Originally Posted by
Riot Maker
First of all i think you guys are missing the point of the thread. If i read sandforms post correctly he is looking for what created the creator, not if the universe needs a creator or not.
With that in mind take a gander at what i wrote in another thread:
-No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
-This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
-The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
-To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
There are 2 general takes on these verses.
1. Ok so God existed before time but that still doesn't prove he created anything.
Let's say God does exist outside of time.
Like UM said we live in a world of cause and effect and it is the only way existence can function. But think about it, if there was no time there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist would have no need for a cause and were always there.
Therefore if God is outside of time he had no need for being created.
2. Dimensional
Things that exist in 1 dimension of time are restricted to time and cause and affect. Add a second dimension of time and we got a plane of time which has no begging and no and are not restricted to single direction. things that exist in 2 or more dimensions of time can anywhere and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has know start.
Both interpretations leads to the conclusion that God did not need to be created.