For Christians- Was Jesus Really Crucified? and The Ultimate Dialogue

[Rock]

Hello, im new to the forums here. Well, not exactly- ive been reading a lot about lucid dreaming and all, just didnt register for the forums till soon. However, I am not new to religious forums and i must say, the fact that this section allows and tolerates bashing, disrespect, insults, etc... makes me very wary and i hope that the participators refrain as much as possible from that sort of behaviour and stick to facts. Anyway, I just want to say in the beginning that this topic is for Muslims and Christians only- but mainly Christians. If you are neither then you will probably not be interested in this topic, and if you are- you are welcome to participate but only with contribution and not bashing (because, you know- since atheists dont believe in God they will probably come here and curse both religions, and i sincerely dont want that. if you dont have anything to say, dont say it) This topic surrounds 2 massive debates. You can choose to comment on either one of them or both, its completely up to you. The first is solely biblical and concerns the topic 'Was Jesus Really Crucified?'. It involves a debate between representors of each of the 2 religions, Dr. Zakir Naik and Pastor Rukniddin Henry Pio. Here is the link for it: http://webcast.challengeyoursoul.com...&categoryId=19 and http://webcast.challengeyoursoul.com...&categoryId=19 The second is a much wider debate and was procclaimed The Ultimate Dialogue revolving around 'The Q'uran and The Bible in Modern Science'. It includes a debate between (again) Dr. Zakir Naik and Dr. William Campbell and both religions are extensively discussed here-extensively, in the light of science. It should be noted that this debate is about science and science only- just as the first one is about Jesus's crucifiction and Jesus's crucifiction only. Here is the link: (you need realplayer to play it, the link for downloading realplayer is present at the top of the page in the link below): http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?...titleA&show=25 The one this topic is around is : Ultimate Dialogue : A Debate between Dr Zakir Naik & Dr William Campbell on Dawah, Dialogue and Debates with Non-Muslims- ( Part 1 & 2 - Lecture by Dr William Campbell Part 3 & 4 - Rebuttal by Dr Zakir Naik ) and Ultimate Dialogue : Open Question and Answer Session on Dawah, Dialogue and Debates with Non-Muslims This one is in audio format- no video because the only watchable copy i found for it was broken into 20 parts in youtube. You're not missing anything anyway, except that a couple of slides were shown during the presentation- but you will understand what the slides contain. If anyone finds a better copy, he/she is welcome to post it. both are very very long, but they are definitely worth it. I cant stress enough that this is not meant to hurt any Christian's feelings.I am doing this in good faith and I am not here for a verbal fight. I just want to show them this video and see what replies they have to the points mentioned in the tapes (the 14 points in the first one and the 22 in the second) What is required of Muslims and Christians commenting is to avoid posts such as :'Yeah Islam rules!' or 'What crap, This doesnt mean anything' or anything similar to that. what is required is for people to provide FACTS and FACTS only in replying to either speaker. Again, I am stressing that this isnt meant to hurt anyone's feeling and I apologise in advance if i do so. I hope this topic produces a healthy and clean debate full of facts and free of disrespectful and 'wise-guy' comments. P.S : Don't forget the Q&A session of The Ultimate Dialogue

[Moonbeam]

A strange first post. since atheists dont believe in God they will probably come here and curse both religions, and i sincerely dont want that. if you dont have anything to say, dont say it ' What crap I concur.

[Rock]

see, this is exactly the type of bull i didnt want to see, youre ovbviously an atheist, so please stay out of this, will you? what possible benefit did you do anyone with your stupid post? stop spamming.

[spoon]

see, this is exactly the type of bull i didnt want to see, youre ovbviously an atheist, so please stay out of this, will you? what possible benefit did you do anyone with your stupid post? stop spamming. So uh.. atheists can't have opinions? Obviously you're coming from a position where one of Islam/Christianity is correct, so why is the position that neither is correct 'bull'? Anyway, who's really going to watch all of those videos? Why not sum up the most important points for discussion?

[Rock]

yes they can, but their opinions arent valid here, besides you saw how moonbeam reacted- if you call this a valid discussion, then well... theres a big problem here. you see, the problem is that the discussions dont tackle the existence of God, because both religions have that as a given. Why would an atheist be involved in such a discussion? plus, if you wish to say that both are 'bull' (see, i didnt say that atheism was bull, i said that moonbeam's post was, as it is nothing but a waste of sapce), then that will take us to the point of Does God Exist. Thats a whole other topic and a whole other thread. in debates, i prefer to stick to a certain topic or else it will turn into a flamed, insult-full, multi-topic waste of space. Finally, I said that people are welcome to cooment on either video, not both as they are not related. Just depends on what you would be more interested in : Proof that the Bible itself doesnt say that Jesus was crucified (big shock, ey?) or Proof that the Bible is incompatible with modern science and has numerous scientific mistakes.

[Michael]

Even though I'm not a christian, I would have voted, but I dont know who any of these people are. Looks like nobody else does either. I would say the best argument is the bible, but that doesn't say much. The bible does say that he was crucified too... where did you read that it doesn't? Unless my bible is tainted. I've read it several times, that's one of the reaons I'm atheist.