Don't hate on the Mormons :(

[LimoZeen!]

I just read the latest Dream Gallery entry and was a little upset by it. I know it's not anyone's fault - it was just a dream. I just saw a little ridiculing of the LDS religion going on. I'm not really offended, I just don't want to be thought of like that... I dunno it's hard to express. Yes, I am Mormon. Some common myths about Mormons that aren't true: Polygamy: This is probably the biggest one. Polygamy was ordained of God in the early days of the restored church, but quite soon after it was declared illegal, it was discontinued. I want to stress that it wasn't the government who MADE us stop - the leader our church made a prayerful decision that we should. Worshipping Joseph Smith: We don't worship him. I have a huge amount of respect for Joseph Smith, his martyrdom, and his faith and works. But the only person I worship is God. The Massacre: I'm not sure about the details on this, as I never studied it in a class or anything. I can't really say anything for or against Mormons in it, but I do know that not even Mormons are perfect, so it's quite possible that whoever was involved with that made some mistakes. Any questions I will be happy to answer.

[Needcatscan]

How accurate is southpark's episode All About the Mormons? If you haven't seen it you can watch it here: www.southparkstudios.com, click on full episodes, season 7 episode 12.

[dragonoverlord]

As i understand It, if it wasn't for external influence on Mormon relegious leaders and institutions then Polgyamy would probably still be practiced today by the majority of Mormons. In other words it wasn't an independent decesion on the part of Mormon relegious leaders to cease the practice of Polygamy. it was a direct result of external influences. Correct me on this... "Utah was admitted to the Union in 1896 but only under the condition that the Mormon Church ban polygamy, which they agreed to do." http://www.delsjourney.com/close-ups...d_polygamy.htm Secoundly there is already a thread for Questions on Mormonism,

[Needcatscan]

As i understand It, if it wasn't for external influence on Mormon relegious leaders and institutions then Polgyamy would probably still be practiced today by the majority of Mormons. In other words it wasn't an independent decesion on the part of Mormon relegious leaders to cease the practice of Polygamy. it was a direct result of external influences. Correct me on this... Utah was admitted to the Union in 1896 but only under the condition that the Mormon Church ban polygamy, which they agreed to do. http://www.delsjourney.com/close-ups...d_polygamy.htm Secoundly there is already a thread for Questions on Mormonism, Yes but 27 wouldn't answer anything about why he believed in something so ridiculous, so the thread was rather *yawn* inspiring.

[Mes Tarrant]

I too would like to hear your views on the South Park episode. Hehe remember the music? "dum(b) dum dum DUM DUM"

[dragonoverlord]

Apparently its bone chillingly accurate.(The SP episode)

[Needcatscan]

I too would like to hear your views on the South Park episode. Hehe remember the music? "dum(b) dum dum DUM DUM" Joseph Smith was called a prophet, dum dum dum dum DUM! "Something" Harris (don't remember her first name) smart smart smart, Martin Harris dum d dumb!!! Classic episode. Almost up there with the satanic animals from Woodland Critters Christmas.

[LimoZeen!]

How accurate is southpark's episode All About the Mormons? If you haven't seen it you can watch it here: www.southparkstudios.com, click on full episodes, season 7 episode 12. Hm... the Joseph Smith story is correct in substance, if not details. For instance, I don't know where the hat thing came from... he just sat behind a curtain, and it was because he wasn't allowed to show anyone the plates. Also they didn't include all the persecution the Mormons went through. The part about a big happy family was I guess kind of true. I don't think any family is really like that... but Mormon families are closer than most. The end where Gary has his little monologue was a little off... I know I wouldn't say anything like "Maybe Joseph Smith DID make it all up" because I know he didn't. I dunno, the only part that really offended me at all was the "dum dum dum dum dum" vs "smart smart smart smart smart" chorus. And the part about Martin Harris losing the plates was true. One thing they didn't include in the show was the story of Martin Harris asking Joseph Smith to copy down some of the characters from the plates without translating them. He then brought the paper to an ancient languages expert at Columbia University, who verified that they were true ancient symbols. Martin Harris was on the verge of leaving with a signed certificate documenting the truth of the characters, when the Professor asked him where he got hold of them. He told him, and the Professor promptly ripped up the certificate. Anyway for the most part, it's not too far off, but if you want to actually learn about Mormons, South Park is not your best source

[LimoZeen!]

Yes but 27 wouldn't answer anything about why he believed in something so ridiculous, so the thread was rather *yawn* inspiring. Please don't just denounce it as ridiculous - it's ok to have your own views, but that doesn't mean I should say they're "ridiculous" just because they're not the same as my own.

[dragonoverlord]

LimoZeen are you going to answer my question now?

[Mes Tarrant]

Mormon families are closer than most? I don't understand why people feel comfortable with throwing out little statements like these without giving some kind of evidence to back it up. I'm mostly curious about how South Park made a big deal about the dude not willing to prove that what he wrote was correct... The whole episode escapes me now, but whatever the wife suggested he do to prove it?

[LimoZeen!]

I'm sorry, I've been reading 27's topic. I really don't want this to turn into an argument like that one did. I would rather just answer questions and clear things up. So please don't attack me about anything - your logic may prevail over mine. I'm 16, and I'm not trying to convert anyone. What you believe is your business, all I ask is that you don't ridicule my beliefs, however odd or different from yours you find them. Dragonoverlord, I'm not very well versed in the history of Utah's statehood, etc. All I have is a (quite long) excerpt from something attached to the Book of Mormon, which I will post as soon as I have time to find it/type it up. Right now I'm trying to prepare for an audition and write a paper. Mes, I apologize for not having any evidence. I'm sure many of the things I say tonight I will not be able to back up with solid evidence - that's the thing about religion. But I'm Mormon, I live in Utah, and I do know that our doctrine teaches us to love our families in particular. Whether or not you believe me or not is your perogative.

[LimoZeen!]

Mormon families are closer than most? I don't understand why people feel comfortable with throwing out little statements like these without giving some kind of evidence to back it up. I'm mostly curious about how South Park made a big deal about the dude not willing to prove that what he wrote was correct... The whole episode escapes me now, but whatever the wife suggested he do to prove it? Also, Mes, Martin Harris' wife didn't actually hide the pages to see if Joseph Smith could prove he was translating it. Martin Harris lost them, simple as that. So for all we know, the pages that were lost were exactly the same as the new ones he translated again... I'm not sure if he ever translated from "the plates of Lehi" as the South Park episode said. Mormonism is not based so much on solid worldly facts as faith. So when I don't have evidence, it's partially because it's probably not there, and partially because I'm not trying to prove anything. Simply posting what I believe - not trying to convert anyone.

[LimoZeen!]

So to clarify (if that's possible) I am not trying to convert anyone. I don't want to argue with anyone, because I have no doubt that many of you here are more logical than me. I don't claim my religion is 100% logical. I just want to clear up misconceptions. And seriously, South Park is not a particularly good source of information if you want to learn about Mormons

[Needcatscan]

Well thanks for being straight forward about it. I encourage you when you get older to try to step back outside of the Mormon bubble and really look at your beliefs and why you believe them-is it because you were raised to believe them or is it because it is very believable with good historical, archaeological, etc. evidence. Now that aside (and I promise I won't bring it up again. . .in this thread ), do Mormons believe that Jesus actually came to America and Native Americans are cursed Israelites? Also will Jesus reign in Minnesota for the first part of his reign in the second coming?

[Serkat]

And seriously, South Park is not a particularly good source of information if you want to learn about Mormons Blasphemy!

[MrBeelzy]

Worshipping Joseph Smith: We don't worship him. I have a huge amount of respect for Joseph Smith, his martyrdom, and his faith and works. But the only person I worship is God. I have a problem with Mormons because their holy book is a work of fiction. Even if you don't believe in the Bible, it is still a historical document, with people, places and events that we can verify through archaeological and contemporary evidence. The book of Mormon is refuted by archaeological evidence for so many reasons I won't even get into it. It is impossible to look at it as anything but a piece of fiction, which has absolutely no basis is reality. I can respect people with faith, but I can't respect people who can take a man like Joseph Smith and give him any credit. Calling him a man of faith, or a martyr implies that he died upholding his principles, but if he truly believed what he put to page, there are words I would throw out before martyr.

[Serkat]

Even if you don't believe in the Bible, it is still a historical document, with people, places and events that we can verify through archaeological and contemporary evidence. No.

[LimoZeen!]

Well thanks for being straight forward about it. I encourage you when you get older to try to step back outside of the Mormon bubble and really look at your beliefs and why you believe them-is it because you were raised to believe them or is it because it is very believable with good historical, archaeological, etc. evidence. Now that aside (and I promise I won't bring it up again. . .in this thread ), do Mormons believe that Jesus actually came to America and Native Americans are cursed Israelites? Also will Jesus reign in Minnesota for the first part of his reign in the second coming? Yeah I think when I move out I'm going to take a hard look, and I think I will find that it's still true. I probably started out believing it's true because I was raised to, but I really have my own faith in it now - which to me is stronger than historical evidence, of which there actually is some. Yes, we believe that Jesus came to America, and Native Americans are descendants of the Lamanites, who are descendants of a small group of people that left the "Old World" very shortly after the tower of Babel. It's actually Independence, Missouri where we believe there is a valley called Adam Ondi Ahmen - Not sure on the spelling of that or translation, but it's where the original Garden of Eden was, and the site that we're almost sure Jesus will appear in the second coming, although really it could be anywhere.

[LimoZeen!]

I have a problem with Mormons because their holy book is a work of fiction. Even if you don't believe in the Bible, it is still a historical document, with people, places and events that we can verify through archaeological and contemporary evidence. The book of Mormon is refuted by archaeological evidence for so many reasons I won't even get into it. It is impossible to look at it as anything but a piece of fiction, which has absolutely no basis is reality. I can respect people with faith, but I can't respect people who can take a man like Joseph Smith and give him any credit. Calling him a man of faith, or a martyr implies that he died upholding his principles, but if he truly believed what he put to page, there are words I would throw out before martyr. Well I don't believe The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction. Joseph Smith was too uneducated to write something like that on his own. Again, I'm not a history major, so I can't confirm this, but I've gotten the impression from others that the people talked about in the Book of Mormon were the Aztecs, Incas, Olmecs, and Mayans, who have plenty of archaeological evidence to back them up. But even if that is wrong, trying to believe a holy book for worldly reasons isn't the best way to go about it. Joseph Smith was persecuted his entire life, starting at age 14, but he never gave up what he believed in. One night, he was taken outside his home, beaten, tarred and feathered, and throughout the whole episode, his door was left open, killing his baby of a few months of exposure. Another incident documented historically is that of his illegal imprisonment in Liberty Jail for several months. And he knew before going to Carthage Jail that he was going to be killed, but he went anyway, and was killed by a mob for what he believed in. How can I not give credit to him? If that's not martyrdom, what is?

[LimoZeen!]

Blasphemy! XD

[Mes Tarrant]

Seriously? Do you not find it painfully suspicious that mormonism teaches that Jesus this-and-that in America?? Does that not sound like an attempt on the part of Americans to feel like they're actually important in the story? What would you think if the Scottish suddenly announced that the garden of eden was near Glasgow? Do you actually believe the garden of eden story happened, btw? Did Noah's arc happen in Mississippi, or what? I'm sorry, but this is just.... mind boggling.

[27]

Yes but 27 wouldn't answer anything about why he believed in something so ridiculous, so the thread was rather *yawn* inspiring. You mean I wouldn't post the most special and sacred experiences of my life online? No, I won't. But I thought I was clear as to why I believed. Check my post in the "why are you a theist" thread. There were only two topics I didn't want to into in that thread, general questions about theism or Christianity, and questions about my conversion. I was willing to talk about anything else pertaining to Mormonism but it seems people on R/S aren’t content unless they can bash something, thus the thread died. It's still open to anyone that actually cares to learn something about the religion, or wants to present an intelligent argument against Mormonism.

[Rakjavik]

or wants to present an intelligent argument against Mormonism. No offense, but an argument against Mormonism would not have to be remotely intelligent.

[27]

No offense huh? Well, go ahead, make your case.