"GOD EXISTS, ATHEISTS!!! I'll prove it SCIENTIFICALLY!!"
Atheists, please stop making claims without support or scientific evidence. Also, please stop asking questions which were already answered in this video. EX. "Who created God?" Again, the 1st law confirms energy is eternal. Before the universe began, there must have existed an ORIGINAL, initial, energy source which has ALWAYS existed. This initial, original, energy source IS God. ( GOD IS THE CREATOR WHO IS UNCREATED)
Atheists may say " Well, all of the energy in the universe could have derived itself from multiple energy sources, not just a single one".That maybe true, but it still poses a serious problem. Multiple or single unintelligent energy source(s) would most likely result in chaos and disorder.
(cont) Because they can't regulate their outflow of energy thus, dispersing uncontrolled and violent emissions of energy without organization or order unlike an intelligent energy source (GOD).
Every example of DUMB energy source(s) that we can observe are volatile and destructive by nature and will NEVER create organization . Examples : the sun, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes. Sure tornadoes or hurricanes may APPEAR organized but, they will never CREATE organization.
You can still hope that all of the energy in the universe originated from an unconscious, dumb, energy source or multiple ones, but it defies common sense and reasoning. We can clearly observe complexity, design, and order throughout the universe. The possibility of a single all powerful, intelligent, energy source (God) still remains ( This is more logical).
Atheists may also say " Well, based on the 2nd law of thermodynamics God may eventually disorganize and deteriorate overtime if he is composed of energy". God is composed of energy but not entirely energy. The God I serve is composed of INFINITE INTELLIGENCE as well.
(cont.) He can certainly be intelligent enough to break the boundaries of the 2nd law and find a way to harness his energy infinitely and NEVER result in disorder. If you can't agree with this explanation, you're putting limits on God which is simply IDIOTIC.
07-18-2008, 06:50 AM
tnemrot
Huh? When did they started making energy smart and dumb?
07-18-2008, 06:52 AM
nitsuJ
don't ask me
07-18-2008, 07:05 AM
tnemrot
Backwards usernames unite! hi-five!
07-18-2008, 07:08 AM
Mes Tarrant
So essentially god is the energy from which all things came, and it's an intelligent energy because things seem orderly in the universe. Well that's certainly a respectable way of looking at things, IMO! :)
But my first thought is: What exactly is so divinely orderly about the universe in the first place?
My second thought is: Why does something that happens to be orderly have to come from a divine source?
My third thought is: Assuming this kind of thought process helped to start religion... How the hell did Christians, for example, go from "initial energy source" to "He is a Man who hates gays and sends Non Believers to Hell..." I mean, the thought process of a human being really boggles the mind sometimes.
I'm tired.
Edit: lol @ torment :P
07-18-2008, 07:10 AM
nitsuJ
not all christians believe that way :]
all hail torment! haha
07-18-2008, 07:12 AM
Universal Mind
Man, you are struggling to hold onto Christianity and science at the same time, and sooner or later, you are going to realize that it can't be done so easily. It is much easier to believe Eastern religion and science at the same time. I recommend the book The Tao of Physics. Become a Hindu, and then convert me. I want to become a Hindu, like I sort of was at one time. It is very appealing, and a lot of modern discoveries in physics seem to coincide with very old Hindu teachings.
07-18-2008, 07:15 AM
nitsuJ
i took a religion quiz once, i think i actually scored hinduism on it
07-18-2008, 07:38 AM
Universal Mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
i took a religion quiz once, i think i actually scored hinduism on it
:lol:
07-18-2008, 07:56 AM
nitsuJ
yeah, it's bad, satanism or whatever came before christianity i think :o, i think the order was like.. hinduism, buddhism, satanism, christianity
07-18-2008, 08:20 AM
NuB
I'm sorry but that video is really, really, stupid.
Before all this energy spontaneously came into existence, forming all the natural laws that we hold so dear, there were no laws whatsoever.
Energy didn't have to come from "somewhere," it just came into existence from nothingness. Yes, I realize this is hard to wrap your head around, but you have to realize that everything we now know (natural laws etc) didn't exist before this spontaneous creation.
Thus this video is flawed from the getgo. Just because in our universe energy can't be created or destroyed doesn't mean some magykal conscious energy being had to have been the creator.
EDIT: as for the volitility of energy:
The universe didn't start out as a happy place suitible for life. Stars themselves took billions of years to form.
From chaos, through natural laws that were created at the beginning of the universe, came order. It just took a really long time. (This order was possible because energy cannot be created or destroyed btw)
07-18-2008, 12:34 PM
apachama
We have no explanation for the universe came from, therefore some people speculate that God was that cause.
We don't know what caused God.
Therefore we have to assume that either God was caused by another God and the argument regresses infinitely, or that there is a first cause.
This leaves us with two logical explanations. Either God or the universe does not have a cause.
The universe is "a brute fact" but we don't know that God exists.
It is illogical to assume the existence of a cause beyond the universe without supporting evidence.
Even if we do assume that there is an outside cause, called God, this argument tells us nothing about its features. Is God good? Loving? Conscious? There's not reason to assume these things.
As for energy not creating organisation, the sun produces light, which the plants use to live. The plants and are part of a planetary system which involves tornadoes, hurricanes and earhquakes.
The weather system, continental drift, etc may cause damage to Humanity, but they are self-sustaining. Its almost as though they developed gradually over time, not guided by any form of intelligence but simply doing what makes sense for the survival of the system.
I don't know much about planet formation, but this sounds similar to what happened with life to me. Things evolved gradually or died, with no need for an external all-knowing superintelligent God.
07-18-2008, 05:39 PM
nitsuJ
that video made god out to be energry so there was no creation of him, he was just here according to the video, and energy is eternal, yay!
07-18-2008, 05:57 PM
Ne-yo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Man, you are struggling to hold onto Christianity and science at the same time, and sooner or later, you are going to realize that it can't be done so easily. It is much easier to believe Eastern religion and science at the same time. I recommend the book The Tao of Physics. Become a Hindu, and then convert me. I want to become a Hindu, like I sort of was at one time. It is very appealing, and a lot of modern discoveries in physics seem to coincide with very old Hindu teachings.
That's a false statement. Astrophysics definately collides with some of the major teachings of Hinduism especially regarding reincarnation.
07-18-2008, 06:01 PM
Sornaensis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne-yo
That's a false statement. Astrophysics definately collides with some of the major teachings of Hinduism especially regarding reincarnation.
Seis, I told you I've already checked out your little thread, do you really want me to post in there that bad since you've brought it to my attention several times already. You know what? Post that link one more time, and I'm gonna get Good as Gold to take care of my light work. Ya feel me? :wtf:
07-18-2008, 06:46 PM
Sornaensis
Well naturally, considering all of that completely blows your ideas out of the water.
Which is, of course, no surprise then why you refuse to post in said thread.
Go ahead, send good as gold in to post for you.
07-18-2008, 06:47 PM
Universal Mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant
You don't want to be Hindu. They have a caste system. Primitive society.
Well, I mean without all of the rituals, rules, and gods. I like the Atman-Brahman idea about all of existence being one entity of pure consciousness and how all conscious beings are forms of that one consciousness. The only thing left to do is convince myself that it is true.
07-18-2008, 06:53 PM
nitsuJ
you can't convince something is true without proof, but you can't say something is false just because there is no proof of it, there's still the underlying matter that it could exist
same with god, you can't HONESTLY say he's 100% real without proof but you can't sit there and say he's fake because you have no proof to prove he is
07-18-2008, 06:56 PM
bluefinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
you can't convince something is true without proof, but you can't say something is false just because there is no proof of it, there's still the underlying matter that it could exist
same with god, you can't HONESTLY say he's 100% real without proof but you can't sit there and say he's fake because you have no proof to prove he is
Honestly, you can if you see no good reason to believe in the first place. Why? Because it is not upto the sceptic to prove the believer wrong, it is upto the believer to show that his belief is not false or has good reasons for believing. If neither one is met, any sceptic can dismiss the idea.
07-18-2008, 07:01 PM
nitsuJ
i don't agree with that, there is no way to prove of his existance and you won't know until you die, either nothing is going to happen or something is going to happen so that's the way to prove it
as for the caste system, people do that in everyday life all over the world, all a caste system is is social status
07-18-2008, 07:02 PM
Sornaensis
Yea, you're not making any sense.
07-18-2008, 07:04 PM
nitsuJ
how does that not make sense? you want proof god exists or doesn't exist the only 100% way to prove it is to go die, what's so hard to understand about that?
07-18-2008, 07:08 PM
nitsuJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefinger
Honestly, you can if you see no good reason to believe in the first place. Why? Because it is not upto the sceptic to prove the believer wrong, it is upto the believer to show that his belief is not false or has good reasons for believing. If neither one is met, any sceptic can dismiss the idea.
also some people see a good reason to believe because they believe in miracles, and they'd view that as a good reason to believe, or they'll have some sort of vision they think is a good reason to believe
as for a believer having to prove the skeptic wrong it should go both ways, the believer should prove it's real and the skeptic should prove that it's false