thus the Universe is not Holy in Toto. It is Holy with reference to the good devotees and the divine incarnations. It is unholy with reference to bad living beings and Saturn. Parabrahman who is a spectator for sometime develops a desire to enter this Universe in the form of a living being especially as a human being because the main aim is to preach the divine knowledge. Veda says the same (Tadevaanu Praavishat). This divine human being in which, Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara exists is called as human incarnation or God in Flesh. The human incarnation consists of four items. The first item is God. The second item is the Mula Prakruti, which is the pure awareness or Brahman or Aatman or Karana Sareeram (Casual Body). The third item is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities called as Jeeva or Sukshma Sareera (Subtle Body). The fourth item is the Gross body made of five elements (Sthula Sareera) which is again imaginary only in view of God but a materialized form in view of other human beings. If you analyse any ordinary living being it contains all the three bodies except God. If we analyse any inert item of the world it contains only the Gross Body made of the five elements. God should be understood as the unimaginable creator. Next God can be understood as the unimaginable spectator of the world. Lastly, God should be understood as the unimaginable actor who has entered the Universal Drama in the form of Human Incarnation.

[Invader]

Actually, you can explain it in simpler terms. God is not of our universe, and it is our universe that the laws of 'creation' exist. Here, one thing can only exist if it was created. God is of a dimension without those rules, and that's why its so difficult for us to percieve. We were concieved here, and here is the only place we have trully experienced. As such, it is as if these rules and laws of physics were etched into our bones, everything for us has to have a beginning and an end.

[27]

i belive God was once as man is now. I also belive we have the opportunnity to become Gods and Goddesses ourselfs. We, like God, have no beginning or end.

[shark!]

27...that is the most optimistic thing I have ever heard.

[jahwarrior]

27...that is the most optimistic thing I have ever heard. [/b] i agree

[27]

Lol, Well thats good I guess, It's what my church teaches.

[mountain]

Lol, Well thats good I guess, It's what my church teaches. [/b] ur church that u created? nice ive got a church now to. its called the church of minding ur p's and q's. the central mystery of my church is where that expression came from oh shit i forgot i know where it came from there goes my church. but anyway my church teaches that u go through life doing whatever the fuck u want not bothering anybody but not being bothered either. we just dont care. if a gay person is in my church they dont have an opinion on gay marriage. they dont debate it. if they want to get gay married (butt-buddies) they just do it, they dont care what anybody else says. if someone wants to get an abortion they dont be like its my right they just do it. everyone in my church votes republican, for one reason and one reason only. they dont care about anything except for their money and they want to pay less taxes.

[DreamDudeDave]

Short answer: Nature created God. The Source birthed Nature birthed Divinity. The Source of the Source is Nothing. Look at Nothing as a Thing. The Ancients has 5 elements: Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, Ether. Ether Birthed the Source Birthed Nature birthed Divinity birthed Humanity.

[27]

ur church that u created? nice ive got a church now to. its called the church of minding ur p's and q's. the central mystery of my church is where that expression came from oh shit i forgot i know where it came from there goes my church. but anyway my church teaches that u go through life doing whatever the fuck u want not bothering anybody but not being bothered either. we just dont care. if a gay person is in my church they dont have an opinion on gay marriage. they dont debate it. if they want to get gay married (butt-buddies) they just do it, they dont care what anybody else says. if someone wants to get an abortion they dont be like its my right they just do it. everyone in my church votes republican, for one reason and one reason only. they dont care about anything except for their money and they want to pay less taxes. [/b] No, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I fail to grasp the point of your post. What does it have to do with the creation of God? Are you mad at me for expressing my opinion?

[mountain]

No, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I fail to grasp the point of your post. What does it have to do with the creation of God? Are you mad at me for expressing my opinion? [/b] i cannot be angered but yur a mormon thats sweet. u should see that mormon episode of south park its the cats ass.

[DreamDudeDave]

i cannot be angered but yur a mormon thats sweet. u should see that mormon episode of south park its the cats ass. [/b] MORMONISM TEACHES THAT HUMANITY CAN BECOME GOD/DESSES????!!! WHERE?! It kind of does not surprise me because Mormonism is rooted and a branch of (or brother branch with) Freemasonry. Where though does it say in the Book of Mormon about this?

[Tsen]

Blah, blah, blah. Not going to bother commenting on most of the thread, sorry--there was a similar thread a while back and I'd just be repeating myself. Turtles all the way down and whatnot. But what I DO have to say is that yes, Mormon doctrine DOES teach that humans can become Gods/Goddesses. I think it's in the Pearl of Great Price at the back of most Book of Mormons, but I don't remember for sure. I've been out of the church for a while and don't really bother remembering specifics anymore. Either way, it's also taught in LDS sunday school.

[27]

MORMONISM TEACHES THAT HUMANITY CAN BECOME GOD/DESSES????!!! WHERE?! It kind of does not surprise me because Mormonism is rooted and a branch of (or brother branch with) Freemasonry. Where though does it say in the Book of Mormon about this? [/b] Mormonism is not a brach of the Freemasons. I once heard that Joseph Smith was, at one time, Freemason. But that is where the connection ends. There are many verses of scripture relating to man's potential to become like God: Gen. 1: 26 (Moses 2: 26) let them have dominion. Gen. 3: 22 (Moses 4: 28) man is become as one of us. Lev. 19: 2 (1 Pet. 1: 16) be holy: for I . . . am holy. Ps. 8: 5 thou hast made him a little lower than the angels. Ps. 8: 6 madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands. Ps. 82: 6 ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High. Matt. 5: 48 (3 Ne. 12: 48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father. Luke 24: 39 spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. John 10: 34 (Ps. 82: 1-8; D&C 76: 58) Is it not written in your law . . . Ye are gods. Acts 17: 29 we are the offspring of God. Rom. 8: 17 heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. 2 Cor. 3: 18 changed into the same image from glory to glory. Gal. 4: 7 if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Eph. 4: 13 Till we all come . . . unto a perfect man. Heb. 12: 9 be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. 1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him. Rev. 3: 21 him that overcometh will . . . sit with me in my throne. 2 Ne. 2: 25 men are, that they might have joy. 3 Ne. 9: 17 to them have I given to become the sons of God. 3 Ne. 27: 27 what manner of men ought ye to be . . . even as I am. 3 Ne. 28: 10 your joy shall be full . . . shall be even as I am. D&C 14: 7 you shall have eternal life. D&C 88: 29 Ye who are quickened by . . . celestial glory. D&C 88: 107 saints shall . . . be made equal with him. D&C 93: 20 you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified. D&C 93: 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. D&C 121: 32 every man shall enter into his eternal presence. D&C 129: 3 spirits of just men made perfect. D&C 130: 1 he is a man like ourselves. D&C 130: 22 Father has a body of flesh and bones. D&C 131: 2 (D&C 131: 1-4) in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order. D&C 132: 20 (D&C 132: 1-24) shall they be gods, because they have all power. D&C 133: 57 that men might be made partakers of the glories. Moses 1: 39 to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. JS-H 1: 17 I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy.

[NeAvO]

I think the bible says that as we humans, we are not capable of understanding this sort of stuff. Not sure though.

[mountain]

I think the bible says that as we humans, we are not capable of understanding this sort of stuff. Not sure though. [/b] the finite mind cannot grasp the infinite[/b] i agree. but mormons hahaha i love the story of how mormonism was started it was practically the funniest thing i ever heard i was like "people actually believe this crap?" classic. the south park episode just put it into liquid hilarity for me, if ur mormon u have to see it!!!!

[27]

i agree. but mormons hahaha i love the story of how mormonism was started it was practically the funniest thing i ever heard i was like "people actually believe this crap?" classic. the south park episode just put it into liquid hilarity for me, if ur mormon u have to see it!!!![/b] You acually believe the crap South Park makes up?

[mountain]

You acually believe the crap South Park makes up? [/b] you actually believe the crap joseph smith makes up? dont even bother to respond. u walked right into that, and i dont feel sorry for you at all.

[spoon]

You acually believe the crap South Park makes up? [/b] Trey Parker was a mormon as a kid and, despite it being portrayed very harshly, there was little deviation from what actually happened when Joseph Smith discovered (or invented, your pick) the book of mormon. I didn't just read that from some anti-mormon site on the internets, I have it from all of my mormon friends too.

[Tsen]

And, being an ex-mo myself, I can vouch for it too.

[Theotherguy]

who created god? Mankind. With our lack of understanding of the world, we created a god-of-the-gaps which gave our pitiful ignorance of the world and rediculous cultural practices meaning. Man created god in his own image.

[Tsen]

I've always loved that quote--and its entirely true. Gods have risen and fallen, new ones who conveniently coincide with leader's ideals replacing those that don't. Largely, that's what led to the rise of Christianity--the Romans changed their positions from harrassing Christians to using Christianity to strengthen nationalism and grant further control of the citizens. It's also quite apparent when one looks elsewhere--religions that preach similar values to those already held by society grow rapidly and quickly take over. But if its the "truth", it oughtn't matter at all whether the values fit a current society or not--it's the truth, people ought adjust themselves to fit it, not the other way around. But that's what's happening, people play around, changing the "truth" to fit their existing desires.

[27]

I saw the episode. Joseph Smith did not transate the plates out of a hat. There were more than 4 plates. He did not dig around all day looking for them. He found the plates when he was 14. He did not tell everyone he had found them. Others did see the plates. Anyone who has opened up a copy of the Book of Mormon would know that. Martin Harris's wife did not hide the lost 118 pages. People did not easy accept Josephs testimony, if fact he was hated and pursecuted for it. And none of this has anything to do with this thread so please leave me alone.

[dreamdatum]

I saw the episode. Joseph Smith did not transate the plates out of a hat. There were more than 4 plates. He did not dig around all day looking for them. He found the plates when he was 14. He did not tell everyone he had found them. Others did see the plates. Anyone who has opened up a copy of the Book of Mormon would know that. Martin Harris's wife did not hide the lost 118 pages. People did not easy accept Josephs testimony, if fact he was hated and pursecuted for it. And none of this has anything to do with this thread so please leave me alone. [/b] if God can be created... then who or what created this Being call God. Have a think and you will know that GOD is no-thing and everything

[Tsen]

If anything, the fact that Joseph didn't let anybody see the plates is a strike against the LDS religion. Yes, there are the witnesses. But a few people swearing that they saw the plates is very different from accepted proof of the plate's existence. Not to mention that the Book of Mormon has its own flaws, and quite a few of them--which kind of goes against the Jo Smith and Urim and Thummim creating a perfect translation. All together, its just like any other religion, founded on myth.

[27]

I don't need proof, I have faith. I don't need anyone to aprove of my religion. All I wanted to do was state my opinion on the creation of God, not start an argument on Joseph Smith and the acuracy of South Park. I'm sorry I mentioned it.