D'Souza at it again

[Needcatscan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWpk6_Knp34 My response to his main points: 1) Atheists have a higher body count than religion. How many times are atheists going to have to respond to this? Stalin and the others were probably a-astrologers as well, why wasn't it because of that that they killed people? Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack of religion. Why does it just happen to be the lack of religion instead of the lack of something else that caused them to kill people? Like Dawkins has said: "They also have mustaches, so what?" As Sam Harris has also stated, these are regimes that are not based on rationality and reason. Not believing in a religion is about rationality and reason, so how could these regimes' reasons for their mass homocides be based on atheism? 2) If god does not exist, everythin is permitted. in ancient times even the most mean spirited inquisitor was somewhat held back by the idea that he would have to face a last judgement. But when you remove the idea of god there is nothing to hold you back but your own power and will. I'm sorry but no one can take that claim seriously. The people who are the MOST religious are the ones who can do such terrible things and think that god WANTS them to do it and they will be rewarded for it. Show me a person who bases his life on rationality and reason that will torture another human being until they admit they are a witch or warlock (inquisition) or would fly planes into a building killing thousands of innocent people. Yes, the final judgement is definitely their motivation, but in the complete opposite way potrayed by D'souza. 3) Modern science developed in Western civilization and in Jerusalem, etc. The best known scientists were Christians. The best known scientists before Charles Darwin were either religous or deists, for the simple reason that they had no other way of explaining the origin of life, the earth, the universe, etc. Deism was the Atheism of the past. 90% of modern scientists are atheists because they have all the surmounting evidence pointing towards the lack of a god. 4) Atheists have a problem accounting for the world and Big Bang Big bang (read The Language of God by Francis S Collins, a leader of the Human Genome Project and a theist. He lays down a lot of the evidence for the Big Bang), evolution through natural selection. Where's the problem? 5) Matter, space and time all had beginnings, so god lives outside of them since he created them Well that's convenient. 6) Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. No, they say Islam is. Who 'they' are, I have no idea. But considering there is no substantial proof for any one religion being the fastest growing in the world, he should just shut up. 7) Counter new atheists with science and reason To literalists, science and reason say that snakes don't talk, the world is billions of years old, Moses and the ten commandments never happened, and humans evolved from primates (Islam - there's no such thing as flying horses, etc.). For moderates, science and reason tell us Jesus did not rise from the dead and then ascend into heaven, sorry.

[Sandform]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWpk6_Knp34 Deism was the Atheism of the past. Its so funny you should say that, I just went off to someone the other day when they said that religion was the foundation of our country(that being the USA). No, the constitution, and the advent of amendments and the bill of rights are the foundation of our country, our main forfathers were actually deists, thomas jefferson and the larger % of the rest, they believed a God existed, but beyond that they didn't know, he's like a watchmaker, he makes the watch then just looks at it. The under god bull was only added later on. Don't get into the endowed by his creator crap, I just told you they were diests. Just for fun....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niqVV...eature=related On a More serious note....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fG4Z...eature=related it really is a very good video.

[Carôusoul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWpk6_Knp34 My response to his main points: 1) Atheists have a higher body count than religion. How many times are atheists going to have to respond to this? Stalin and the others were probably a-astrologers as well, why wasn't it because of that that they killed people? Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack of religion. Why does it just happen to be the lack of religion instead of the lack of something else that caused them to kill people? Like Dawkins has said: "They also have mustaches, so what?" As Sam Harris has also stated, these are regimes that are not based on rationality and reason. Not believing in a religion is about rationality and reason, so how could these regimes' reasons for their mass homocides be based on atheism? 2) If god does not exist, everythin is permitted. in ancient times even the most mean spirited inquisitor was somewhat held back by the idea that he would have to face a last judgement. But when you remove the idea of god there is nothing to hold you back but your own power and will. I'm sorry but no one can take that claim seriously. The people who are the MOST religious are the ones who can do such terrible things and think that god WANTS them to do it and they will be rewarded for it. Show me a person who bases his life on rationality and reason that will torture another human being until they admit they are a witch or warlock (inquisition) or would fly planes into a building killing thousands of innocent people. Yes, the final judgement is definitely their motivation, but in the complete opposite way potrayed by D'souza. 3) Modern science developed in Western civilization and in Jerusalem, etc. The best known scientists were Christians. The best known scientists before Charles Darwin were either religous or deists, for the simple reason that they had no other way of explaining the origin of life, the earth, the universe, etc. Deism was the Atheism of the past. 90% of modern scientists are atheists because they have all the surmounting evidence pointing towards the lack of a god. 4) Atheists have a problem accounting for the world and Big Bang Big bang (read The Language of God by Francis S Collins, a leader of the Human Genome Project and a theist. He lays down a lot of the evidence for the Big Bang), evolution through natural selection. Where's the problem? 5) Matter, space and time all had beginnings, so god lives outside of them since he created them Well that's convenient. 6) Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. No, they say Islam is. Who 'they' are, I have no idea. But considering there is no substantial proof for any one religion being the fastest growing in the world, he should just shut up. 7) Counter new atheists with science and reason To literalists, science and reason say that snakes don't talk, the world is billions of years old, Moses and the ten commandments never happened, and humans evolved from primates (Islam - there's no such thing as flying horses, etc.). For moderates, science and reason tell us Jesus did not rise from the dead and then ascend into heaven, sorry. You make good solid points. Make a video response!!

[Bonsay]

They think that this is a race for answers. They made up a god and got their answers by saying god did it. Now they think that they won, since atheism doesn't "know" what's going on and they do. Very pathetic if you ask me.

[Rakjavik]

D'Souza is a moron. Hitler was a fricken christian. Tell you what, atheists can take responsibility for Stalin, and religion can take the rest.

[wasup]

2) If god does not exist, everythin is permitted. in ancient times even the most mean spirited inquisitor was somewhat held back by the idea that he would have to face a last judgement. But when you remove the idea of god there is nothing to hold you back but your own power and will. The Brothers Karamazov... Ivan: "There is no virtue if there is no immortality." Later, another character: "His whole theory is squalid. Mankind will find strength in itself to live for virtue, even without believing in the immortality of the soul! Find it in the love of liberty, equality, fraternity . . ."

[Siиdяed]

Hitler was a fricken christian. Um...you sure about that? The Nazi party was very obviously anti-Christian. They encouraged their own pagan, Sun-worshipping faith for awhile, and were considered by many a 'political religion'. Adolf himself was raised a Roman Catholic, and much of the heirarchy and pomp of the Catholic Church can be seen in some elements of the Nazi party, but he abandoned the Catholic faith soon after leaving home. If he was a Christian, it was his own, highly idealised and editted version designed to support the Aryan race and himself as a Messiah-like figure. I'd recommend this, cause it's wikipedia, obv. I'm getting sidetracked. The actual matter of which aethiests or Christians have killed the most is pointless. D'Souza is a moron. Humanity is perfectly capable of killing without much influence from their faith or lack of, and besides, individuals can suit their religion, or lack of, to their own personal beliefs (in the case of Hitler), it neither disproves or proves God.

[Carôusoul]

Um...you sure about that? The Nazi party was very obviously anti-Christian. They encouraged their own pagan, Sun-worshipping faith for awhile, and were considered by many a 'political religion'. Adolf himself was raised a Roman Catholic, and much of the heirarchy and pomp of the Catholic Church can be seen in some elements of the Nazi party, but he abandoned the Catholic faith soon after leaving home. If he was a Christian, it was his own, highly idealised and editted version designed to support the Aryan race and himself as a Messiah-like figure. I'd recommend this, cause it's wikipedia, obv. I'm getting sidetracked. The actual matter of which aethiests or Christians have killed the most is pointless. D'Souza is a moron. Humanity is perfectly capable of killing without much influence from their faith or lack of, and besides, individuals can suit their religion, or lack of, to their own personal beliefs (in the case of Hitler), it neither disproves or proves God. This isnt about christianity, its about religion, and you have just said hitler was religious, in one form or another, hence he was not an atheist hence pwned.

[Siиdяed]

Um, I was argueing about the claim that, and I believe this is what Rakjavik said: Hitler was a fricken christian It's there in my post, see? The...the quoted bit... My point was that we can't just say "Theists have killed more people in history than aethiests, so religion = pwnt".

[Sandform]

Um, I was argueing about the claim that, and I believe this is what Rakjavik said: It's there in my post, see? The...the quoted bit... My point was that we can't just say "Theists have killed more people in history than aethiests, so religion = pwnt". Right that's why he periodically told the people it was "God's will" that the lesser races be exterminated. Regardless of if Hitler believed it or not, it was still perpetuated by christian belief. So the point you were trying to make was a mute point anyway. And at the end of this anyway, the point of this is that no murder has ever been committed in the name of atheism, while on the contrary murder is constantly done in the name of theism. Like here is the tally marks. Murder in the name of theism? (can humans even really count that high counting each person?) Murder in the name of atheism? (zero) Murder because people are stupid? (That is all murder, for the sake of argument, lets just "exclude" religion like we do when it comes to logic and scrutiny)

[Carôusoul]

Um, I was argueing about the claim that, and I believe this is what Rakjavik said: It's there in my post, see? The...the quoted bit... My point was that we can't just say "Theists have killed more people in history than aethiests, so religion = pwnt". But.. but.. religion DOES= pwnt...

[Xaqaria]

90% of modern scientists are atheists because they have all the surmounting evidence pointing towards the lack of a god. I'd like to know where you get your statistics, please.

[Rakjavik]

Um...you sure about that? The Nazi party was very obviously anti-Christian. They encouraged their own pagan, Sun-worshipping faith for awhile, and were considered by many a 'political religion'. Adolf himself was raised a Roman Catholic, and much of the heirarchy and pomp of the Catholic Church can be seen in some elements of the Nazi party, but he abandoned the Catholic faith soon after leaving home. If he was a Christian, it was his own, highly idealised and editted version designed to support the Aryan race and himself as a Messiah-like figure. I'd recommend this, cause it's wikipedia, obv. I'm getting sidetracked. The actual matter of which aethiests or Christians have killed the most is pointless. D'Souza is a moron. Humanity is perfectly capable of killing without much influence from their faith or lack of, and besides, individuals can suit their religion, or lack of, to their own personal beliefs (in the case of Hitler), it neither disproves or proves God. Actually after doing it a bit more reading and listening to debates (D'souza vs hitchens, booktv on youtube) it appears you are correct. He did talk about god quite a bit, but it seems he wasn't really a catholic.... Either way I agree it's pointless. Ever see the episode of South Park (Go God Go)? I have to somewhat agree from the viewpoint that humanity doesn't really need religion to kill each other over, therefore it is pointless to start blaming a certain amount of deaths on them.

[Siиdяed]

I'd like to know where you get your statistics, please. 75.6% of all statistics are made up purely to support claims made on the internet. And yeah, Rakjavik, I agree, we can't use killer's faiths to decide what is right or not.

[Rakjavik]

hey sin, is your sig referencing a linux command? Just curious.

[Siиdяed]

*applauds* In turn taken from an xkcd quote.

[Needcatscan]

hey sin, is your sig referencing a linux command? Just curious. Rak, you are such a geek! I guess I can't say anything, I recognized Seismosaur's std:: in his sig as a c++ reference. So I guess we're in the same boat.

[Siиdяed]

I'm a linux poser. I fail at geek.