Thanks for all the input, guys. My questions have been answered fully, but if there's any growing discussions then feel free to continue them in this thread.
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Thanks for all the input, guys. My questions have been answered fully, but if there's any growing discussions then feel free to continue them in this thread.
I'd answer the question about pre-homo sapian creatures going to heaven with another question. "Do animals go to heaven or hell?"
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Jesus himself teaches that Heaven is WITHIN YOU. He does not teach that heaven is a magical place in the sky by which you gain entry to.
This is why Jesus makes parables that heaven is so easy to 'get' to, that any child can do it. And its entry way as thin as an eye of a needle. Jesus also makes comments that nothing you can do, no righteous deed, is ever enough to get you into heaven. Why is being good not good enough to get into heaven???
Jesus comments about Heaven might seem confusing at first, but that is only if you are imagining he is talking about a place.
The reason no good deed can ever bring you to heaven, is because heaven is not a 'place' you go to.
It is a state of being. And anyone who is familiar with their eastern philosophy of heaven can easily find the parables in Jesus' teaching. It is only people who aren't a familiar with eastern teachings *such as church-goers* who don't realize that Jesus is talking about heaven being a state of being.
it is because it is a state of being that it is 'within you'. And no activity outside of your being can take you there. Understand the subtlety.
You don't need to 'do' anything to be 'happy'. And you can 'do' a happy activity and still be emotionally miserable. That's the difference between doing and being. That's the differencing between 'going' to heaven, and 'BEING' in heaven.
it is because it is a state of being that Jesus says there is only one way to reach God - and that is through the Christ.
these words have been ripped apart, misused, and misunderstood. At no point in time does Jesus teach that you must accept some bloody sacrifice to God to get into heaven. His words were chosen for a reason.
first he did not say heaven. he said God. second he did not say that you must believe in Christ. He said 'through' Christ.
Next we need to define what Christ is. According church goers Christ is a man sacrificed on a cross some 2000 years ago.
But Jesus has a different meaning when he says Christ. And he explains Christ is: The Way, the Truth, the Life.
So let's do some sample algebra and rephrase what Jesus is saying. The only way to reach God is through the Way, the Truth and the Life. It has NOTHING do to with accepting some bloody sacrifice 2000 years ago. It has everything to do with a certain way of being. This way of being does not require church membership or attendance. A way of being is not something you do or are a part of.
Jesus spoke in parables for the same reason eastern teachers did. So that the pupil can come up higher by figuring it out for themselves. The purpose is not to spoon feed you, but give you the opportunity for gnosis.
God is in heaven.
And Jesus teaches heaven is within you.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put one and two together to figure out..that Jesus is teaching that God is Within You.
I'm too lazy to find it, but it's there somewhere in the bible. Jesus makes a comment that at a future time he will reject some so-called followers. The so-called followers will tell Jesus that they did as he said. But he will reject them because they did not accept his true message and they are hypocrites.
When I first read it was interesting that he was talking about a future point in time. About a future group of followers, who are hypocrites. Very fitting don't you think?
how hypocritical Christianity has become, when they have denied the very heart of Jesus teachings. By keeping God this angry distant being in the sky, and denying the true being God within them at every turn. And worse, denying the God within others, including homosexuals.
To answer your question shortly its retarded to imagine a God sending any persons to hell (human or not) for not accepting a bloody sacrifice.
The church is destined to fall because it has denied God
That is a very interesting concept Juroara but take a look at this...
Starting with John 3:15
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Also, can you back up your references with scripture from the Bible please
Ok I have a few problems with these statements. You say that if you don't have language you can't have beliefs. That is wrong. I think my cat believes that if I whistle it means I want her to come to me because she always does. I shoudn't need any more examples for this statement. For the starter of this forum: by this logic all non-christians would automatically go to hell. And I don't know who your preacher person is but he sounds like a complete a**. Whatever happened to "all men are created equal"?
I agree with this 100%. By defenition, evolution is long term adaptation. But again, I'm not saying we came from apes.
One more thing I would like to add. I'm not racist and I don't believe this applies to all Christians, but most of the Christians I know and talk to and hear about (your pastor) seem to be close-minded to suggestion. A lot of the ones I know refuse to even debate the topic at all. I for one enjoy debating things in general. :)
I just felt like posting one of my favorite George Carlin jokes real quick for your discussion. I won't get it exactly right.
These preachers expect us to believe that if you break any of these ten rules (the ten commandments) that you will go the the worst place imaginable where you will burn and suffer in fire and brimstone with agony and pain and suffering for all of eternity. But he loves you.
Personally, I believe that hell doesn't exist. And you'll say "Oh then where do the bad people go?" I say they are not actually bad they are just raised that way and when they go to heaven God makes them realize the error of their ways and that makes them a better person.
:banana: Oh Ricky you're so fine. :banana: