"GOD EXISTS, ATHEISTS!!! I'll prove it SCIENTIFICALLY!!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluefinger

You are making a claim, therefore it is up to you to substantiate it. I am not obliged to do your research for you. If you are going to bother to debate about this, you should be prepared to justify the reasons for your beliefs, especially if you claim there is evidence for it.

Now Proof or GTFO.

---

also in your statement you're also making the claim that god doesn't exist so it's also up to you to prove that to me.

http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/u.../06/free21.jpg

you can worship the FSM as an idol now, congrats

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

i can turn that around and tell you to prove to me why god doesn't exist though, just because you don't believe doesn't mean you don't have to prove because then i can say just because i believe i don't have to prove he exists to you

you're statement goes either way, people who believe won't go out and prove there is no god

people that don't believe won't go out and prove there is a god

---

In any debate, the burden of proof lies on the proponent of a claim. The sceptic's job is to shoot holes into the claim by analysing the argument and the evidence supporting it, if there is any. If no evidence is presented for the claim, then the argument is dismissed straight from the word go. You made a claim about there being evidence for a God, so now substantiate it or forever rein your tongue until you can do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

also in your statement you're also making the claim that god doesn't exist so it's also up to you to prove that to me.

---

I don't make claims that there is no god, only that there is no good reason to believe in the first place. Nobody has yet given me a good reason, and I don't expect this to change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

you can worship the FSM as an idol now, congrats

---

You can explain why you think he doesn't exist now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluefinger

In any debate, the burden of proof lies on the proponent of a claim. The sceptic's job is to shoot holes into the claim by analysing the argument and the evidence supporting it, if there is any. If no evidence is presented for the claim, then the argument is dismissed straight from the word go. You made a claim about there being evidence for a God, so now substantiate it or forever rein your tongue until you can do so.

---

your claim is god doesn't exist and i'm skeptical of that, so we're at a standstill?

by your statements about how it's up to the non-skeptical to prove wrong in our case we're both skepticals, therefore my argument and your argument both should be dismissed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

if you die and go to hell and it looks like the christian bible's hell then you're in the christian hell, therefore god exists since he created it, that proves god's existance, so drop it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You can explain why you think he doesn't exist now.

---

i never said he didn't exist i said there's no proof to prove he exists or doesn't exist

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

your claim is god doesn't exist and i'm skeptical of that, so we're at a standstill?

by your statements about how it's up to the non-skeptical to prove wrong in our case we're both skepticals, therefore my argument and your argument both should be dismissed

---

Read this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluefinger

I don't make claims that there is no god, only that there is no good reason to believe in the first place. Nobody has yet given me a good reason, and I don't expect this to change.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

your claim is god doesn't exist and i'm skeptical of that, so we're at a standstill?

by your statements about how it's up to the non-skeptical to prove wrong in our case we're both skepticals, therefore my argument and your argument both should be dismissed

---

The claim isn't, "I know that's not true." The claim is, "Huh? I have no reason to believe that, so I don't believe it."

i don't load videos because i use dial-up and scrubs is garbage, if you use comedy central shows as education then good for you, but i don't

bluefinger, you're atheist are you not? therefore you don't believe in any god, if not you're agnostic and you don't know if he's real or not real

by not having any good reason to believe he's real you should just go ahead and believe he's not real

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

bluefinger, you're atheist are you not? therefore you don't believe in any god, if not you're agnostic and you don't know if he's real or not real

by not having any good reason to believe he's real you should just go ahead and believe he's not real

---

Agnostic Atheist I am, because it describes my position most accurately. "There is no evidence for or against the existence of a deity, therefore I find no good reason to believe. I don't make claims knowing absolutely that deities don't exist, but in terms of practical knowledge and to the best that we know, there is nothing to substantiate the existence of God, and so claims of his existence can be dismissed"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

by not having any good reason to believe he's real you should just go ahead and believe he's not real

---

I think you've finally got it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

scrubs is garbage

---

Ahh... It all makes sense now.

you can't be atheist and agnostic lol, atheists believe in no higher being at all while agnostics don't know either way what to think so there's no possible way of being both, you'd be labeled as agnostic by saying you don't claim there is no god

even though i don't have a good reason to believe god is real i'll still believe in him because i myself feel he is real, there is no reason to having to feel this way it's just a belief that i formed

have you all been atheist/agnostic the whole time? or did you once belong to a religion then decided to not believe anymore or are you just skeptical?

and if you are atheist have you never thought that there could be a slim chance there is another higher being possibly?



by skeptical i really mean have doubts, like agnostic, you don't know if he is real or not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

you can't be atheist and agnostic lol, atheists believe in no higher being at all while agnostics believe there's a possibility so there's no possible way of being both, you'd be labeled as agnostic by saying you don't claim there is no god

even though i don't have a good reason to believe god is real i'll still believe in him because i myself feel he is real, there is no reason to having to feel this way it's just a belief that i formed

have you all been atheist/agnostic the whole time? or did you once belong to a religion then decided to not believe anymore or are you just skeptical?

and if you are atheist have you never thought that there could be a slim chance there is another higher being possibly?

---

Agnosticism and Atheism are not mutually exclusive as Agnosticism deals with what you know and don't know, and Atheism deals with what you believe. For example:

Gnostic Theist: "I know God exists and I can prove it. Therefore, I believe"
Agnostic Theist: "I don't know if God exists or not, but I believe regardless"
Gnostic Atheist: "I know God does not exist, and I can prove it."
Agnostic Atheist: "There is no evidence for or against God, therefore I find no good reason to believe."

The terms are not exclusive. As for 'higher possibilities', Occam's Razor still shaves it. In terms of the practical knowledge I've gained through my education, I find that things don't require divine intervention or a divine first cause in order to function. Everything seems to work just fine as it is, so to me, such beings as deities are completely obsolete. They are not needed in order to explain the workings of the world, so until one can conclusively show that one exists, then there's no need to believe.

As for my upbringing, I was brought up in a secular home. Parents didn't force any religion on me and I simply grew up seeing all sorts of belief systems. In the end, I found I could manage just fine without religion.

what religion is prevalent in the UK? catholicism?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

what religion is prevalent in the UK? catholicism?

---

In the UK, it is the Anglican church. Though I've been exposed to both that and Catholicism, along with Hinduism, Islam, and all-sorts...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

even though i don't have a good reason to believe god is real i'll still believe in him because i myself feel he is real

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

by not having any good reason to believe he's real you should just go ahead and believe he's not real

---

Which is it?

i'm going to believe in god universal mind just because i think he's real, where i live christianity is the biggest religion by far, i live in the bible belt so you pretty much have people trying to shove their beliefs down your throat and constantly get pestered to attend church by people

by the way scatterbrain

if you're in the christian hell, god created hell, therefore when you're in something god created it's obvious god must be real

if you can't understand that i recommend a comprehension course

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

by the way scatterbrain

if you're in the christian hell, god created hell, therefore when you're in something god created it's obvious god must be real

if you can't understand that i recommend a comprehension course

---

All that would prove actually is that Hell exists. Perhaps only Hell exists because really, the Universe was Satan's work.

Ending up in Hell would only prove the existence of a Hell, but not of a Heaven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluefinger

All that would prove actually is that Hell exists. Perhaps only Hell exists because really, the Universe was Satan's work.

Ending up in Hell would only prove the existence of a Hell, but not of a Heaven.

---

what i'm trying to say though is if christianity is right and you go to the christian hell then there is a god

Your brain seems to be the one in need of a little tweaking.

Just because a hypothetical hell looks like the bible's hell it doesn't mean it is the hell mentioned in the bible and/or that it had the same origins.

To say otherwise makes as much sense as saying that if a worldwide flood happened it would be proof that the christian god exists.