Christianity And Homosexuality

[becomingagodo]

http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/arguments.shtml http://www.straight-talk.net/gay/gay.shtml Homosexual Facts The power of the homosexual movement is built upon two key lies-or Urban Legends-to gain and keep its political and cultural victories. The first lie is that homosexuals are "born gay" and cannot change. The second is that "10% of the population" is homosexual and that we must encourage and protect this 10% from "discrimination."33 [T]he claim that 10% of the total population is engaged in the homosexual lifestyle is false. The most accurate recent studies show the actual figure to be 1.5 - 2%&#33;10 The gay gene - the idea that gays are born that way is being blown apart. The Boston Globe, one of the most liberal papers in all America, ran an article recently saying that lots of doubt has been cast on the gay gene. There just isn&#39;t scientific evidence for it.31 The truth is no one is born "gay" - no one. In most all cases one&#39;s homosexuality has everything to do with childhood.3 "...The consistency of the median age of death for homosexuals indexed by the obituaries of 18 independent homosexual journals over an eleven year period, suggests an average life span located in the mid 40s if AIDS fails to intervene, late 30s-to-early-40s if it does. The more limited evidence regarding lesbian deaths suggests an average life-span of under 50 years."15 Scientific research has uncovered the following statistics about the gay lifestyle and heath risks22 Practices or Heath Issues Gay Community General Community Having used IV drugs and less than 25 years of age 16% 1.5% Engaged in prostitution 24% 0.66% Having a lifetime STDs prevalence 70% 4% Percentage of Alcholholism 27% 11% Median number of partners 38 per year Having a brief or no knowledge of partners 90% Involved in whipping, sadism or masochism 21% Of those with HIV, having anogenital warts 92% Of those not having HIV and having anogenital warts 76% Acquired multiple wart virus subtypes, within 17 months 75% Involved in &#39;rimming&#39; (mouth to anus contact) 61% Having anal pre-cancer 18% 0.03% Having HIV ( < 25 years 10%, > 25 years 24% ) 21.8% Average age of death from AIDS 35.7 years Expected average life span 45 years 70 years The average homosexual relationship can be characterized as highly unstable and promiscuous. Homosexuals represent hedonism in its most extreme form, with one-night stands and brief flings offering constant excitement and variety. An exhaustive 1978 Kinsey Institute study of homosexuality showed that 28 percent of homosexual males had sexual encounters with 1,000 or more males. And 79 percent said more than half of their sex partners were strangers. Almost half of the white homosexual males said that they had at least 500 different sexual partners during the course of their homosexual careers.&#39;&#39; A 1982 study of AIDS victims by the US Centers for Disease Control found that 1,100 sexual partners was about average, with some reporting as many as 20,000 partners.22 Homosexuals have high death rates not only from AIDS but also from violence, substance abuse, accidents, cancer, suicide, and murder15 Does it help if homosexuals stay together over time? "No evidence that having a homosexual longtime sexual partner (LTSP) might be protective of the participants&#39; health surfaced. These data lend no support to the notion of public health benefits from homosexual marriage."15 Troy Perry, of the Metropolitan Community Church, a largely homosexual denomination, told The Dallas Morning News, "Monogamy is not a word the gay community uses."8 A recent study from the Netherlands, where gay marriage is legal, suggests that he is correct. Researchers found that even among stable homosexual partnerships, men have an average of eight partners per year outside their "monogamous" relationship.8 The journal AIDS reported that in the Netherlands, where "gay marriage" has been legal since 2001, HIV and other diseases are soaring among homosexual men. The study notes that "partnered" homosexuals have "outside" lovers, and are contracting the AIDS virus at alarming rates. This puts more young people at risk for HIV, hepatitis A, B and C, "gay bowel syndrome," human papillomavirus (HPV), syphilis, gonorrhea and other sexually transmitted diseases.19 "The incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population," according to D. Island and P. Letellier in Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them (New York: Haworth Press, 1991). A study in the Journal of Social Service Research reported that "slightly more than half of the [lesbians surveyed] reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner." (G. Lie and S. Gentlewarrior, "Intimate Violence in Lesbian Relationships: Discussion of Survey Findings and Practice Implications," No. 15, 1991.)19 There is nothing "gay" about being "gay." Many homosexual men and women, when brutally honest, would also agree.3 [/b] Well i checked one of keepers links and a idiot who doesnt understand evoultion was trying to prove it wrong. Now this is fine if keeper or most chrisitan believe this but then i click on homosexual agenda. Now does his view reflect most of chiritianity or is he just a religous fanatic. I in two minds one is that they dont and other is that they do because of stuff like gay marriages which seem to me is not getting passed because of chiristianity. P.S. Keeper if i was you i would remove the link to the webpage because he cleary is homophobic plus it makes you look like a bigot.

[Keeper]

I dont see how it is homophobic. Maby you could explain how it is to me. also, my link is not to that, but to another part of the web page. I dont think it makes me look bigoted, as I am sure most people will see. Judge me in your mind by the way I talk and act, not by following additional links in the links I provide.

[becomingagodo]

I dont see how it is homophobic. Maby you could explain how it is to me.[/b] "The real agenda of the homosexual movement is what I call pan-sexual liberation, because homosexuality is not just about same-sex acts. It's about creating a climate in which that is permissible and even celebrated. That's why I call it the iron triangle of abortion, pornography, and homosexuality that has been thrust upon this country." - Robert Knight, "Homosexuality in an Age of Consent"31 [/b] That homosexual is a problem like pornography and is damaged to the country Repeal all sodomy laws and legalize all forms of sexual expression. (Including pedophilia, changing age of consent laws to allow sex with youth[/b] Now he saying their trying to get pedophilia legal. The homosexual movement does not seek mere toleration, instead its goal is to compel society's acceptance of their sexual choices and their lifestyle - even at the expense of religious liberty and conscience.27[/b] Now he saying their trying to destroy religion. Homosexual activists say they worked for years to get to the Supreme Court so they don't have to worry about Big Brother invading their homes at night. Today, the radical gay movement is working in overdrive to become Big Brother so that it can invade not only the family home, but our Boy Scout troops, our schools, our churches, our businesses, our hearts and our minds.32[/b] Common this is cleary homophobic our you blind. Christians who doubt that the homosexual agenda is a genuine threat to religious liberty need only consider employees in major corporations who are judged to be uncooperative and thus terminated or turned down for promotion, because they will not serve on a committee planning a gay awareness day or post a rainbow flag on their cubicle. Just ask parents ready to take foster children into their homes in California, who are denied the opportunity to care for children in need because they will not bend the knee to the homosexual activists. Or, consider those in other nations already facing criminal sanctions and heavy fines simply for preaching or teaching that homosexuality is sinful.30[/b] Now it saying homosexuality is sinful. Many homosexuals have left their destructive lifestyle by turning their lives over to Jesus Christ. [/b] "I think those who struggle with homosexuality really have to hang on with every thread in their being if they're going to make it, because society at large basically says that "if anybody says you can change, you are homophobic and hateful." . . . yet there is a goal and it's good . . . There are [thousands of] people who successfully made it out of homosexuality. It is possible. It's not only possible, but there is great joy on the other side of the years of struggling with the past." - Anne Paulk36[/b] Homosexual marriage will always be an abomination to God.[/b] Homosexual marriage will harm children by denying them the love and nurture of a mom and dad. The only "procreation" homosexuals can engage in requires that a third party must be brought into the relationship.16 [/b] Common this is cleary homophobic you must be blind not to see that. I would get more but it making me to angry. also, my link is not to that, but to another part of the web page. I dont think it makes me look bigoted, as I am sure most people will see. Judge me in your mind by the way I talk and act, not by following additional links in the links I provide.[/b] You put the link their because you agree with his views about chrisitanity like intelligent design however if you look on to his other page your see what a sick twisted homophobic bigot he is and if i was you i would want nothing to do with him.

[deathly_hallow]

This is all wrong. The Bible is translated wrongly when it comes to homosexuality. They are really saying that anal sex is prohibited, and they suppose that since that is how gay people have sex, that it talks about homosexuality being a sin. You should read the articles and essay in www.g0ys.org

[becomingagodo]

This is all wrong. The Bible is translated wrongly when it comes to homosexuality. They are really saying that anal sex is prohibited, and they suppose that since that is how gay people have sex, that it talks about homosexuality being a sin. You should read the articles and essay in www.g0ys.org[/b] Well according to the homophobe your wrong. The Gay Spin on the Bible The 77,000-member Metropolitan Community Church, founded by openly homosexual Baptist minister Troy Perry preaches that the Bible is full of errors that have resulted from being copied, recopied, and translated over and over again. Homosexual behavior is not a sin in God's eyes. Instead, the teaching that homosexual behavior is sinful is the result of twisted teaching of "homophobic" men. The references to homosexual behavior in the Bible really don't mean what they say.38 However as more modern translations are made the more through they are in research to oldest and reliable Old and New Testament writings. Quotations on this page are from the New International Version (NIV) and the Amplified Bible (AMP). Claim: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed not because of homosexual behavior but because the people there ignored the poor and needy.38 (A program on the Discovery Channel said it was because the residents of the towns were inhospitable to strangers.) Facts: (Sodom and Gormorrah and homosexuality in general) "The Cities of the Plain" were not exclusively populated by homosexuals or they would have soon disappeared from history. The various Canaanite tribes all had abandoned the God of their forefathers not long after the Flood of Noah. The people had gone after the worship of pagan gods, and they were highly sexually promiscuous.39 Sodom is a city which illustrates what Paul describes in Romans Chapter One: a culture with blatant sexual immorality, promiscuity, violence and open debauchery. One has only to read a bit further in Romans to discover that Sodom's sin is but one class of evil which God condemns and opposes.39 "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom - both young and old - surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." (Genesis 1:4-8 NIV) "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (Romans 1:26-27 NIV) "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7 NIV) The behavior judged was "ungodliness" -- a violation of the order of creation: sexual relationships only between man and wife in marriage meet with God's approval.39 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV) Neglecting the poor or being inhospitable is shameful, but to say that God destroyed Sodom because of either of these two behaviors cheapens God. Claim: [The] Levitical condemnation of homosexuality was only meant to keep Israel separate from the surrounding nations -- and thus did not reflect God's universal disapproval of such activity.6 Facts: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Leviticus 20:13 NIV) In their book, The Same Sex Controversy, James R. White and Jeffrey D. Niell disagree with this claim, insisting that Leviticus codifies for Israel how God felt about homosexuality in a universal sense. The proof? The Lord had pronounced judgment upon the non-Jewish inhabitants of the Promised Land for committing these very same sins. Because the Canaanite nations had "done all these abominations," the inhabitants had defiled the land (Leviticus 18:25, 27 NIV), and were to be expelled.6 "[T]hese were nations that did not have the Law of God given to them on tablets of stone, yet God still held them responsible for their immoral behavior," White and Niell argue. "Unquestionably, God's prohibition of homosexuality wasn't only a Jewish matter -- it was something that transcended ethnic boundaries."6 If the Levitical condemnation of homosexuality does not apply to all men everywhere, what about the other sins in Leviticus -- such as adultery, bestiality, incest, and prostitution?6 Clearly, White and Niell suggest, "such practices are immoral and reprehensible wherever they may occur, whatever the address or the locale."6 The [Mosaic] Law reveals the kind of Person God is -- His holiness and moral perfection. The Law is diagnostic as far as mankind is concerned: the Law shows us our deep need for God's grace. The Law was designed to bring us to God for mercy and help to overcome the morally bankrupt state of affairs we were all born with. Behind the Law is a loving Creator and Redeemer who desires to heal and to restore any one of us who will but call out to Him for help. Jesus fulfills the demands of the Law in us and for us when we grant Him the freedom to rule our hearts and lives39. Claim: Jonathan and David were homosexual lovers.38 Facts: "We note the covenant friendship between David and Jonathan. This was a form of relationship made in the presence of the Lord, in which each party accepted obligations toward the other; it was regarded as being of the same order as blood relationship. It was such that it could be described as the knitting together of the souls of the two men (1 Samuel 18:1), by which was meant that the very being of the one was extended into and embraced the personality of the other; each became the other's alter ego."41 After he left Hebron, David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem, and more sons and daughters were born to him." (2 Samuel 5:13 NIV) David also had an affair with Bathsheeba and and fathered a child by her. (2 Samuel 11:1-28 NIV) Hardly the actions of a gay man. Claim: Ruth and Naomi were lesbian lovers.38 Facts: Naomi was a Moabite who married a man named Elimelech. She had two sons. Both of the sons married Moabite women, Orpah and Ruth. Naomi's sons died after two years, leaving Orpah and Ruth widowed. In time, Naomi decided to return to Judah. (Ruth 1:3-5 NIV) Then Naomi said to her two daughters-in law (emphasis added), "go back, each of you to your mother's home . . . May the Lord grant that each of you will find rest in the home of another husband." (Ruth 1:8 NIV) Ruth begged Naomi to accompany her back to Judah. (Ruth 1:10 NIV). After returning to Judah with Ruth, Naomi did her best to "fix her up" with Boaz, a relative on her husband's side. Ruth (2:1 - 3:18 NIV) "So Boaz took Ruth and she became his wife. Then he went in to her and the Lord enabled her to conceive and she gave birth to a son. The women said to Naomi: "Praise be to the Lord who this day has not left you without a kinsman-redeemer . . . For your daughter-in-law, who loves you and is better than seven sons, has given him birth. . . . And they named him Obed. He was the father of Jessie, the father of David." (Ruth 4:13-17 NIV) Nowhere does the Bible even suggest that Ruth and Naomi had a lesbian relationship. Claim: Christ lived an alternative lifestyle and he loved other men besides John.38 Facts: In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. He was present originally with God. All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. [T]he Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth. (John 1:1,14 AMP) Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30 NIV) Jesus was God incarnate. There are many meanings to the word Love and many different ways for love to be expressed; the love of, or for, a child, the love shared between life partners, the love of food, of learning or of new experiences. There is above all else, the love of God and His love for us, his children. There is no love as fulfilling as God's love. His love is complete, never ending and unconditional.49 The beloved disciple may not have even been John; there are some hints that he may have been Lazarus instead.50 The Amplified Bible describes the type of love that Jesus had for him. At the last supper: One of His disciples, whom Jesus loved [whom He esteemed and delighted in], was reclining [next to Him] on Jesus' bosom. (John 13:23 AMP) Jesus did live an alternative lifestyle: He was God incarnate and the only man who ever lived who did not sin. God, himself, condemned homosexuality as a sin. So it is illogical that Jesus was homosexual. Jesus never "tolerated" or "accepted" sin. While His response to sin was swift and sometimes harsh, His motive was always one of unconditional love. Jesus didn't "pussy foot" around, fearful He may "offend" someone or worried He may appear "hate-filled," "intolerant" or "bigoted." No, Jesus called it like it was: sin is sin is sin. Many times He openly exhibited a holy, righteous anger and zeal for "His Father's business."3 Claim: Christ wore a purple robe to the cross as a connotation of his homosexuality.38 Facts: "The solders led Jesus away from the palace . . . and called together the whole company of solders. They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. . . . And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe (emphasis added) and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him." (Mark 15:18-20) (Matthew 27:28 says the color of the robe was "scarlet.") Rome, Egypt, and Persia all used purple as the imperial standard. Purple dyes were rare and expensive; only the rich had access to them. The purple colorants used came from different sources, most from the dye extraction from fish or insects. -- Dr. Richard M. Podhajny, Ph.D., History, Shellfish, Royalty, and the Color Purple25 Had Jesus actually worn a purple robe to the cross it would have been a witness of his Kingship, not his sexual orientation.[/b] Well this does make the bible seem pretty anti gay.

[deathly_hallow]

Can you imagine if Jesus were gay. That would shatter the church, wouldn't it?

[Indecent Exposure]

and that could be on of the secrets they have locked away in the archives of the vatican or the fact that he ahd a wife and child? or the fact that there are numerous gospels that show that he never rose from the dead? we dont know what they are hiding but we know 100% that certain items were found that could ahve been very damging to the church, to remove this problem the templars were destroyed and the scrols were hidden but who knows what the secret really is certainly not me but the amount of time he chose to spend with his disciples, and the fact that john was called "the beolved" leads to a possiblity that he was gay. Imran

[The Blue Meanie]

to remove this problem the templars were destroyed and the scrols were hidden[/b] Ummm, sorry, I got to disagree with that statement about the templars. The Templar Order was dismantled because their violent rabidity was causing too many political problems between the Christian pseudo-kingdoms in the Holy Land, and the large, weatlhy muslim empires in the east and north africa - they were dismantled for political reasons. Not theological.

[Indecent Exposure]

My friend that is the coverup I used to gullable and believe everything I was told then I went the other way and was still gullable, as I believed every conspiracy theory now I make my own mind up and after extensive research I find it quite obvious that the templars were dismantled due to the extreme threat they posed to the stabilitty of the Church Imran

[Universal Mind]

I am so baffled by the claim that homosexuality is a choice. Engaging in homosexual acts is a choice, but preferring homosexual acts is not a choice. It's very simple. If your favorite food is pizza and your least favorite food (disgusting to you) is turnip greens, you cannot CHOOSE to like turnip greens more than pizza. It is impossible. You can choose which one you eat, but not which one you prefer. If your favorite band is The Beatles and you are absolutely disgusted by The Backstreet Boys, you cannot choose to like The Backstreet Boys more than The Beatles. Does anybody argue that it is actually possible? Homosexuals have no interest in the opposite sex. Is there supposed to be some kind of way they can develop an interest? Have you ever successfully forced yourself to be attracted to somebody who grossed you out? It's an absurd concept. Could Richard Simmons start acting manly without faking it? Don't his mannerisms suggest that he is physically structured to be the way he is? Could he decide to not be turned on by men and to instead be turned on by women? Can you picture Richard Simmons making a decision to be attracted to Cameron Diaz and actually pulling it off? The statistics quoted in the initial post were just retarded. Where do people come up with this stuff?

[Neruo]

The person that wrote that article is a retard. I mean, besides the crazy point of view, it is just technically incorrect. Calling people lairs without actual proof that is better then the proof of the other side, that is just 2+2=5. AKA, bullshit. I hope not all Christians are so hatefully. Also, what kind of bullshit is it that 'gay people aren't born gay' if there are a lot of studies about how gay people have a different brain-lobe (that has to do with sex) then heterosexual people. The only 'cure' for gayness is lobotomy or brainwashing and emotion abuse leading to celibacy.

[weaselstein]

Homophobic people are close minded idiots. Bieng gay is not wrong or 'sinful' in anyway way whatsoever, its just different. Christians say it goes against god but I'm sorry, but if it was- then why doesn't the almighty do something about it himself? Ugh I cannot stand homophobic people they reasoning is weak and pathetic

[gonnabeathinker]

Well god gave us free will okie, so tecknically any sin we make isnt really a sin. I once knew a religios freek who thought that all gay people were evil creatures from hell, come to turn everyone gay.(seriously)

[♥Mark]

I was reading the KKK's website the other day and it was pretty much exactly the same thing regarding this issue. The problem with using the Bible to support your ideas is that absolutely everyone is doing it, despite the wild range of different ideas that they claim it supports.

[legbuh]

"Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom - both young and old - surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." (Genesis 1:4-8 NIV) [/b] I only got ot his and realized it's not only marked wrong, it's out of context. The "men" they were referring to (and wanted to have sex with) were angels. Read from v1 (it's Gen chapter 19 by the way). Some have theorized that angles and humans did have sex at time and that is what created the "giants" (like in David and Goliath). Along with this these "cross breeds" were also part of the reason for the flood. Also, when Jesus decends to "hell" (or hades) after his crucifixion, the souls he meets with are the angels that fell out of grace by commiting such acts. These are just things I've heard certain pasters, etc. talk about. Even if it's not true, it is quite interesting.

[Rav1]

That is all a pure discrimination. It has nothing to do with any believes or religions. People got used to perceiving the world in terms of "If hetero have advantage in numbers over homo, that means hetero are correct and normal ". What a fucked-up approach! The same way one could claim that idiots are "correct and normal" as they have superiority in numbers. Oh yes, I have no doubts that there are more stupid people than the wise ones. So should the wise people be cured from their wisdom to level the common stupidity of the world?

[legbuh]

That is all a pure discrimination. It has nothing to do with any believes or religions. People got used to perceiving the world in terms of "If hetero have advantage in numbers over homo, that means hetero are correct and normal ". What a fucked-up approach! The same way one could claim that idiots are "correct and normal" as they have superiority in numbers. Oh yes, I have no doubts that there are more stupid people than the wise ones. So should the wise people be cured from their wisdom to level the common stupidity of the world? [/b] So, does that mean that if more people believe in evolution than creation, then creationists are right? (forget intelligent design, thats PC for creationism but for people that don't have the canhunes to say "creationism" and leave God out of it, or just leave God as a "possiblilty". As pagan as you can get). God loves all. No matter race, religion, sexual orientation. He loves ALL. He made ALL. He gave us free will. that proves how much he loved us.

[Rav1]

So, does that mean that if more people believe in evolution than creation, then creationists are right? [/b] Of course, not. It'd be a discrimination, as I wrote before. We're all supposed to be equal. I only put an example of how shallow and narrow-minded is the approach of the majority of human being. It is not my way of perceiving the world anyway. I go my own path, learning through experience, and I never follow the herd.

[sloth]

Is homosexuality a choice? When I look at a woman, something instantly goes through me. I love everything about women. Every detail touches a deep instinct inside of me and brings out the wolf. I have a savage love and fascination with everything that is female. When I look at a man, I see a fellow being. Another soul, striving to make his place on this earth. I could develop a love for him, if he was a very close friend, or a relative, but it is not the same at all, and it could never be. I could never be gay. I can not FATHOM looking at another man and feeling sexual interest, or looking at a pretty lady and not feeling anything. This is WHY I believe that it is not a choice. Furthermore, I cannot respect a God that can hate. Is this REALLY the God that the Christians are worshiping? Some spooky judgemental asshole? And to such a deity, I challenge you. Stand down from your throne of hatred, SINNER! -disgusted sloth

[Universal Mind]

Furthermore, I cannot respect a God that can hate. Is this REALLY the God that the Christians are worshiping? Some spooky judgemental asshole? And to such a deity, I challenge you. Stand down from your throne of hatred, SINNER! [/b] That is so called for, but I think it is the first time I have ever actually watched somebody say it. The way that people see the horrible stuff about what God supposedly did according to the Bible and still WORSHIP him says a lot about why dictators are able to get so powerful. What an interesting aspect of human nature. I am an atheist, but the part of me that was brainwashed into being a Christian long ago and is still there on some emotional level is still afraid of God and reserves a certain degree of respect for him in a really strange way. The part of my brain that holds on to God in a purely emotional way seems to have this idea that he is has some special right to commit genocide on the human race with a flood, to punish me for not worshipping him often enough, and to allow the existence of a place where people are tortured forever for things that are not even illegal in any civilized country. But you are so right. Who would such a thing think he is, being so judgemental and causing so much horror when he is infinitely powerful and doesn't have to? I can actually see where I might get the idea that a dictator has every right to be as much of a jackass as he pleases. That sucks, but it's absolutely fascinating. Man, that post just gave me a whole new area of stuff to think about. You raised another good point... A question for everybody who says that homosexuality is a choice: Could you DECIDE to be heavily turned on sexually by people of your gender? Does such an on/off switch exist? Then look at a magazine and get turned on by people of your sex for five minutes and tell us what it was like. You don't have to imagine actual sex acts. Just look at pictures and feel the strong temptation to have impure thoughts. I challenge you. At least tell me if you think you would be able to do it if you tried. Would you? Please don't ignore that question. Your answer will speak volumes.

[Rav1]

Could you DECIDE to be heavily turned on sexually by people of your gender? Does such an on/off switch exist? Then look at a magazine and get turned on by people of your sex for five minutes and tell us what it was like. You don't have to imagine actual sex acts. Just look at pictures and feel the strong temptation to have impure thoughts. I challenge you. At least tell me if you think you would be able to do it if you tried. Would you? [/b] Well, it depends on many things like the age of the "supposed" partner, the surroundings, my the frame of mind, general appearance... And sex can be understood very differentlly as well. The same way I could ask a male who is a sworn hetero "Would you do it with EVERY woman?"....

[Universal Mind]

Well, it depends on many things like the age of the "supposed" partner, the surroundings, my the frame of mind, general appearance... And sex can be understood very differentlly as well. The same way I could ask a male who is a sworn hetero "Would you do it with EVERY woman?".... [/b] Time and desired partner shouldn't matter, according to their philosophy. They say that sexual attraction is a choice. If being attracted to somebody of the same sex is 100% choice, then they could choose to be attracted to anybody at any time. If not, then there are factors beyond choice. Now that I think about it, I might get some responses about how they don't want to subject themselves to homosexual thoughts and temptations, so for those that back down to that challenge, I have another one. Choose to be highly turned on sexually by a tree. Tell us what it was like.

[sloth]

ROFL! I made love to a tree once. It was painful. For real though.. I am a very strong believer in god. I just do not believe in the god that most Christians believe in. He's a prick. I do not believe that god would be that way, and that is why I am able to say these things. I am so sure that the enlightened one does not hate people that he has created himself, that I am willing to challenge the idea of, and yes, even any deity who does. I love your idea of telling a Christian to go hump a tree. lol The problem, however, in having ANY discussion with a Christian is that 1. They will never back down, even when they are clearly wrong. 2. They are backed by the bible and other biblical-like phrases that are like catch-alls. Certain phrases and concepts that either don't mean anything, or don't make any sence by themselves, but they work perfectly to prove you wrong. lol But since they are actually nonsensical terms, you can never prove them wrong. If you don't believe me, ask a Christian how it is that God 'gave his only son', but since Jesus was going to heaven, he really wasn't giving anything, really. Plus, he went back on his word. He was the only man that ever lived who was so unhappy with being dead that he actually came back to life! Tell a Christian to explain this one to you, and a big heaping pile of shit shall spew forth from his mouth, and even god will say, 'What the fuck did he just say?' Consider this: Christianity is the world's LEADING religion, covering 33% of the worlds population. That's pretty impressive. However, they throw in this clause that if you are not Christian you are going to hell. That means that AT BEST 67% of the world's entire population is GOING TO HELL! That's right, even if you are one of the few chosen ones, MOST of the people you love are going to a fiery place, and they will burn forever and ever in agony and pain. ...but he loves us. He loves us, and he needs money. And I ask, if all of my loved ones are in hell, and I am in heaven, where does the paradise part come in? I asked a Christian this one time, and he said, 'Well, you won't remember them, because it would be painful.' I won't remember them!? That's not heaven. He was thinking of heroin. Or meth, I think. That'll make you forget everyone you know. If heaven is like meth, count me out. I've already been down that road and come back. Finally, why is it evil to not believe in a Christ? I don't mean why is the possiblility of a Christ likely, or why should I believe in him. I'm asking why it is WRONG to not be so sure.. to wonder. What an evil God to make us play the guessing game. Which religion is it, folks. Which one will save your eternal soul? Is it: Door number 1, Door number 2, or Door number 3!? Pick wisely, for this is your soul we're talking about. I'd almost love to see a Christian get up to the pearly gates and for the watchman to say, 'No. That is incorrect. The correct answer was those hail-bop commet people. They are the ones going to heaven. Didn't you see the signs?' God pointed you in the right way, you just didn't listen. The signs were everywhere. Salvation is found in Christ, and not in acts, according to Christianity. This means that when I get old, I can go on a killing spree, rape children, burn down churches, kill the pope, and worship the famous art piece 'Piss Christ' and as long as I 'accept Jesus into my heart' before I die, I will be okay. At the same time, the good man, who works his entire lifetime to make god happy, who prays every night, and LOVES god and doesn't even concern himself with what god looks like, or what god's name is, or what god did on the sixth day, but just loves god for whatever he is, he will go to hell? Every night I pray. I pray, 'If there is any one particular religion you would like me to follow, please give me a sign that I will notice.' Every time I've ever asked for guidance, he's given me a sign. Every other time I've asked for an answer he has shown it to me. Not that question though. Perhaps, just maybe god is NOT stupid, and sees all religion for what it is; an attempt to be closer to him; and accepts it all as such.

[Neruo]

Very interesting questions Sloth, but not like it will get the topic further, because at best you get some Christians that contradict themselves when listing their bible-quotes that they interpret, and thus are truth to them, to reflect your agruments. I did always find the argument of "at least 67%, or at least A LOT of people, are going to hell" a good argument. Especially if you take in account the people that Really, literally, Never heard of the Christian god and jesus, like tribes that live deep in the jungle. Anyhow. What was this topic about? Religion and Homosexuality? Man. Imagen one of the people that wrote the gospels was gay (who knows they might have been). Or lets say at least that the people that wrote (and edited) the bible weren't so anti-gay that they wanted to kill them. It would end a lot of grieve over something that heterosexuals just find dirty by nature. We don't have to find it bad. But wait, of course god did used to directly contact people in the old days, so the bible is 100% true. Strange how it has been edited 2 times in the past, that too still divinely true, according to doctrine. But now, when Christianity needs it most, god doesn't gets his bible edited.

[Indecent Exposure]

Im going to ahve to disagree with you the largest demonation of christianity is catholicism catholic doctrine teaches that others will be accepted into heaven it says so in the cathecisms especially Muslims, since they beleive in Jesus miraculous birth and His role as the Messiah Imran