Thread: Split from "Proud to be an American... wait, that's not a country.... ?"

Originally Posted by Replicon

What kind of an asshole of a god would not bless all countries, cultures and peoples equally?

The American God.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

The American God.

God is not America's god. He is anyone's god. Blessings come on heaven, or/and on earth. It just so happens that America is one of the few countries who has honored the age old agreement with God, and Israel. One of the few times we didn't (the only time, to my knowledge) , 9/11 occurred.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

"God Bless America" sucks pretty bad too, but the song I posted is "God Bless the USA", which sounds even worse and is much cheesier. Lee Greenwood sings it.

I seriously don't know how you could dislike "God Bless America", but I guess I understand how "God Bless the Usa" is cheesy. Or wait, are you not American?

Originally Posted by Noogah

God is not America's god. He is anyone's god. Blessings come on heaven, or/and on earth. It just so happens that America is one of the few countries who has honored the age old agreement with God, and Israel. One of the few times we didn't (the only time, to my knowledge) , 9/11 occurred.

Oh please. Stop trying to pretend your God isn't prejudicial.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Oh please. Stop trying to pretend your God isn't prejudicial.

He isn't.

Naturally, having created everyone himself.

Had he been prejudiced, he wouldn't have bothered making them.

Originally Posted by Noogah

He isn't.

Naturally, having created everyone himself.

Had he been prejudiced, he wouldn't have bothered making them.

Prove he really created everyone.

You fug.

I'm talking about sociology. Look at what the belief in your God has done to humanity.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Prove he really created everyone.

You fug.

I'm talking about sociology. Look at what the belief in your God has done to humanity.

I thought we were discussing under the presumption that he did exist. If you would like to discuss why, please PM me. Should be interesting.

Belief in God has saved millions of lives.

Food for The Hungry

The Salvation Army

And lets not forget the thousands of missionaries that help people in third world countries physically and spiritually.

BTW, belief in God is not Christianity. For the sake of not hijacking this thread, if you respond, please do so via pm.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Belief in God has saved millions of lives.

Nah. Assistance has saved millions of lives. Belief in God only helps to keep people indoctrinated.

I will shut up now..

Originally Posted by Noogah

It just so happens that America is one of the few countries who has honored the age old agreement with God, and Israel. One of the few times we didn't (the only time, to my knowledge) , 9/11 occurred.

What event of collective national lack of faith are you referring to that angered god so much that he decided to force a couple dozen men of another faith to commit suicide while murdering several thousand innocents of (presumably) varied religions?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I'm an American, but my government issued computer chip in my brain has a defective Lee Greenwood music neutralizer.

...what!?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

What event of collective national lack of faith are you referring to that angered god so much that he decided to force a couple dozen men of another faith to commit suicide while murdering several thousand innocents of (presumably) varied religions?

None.

You completely missed the point of my post.

Originally Posted by Noogah

None.

You completely missed the point of my post.

Actually, he asked a very specific question, in response to a very specific and non-misinterpretable thing you said. I'd be curious about your answer too.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You completely missed the point of my post.

Your posts are pointless.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Your posts are pointless.

Then don't bother responding.

At least pay attention if you do. I said that we didn't support Israel, and something bad happened. I said nothing about...faithless people of a country being killed by a wrathful god or anything along the lines of that.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Then don't bother responding.

At least pay attention if you do. I said that we didn't support Israel, and something bad happened. I said nothing about...faithless people of a country being killed by a wrathful god or anything along the lines of that.

First of all, when did the US specifically not support Israel.

Second, you said when this occurred, 9/11 happened. So 9/11 was an act of god?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

First of all, when did the US specifically not support Israel.

Second, you said when this occurred, 9/11 happened. So 9/11 was an act of god?

No, it was an act of Israel!

Originally Posted by Spartiate

First of all, when did the US specifically not support Israel.

I pm'ed your response. Don't wanna hijack this thread any further.

It just so happens that America is one of the few countries who has honored the age old agreement with God, and Israel.

Is it even worth responding to this inanity?

What do you even mean, 'the age old agreement'? What agreement? America is supposed to be secular ffs. Many Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. are Americans.

And there are hundreds of countries where Christians live. What makes those countries not worthy? Are you judging them by the actions of the state? Cos, y'know, I can think of a few commandments that the American and Israeli states have ignored. Like the 'don't kill people' one, for instance.

"The only worthy countries on Earth are my country and our buddies the Israelis", just listen to yourself, you're a caricature of brainwashing.

Is it just me, or does Yahweh actually fit the description of the Adversary better than Satan?

He commits genocide, incites people to hatred, demands blood sacrifices from his followers, and will destroy all who do not obey him...all the while claiming to be the good guy.

Uhhh...what?

Originally Posted by OuroborosEterna

Is it just me, or does Yahweh actually fit the description of the Adversary better than Satan?

He commits genocide, incites people to hatred, demands blood sacrifices from his followers, and will destroy all who do not obey him...all the while claiming to be the good guy.

Uhhh...what?

The Bible was written by Satan to corrupt, confuse and mislead. Some people say that the Devil's greatest deception is convincing man he doesn't exist. That's actually his third greatest. His first is convincing people that the Bible was the word of god. His second greatest deception is convincing people that his third greatest deception is his first greatest (thereby cleverly and subtly drawing attention away from it).

Great point, OE. Now that I think about it, what evil did Satan ever commit in the Bible? Did he create Hell, or did God? Isn't Satan bound for the lake of fire? Let's see... He told Eve to eat a piece of fruit God told her not to eat. Considering the tyrranical nature of God, is that really so bad? It's like saying, "No, don't let Hitler tell you what to do." He is called the prince of darkness and the father of lies, but look who's talking. Did he ever claim to have created the the universe, Earth, and all of the life on Earth in seven days? Yeah, we know about evolution now. Busted! Satan supposedly created sin, but doesn't that mean he decided that murder and theft are bad? What else did he do? I don't think he ever put the the entire future of humanity through suffering because some naked bitch running around in the woods of Iraq ate a fruit. He didn't tell anybody to kill their children for disobeying them or to kill people for working on Sunday. He never committed world genocide. What exactly did he do that was so evil? Maybe there is something, but I can't name it right now.

Originally Posted by Mark75

The Bible was written by Satan to corrupt, confuse and mislead. Some people say that the Devil's greatest deception is convincing man he doesn't exist. That's actually his third greatest. His first is convincing people that the Bible was the word of god. His second greatest deception is convincing people that his third greatest deception is his first greatest (thereby cleverly and subtly drawing attention away from it).

My attempts to save this thread from hijacking were futile. I'll continue in this argument until it gets moved to R/S.

Originally Posted by OuroborosEterna

Is it just me, or does Yahweh actually fit the description of the Adversary better than Satan?

He commits genocide, incites people to hatred, demands blood sacrifices from his followers, and will destroy all who do not obey him...all the while claiming to be the good guy.

Uhhh...what?

He doesn't commit genocide. Pft. God created life, he has the right to end it. Killing is wrong when humans kill. God created the game, and he created the players. The players will all leave the board at some point. God has the right to decide when.

Hatred? What? No he doesn't. I have no idea where you get that idea. Satan causes hatred, not God. Although, there is a time for hate (I.E, I hate murder)

Blood sacrifices? Have you read the Bible? Buddy, the whole point of the Jesus' coming to earth was to end the need for blood sacrifices. They are no longer needed.

I have NO IDEA where you get your facts about the Bible. Probably from biased atheists.

I suggest you start looking into things for yourself.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

what evil did Satan ever commit in the Bible? Did he create Hell, or did God?

You really need to read the material you debate.

If it weren't for Satan, humans wouldn't even need to go to Hell.

Hell was not even created for humans, UM. It was created for Satan and his followers.

Satan is the most disgusting creature fathomable.

Yeah, we know about evolution now. Busted!

Evolution isn't/hasn't/never will be a proven fact. it is a theory based on dust evidence.

Satan supposedly created sin, but doesn't that mean he decided that murder and theft are bad?

Satan didn't create sin. I don't know where you got that.

Good and evil always existed. It was the knowledge of both that was kept from mankind. He tempted them, and they decided to gain the knowledge. Hence, they brought destruction upon themselves. Perhaps....they could have said...no?

Originally Posted by Noogah

God created the game, and he created the players. The players will all leave the board at some point. God has the right to decide when.

One of the biggest problems of religion is this right here. Such casual regard for life. You don't really "die" you're just "removed from the board." Yeah, it's not a big deal. Do you not see how that kind of thinking is dangerous? It's dangerous for you and dangerous for others if you really believe that death isn't a big deal. It always strikes me as such a glaring contradiction that so many religious people insist that religion is necessary and that without it, the value of life is lost (although to be fair I don't know if you've said anything like this personally.)

Originally Posted by Noogah

Blood sacrifices? Have you read the Bible? Buddy, the whole point of the Jesus' coming to earth was to end the need for blood sacrifices. They are no longer needed.

Missing the point a bit. Your statement acknowledges that they were at one point not only okay, but actually needed. Your religion is fucked.

Originally Posted by Noogah

My attempts to save this thread from hijacking were futile. I'll continue in this argument until it gets moved to R/S.

Originally Posted by Noogah

He doesn't commit genocide. Pft. God created life, he has the right to end it. Killing is wrong when humans kill. God created the game, and he created the players. The players will all leave the board at some point. God has the right to decide when.

Hatred? What? No he doesn't. I have no idea where you get that idea. Satan causes hatred, not God. Although, there is a time for hate (I.E, I hate murder)

Blood sacrifices? Have you read the Bible? Buddy, the whole point of the Jesus' coming to earth was to end the need for blood sacrifices. They are no longer needed.

I have NO IDEA where you get your facts about the Bible. Probably from biased atheists.

I suggest you start looking into things for yourself.

The worldwide flood was genocide, Jesus and his sacrificed predecessors were blood sacrifices, and God did lots of hateful things in The Bible.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You really need to read the material you debate.

If it weren't for Satan, humans wouldn't even need to go to Hell.

Hell was not even created for humans, UM. It was created for Satan and his followers.

Satan is the most disgusting creature fathomable.

If Hell was created for Satan and his followers only, what are nice Hindus and confused agnostics doing there? Try to back your answer up with a Bible verse.

Thanks for indirectly answering my other question. God created Hell. Did he know what would end up happening because of it?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Satan didn't create sin. I don't know where you got that.

Oh really? Then who did?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Good and evil always existed. It was the knowledge of both that was kept from mankind. He tempted them, and they decided to gain the knowledge. Hence, they brought destruction upon themselves. Perhaps....they could have said...no?

God didn't decide on the bizarre consequences?

What supposed evil did Satan commit in The Bible?

He doesn't commit genocide.

Wrong.

God created life, he has the right to end it.

Glad to know if I ever have a kid and that kid ever pisses me off I can just shoot it in the head.

You idiot.

Evolution isn't/hasn't/never will be a proven fact. it is a theory based on dust evidence.

Again, basically, you're an idiot. You've dogmatically resisted all attempts to educate you. You ignore flat out facts. You have in fact consistently demonstrated a total ignorance of what the theory even is.

You ignorantly reap the benefits of the scientific method which has given you food and heat and light whilst having the hubris to attack that very method; a method which has a sacred freedom from dogma and a unique position to discover truths.

There is no other term for you but a totally close-minded dogmatic moron. It's people like you who hold back the human race, and it's people like you who have been consistently swept up throughout history by demagogues and despots to commit the worst atrocities of mankind.

I really am angry, you are one of the worst kinds of people who has repeatedly refused to change, and that's that.

Oh, and thanks for dodging my questions. Yet another example of your constant doublethink. How can you keep lying to yourself and cowering from the truth like this? I just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Such casual regard for life. You don't really "die" you're just "removed from the board." Yeah, it's not a big deal. Do you not see how that kind of thinking is dangerous? It's dangerous for you and dangerous for others if you really believe that death isn't a big deal.

Well, of course! It's dangerous if one considers death to NOT be a big deal. When someone dies, it's bad, yes. Murder is also horrible. However, when the creator of life ends life, it is not the same as if one life form kills another life form of the same value. God has put every person on this earth for a purpose. The time that they die is essentially up to him, and he is the only person who has the right to make that decision.

In short, if someone dies at the hand of God, no crime has been commited.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Your statement acknowledges that they were at one point not only okay, but actually needed.

God required the sacrifice of an animal, on occasion. Yes. At one point in time, animal sacrifices were needed. Not for fun, not so that we could get our hands dirty with blood, but in respect for God. The animal was killed, and then burned. What? Is this some kind of huge issue with you? The animal would have been used for meat anyways.

Originally Posted by O'nus

The worldwide flood was genocide

Whoa! Way to ignore everything I just said. Well, hopefully my response to Mark75 will help you to see how it was NOT genocide.

Originally Posted by O'nus

If Hell was created for Satan and his followers only, what are nice Hindus and confused agnostics doing there?

O'nus, I would appreciate the courtesy of you actually taking the time to read the post you're debating. Please, don't make me keep quoting myself.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Good and evil always existed. It was the knowledge of both that was kept from mankind. He tempted them, and they decided to gain the knowledge. Hence, they brought destruction upon themselves. Perhaps....they could have said...no?

Let me re-phrase this so you can better understand this.

1.Satan rebelled.

2.God made hell

3.Satan tempted the humans

4.The humans desobeyed God

5.The humans fell victim to the inevetable consequences

Originally Posted by O'nus

God didn't decide on the bizarre consequences?

Sin requires payment. That is not a vain rule made for no reason, it is the simple and basic law that has existed since the beginning of time - possibly even before the beginning of time. You jump from a cliff, you fall to the bottom. You stick your hand in fire, you get burned. You drop an egg, it breaks. You sin, you go to Hell.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Did he know what would end up happening because of it?

He certainly knew what could. He put it on us that we would obey him. After all, having an endless garden full of trees full of fruit and plants, no need to work, no danger, pain ,or sickness. T'was a small responsibility to refrain from that one single tree.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Oh really? Then who did?

Who created God?

Evil and good have always existed. The Bible never mentions it being created. It was the knowledge of such that was kept from Adam and Eve; not the existence.

Originally Posted by O'nus

What supposed evil did Satan commit in The Bible?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Satan is the most disgusting creature fathomable.

Now, to Xei.

Originally Posted by Xei

Wrong.

You wrote off everything I just said about God, and death..in one word....with no argument?

Originally Posted by Xei

Glad to know if I ever have a kid and that kid ever pisses me off I can just shoot it in the head. You idiot.

Originally Posted by Noogah

He doesn't commit genocide. Pft. God created life, he has the right to end it. Killing is wrong when humans kill. God created the game, and he created the players. The players will all leave the board at some point. God has the right to decide when.

God =/= Xei

Originally Posted by Xei

Again, basically, you're an idiot. You've dogmatically resisted all attempts to educate you. You ignore flat out facts.

I take the theories and logically attempt to debunk them. You logically attempt to debunk the attempted debunking. Nothing is ever proven. Points are made, and notes are taken. That's the whole point of debating, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Xei

You ignorantly reap the benefits of the scientific method which has given you food and heat and light whilst having the hubris to attack that very method; a method which has a sacred freedom from dogma and a unique position to discover truths.

I am doing no one an injustice by refusing to believe the theory of Evolution. Not the fact of Evolution, the theory. That is my right. I believe in the scientific method as well, and I do not believe that it supports Evolution. I have found it to be highly flawed, and even scientists that believe in the theory will willingly admit that it has flaws, which is why it is a theory, and not a fact.

Originally Posted by Xei

It's people like you who hold back the human race, and it's people like you who have been consistently swept up throughout history by demagogues and despots to commit the worst atrocities of mankind.

...man! That's a really heavy accusation.

Originally Posted by Xei

Oh, and thanks for dodging my questions. Yet another example of your constant doublethink. How can you keep lying to yourself and cowering from the truth like this? I just don't get it.

Oh, yeah. That question. Sorry Xei, you seem to be one of those people who kind fade into the background in debates. There are usually so many people respondsing, I focus on the larger ones. You tend to make smaller posts.

I'll answer them.

Originally Posted by Xei

What do you even mean, 'the age old agreement'? What agreement? America is supposed to be secular ffs. Many Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. are Americans.

This agreement has nothing to do with America. I'm talking about Israel, and I mean the Abrahamic covenant.

Originally Posted by Xei

"The only worthy countries on Earth are my country and our buddies the Israelis",

...I'm pretty sure I said nothing of the sort. I said America recieved a warning in the form of the 9/11 attacks for dishonoring Israel, the promised nation to Abraham. I then went on to say that I thought in the end, 9/11 really helped America out by bringing the country together and increasing our awareness of terrorism, and giving us a sort of spirtual revival. People were holding hands around the nation and praying alot afterwards.


Okay! Now...did I leave anybody out?