The billionaire movie star wager

**Universal Mind** · 02-12-2008 10:09 AM

Why not choose to believe that you are a legendary movie star and a billionaire? If you are wrong, so what? Nothing happens. But if you are right, then you get to feel completely financially secure and have tip top self-esteem. You get to go through life feeling like you can have sex with anybody you choose, which is an attitude that actually will help your sex life even if you are believing in something that is not real. Why not believe it?

**Keeper** · 02-12-2008 12:30 PM

explain the conection to religion please

**psychology student** · 02-12-2008 02:31 PM

What is this? Some kind of half hearted response to Pascal's wager.

**Carôusoul** · 02-12-2008 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by psychology student

What is this? Some kind of half hearted response to Pascal's wager.

It is a parody of it pointing out the fundamental flaws and problems with it.

**Siиdяed** · 02-12-2008 02:53 PM

Mmm...I think that's pretty much the gist of it.

**Mes Tarrant** · 02-12-2008 03:20 PM

Yep that's pretty much the gist of it, and entertaining as well.

**skysaw** · 02-12-2008 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by psychology student

What is this? Some kind of half hearted response to Pascal's wager.

I think it's a legitimate response to it. When examining the logic behind an argument, it often is enlightening to carry it to its extremes.

**Keeper** · 02-12-2008 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Yep that's pretty much the gist of it, and entertaining as well.

How so?

**Bonsay** · 02-12-2008 06:30 PM

Because you can't choose your beliefs. And there's where the wager instantly fails.

**skysaw** · 02-12-2008 06:41 PM

I choose to believe that when we die, those who did not believe in God will be given free pizza (up to 5 toppings). If I'm right... mmmmm, pizza!

**Universal Mind** · 02-12-2008 08:23 PM

Every atheist here gets it. We must have a psychic connection.

**De-lousedInTheComatorium** · 02-12-2008 08:43 PM

I'm a theist, and I find the post very reasonable.

"Why don't I believe I'm a billionaire? Because I don't have a billion dollars."

"How do you know?"

"Because I can't see it!"

"You can't see God either..."

But really, the pascal's wager presents what I think is not a great reason to follow God. I'll stop believing in God before I begin believing in him just to be better safe than sorry.

**Barns** · 02-12-2008 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Because you can't choose your beliefs. And there's where the wager instantly fails.

What?!? Did I misread your post?!

Thats complete nonesense! Your beliefs MUST be chosen by you, or they are not beliefs!

**Bonsay** · 02-12-2008 09:13 PM

Well I can't choose my beliefs consciously. At least I can't, I don't know about you.

**StephenT** · 02-12-2008 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Well I can't choose my beliefs consciously. At least I can't, I don't know about you.

Are you a robot?

**Siиdяed** · 02-13-2008 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Well I can't choose my beliefs consciously. At least I can't, I don't know about you.

Mmmm...I'm similarly worried about this. It suggests you have put absolutely no thought whatsoever into what you believe. Whether that's a theist with blind faith or who has simply never questioned a belief instilled in him by his upbringing, or an atheist that doesn't believe in God and has never even considered why he doesn't, it's not a good thing.

Everyone ought to be able to justify what they believe in.

**Needcatscan** · 02-13-2008 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Mmmm...I'm similarly worried about this. It suggests you have put absolutely no thought whatsoever into what you believe. Whether that's a theist with blind faith or who has simply never questioned a belief instilled in him by his upbringing, or an atheist that doesn't believe in God and has never even considered why he doesn't, it's not a good thing.

Everyone ought to be able to justify what they believe in.

I think the opposite of this is true though. Atheists can't force themselves to believe in a certain religion or god. We can pretend on the outside but if god knows our hearts, we'd be screwed.

**Universal Mind** · 02-13-2008 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Well I can't choose my beliefs consciously. At least I can't, I don't know about you.

I totally agree with you. Belief is not a choice. That is the whole point of my initial post. I challenge anybody who thinks belief is a choice to explain why he/she doesn't choose to believe he/she is a billionaire movie star. What's the problem with choosing to believe that? Why not choose to believe it?

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Mmmm...I'm similarly worried about this. It suggests you have put absolutely no thought whatsoever into what you believe. Whether that's a theist with blind faith or who has simply never questioned a belief instilled in him by his upbringing, or an atheist that doesn't believe in God and has never even considered why he doesn't, it's not a good thing.

Everyone ought to be able to justify what they believe in.

He is not talking about justification. He is talking about choice. He is talking about making a conscious decision to believe something. (So am I.) It is impossible.

**Carôusoul** · 02-13-2008 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Mmmm...I'm similarly worried about this. It suggests you have put absolutely no thought whatsoever into what you believe. Whether that's a theist with blind faith or who has simply never questioned a belief instilled in him by his upbringing, or an atheist that doesn't believe in God and has never even considered why he doesn't, it's not a good thing.

Everyone ought to be able to justify what they believe in.

Yeah I think he meant it in the sense that you cannot believe in the FSM, even if you want to so much; it isn't a choice like that; you need evidence.

**Keeper** · 02-13-2008 04:47 PM

If you can't choose your beliefs, should you mock those of others?

**Carôusoul** · 02-13-2008 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Keeper

If you can't choose your beliefs, should you mock those of others?

You can't choose what you believe as such; but you can choose what you want to believe and you can choose what evidence you allow yourself to know.

**Bonsay** · 02-13-2008 05:31 PM

No you shouldn't mock them. I still do, but don't know why exactly. When people don't seem to know something, I like to help by informing them. I never intend it, but once the belief battles start though, I just fight it out. This always happens, so I just got used to it and now the so called "mocking" starts right away. I guess I can't stand people telling me, that a god who loves me, will send me to hell, it sounds so stupid (sorry).

**Universal Mind** · 02-13-2008 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Keeper

If you can't choose your beliefs, should you mock those of others?

Satire is sometimes the best form of explanation. I have made lots of serious arguments here about how belief is not a choice, and I have gotten close to zero counterarguments. But I keep seeing stuff about, "Choose to believe," and, "God gives you a choice." Have you seen the threads about Pascal's wager? My arguments were falling on the ears of only the atheist choir, so I thought I would try a different approach. Satire often drives in points better than straight explanations, and it definitely does a better job of catching attention. Your responding to me in this thread illustrates that.

So now that I have your attention, please explain why you do not choose to believe that you are a billionaire movie star and relate that to choosing to believe in God. If you think belief is a choice, please explain why and relate it to the issues I have raised. Thanks.