The SSILD test. - 30 days.

Thanks for the welcome PennyRoyal :D

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Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

How are you supposed to tell which ones are more effective if you keep changing it up on yourself?

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For my PhD research I will be randomly allocating participants to one of three groups, which will all involve a different technique. I'm hoping to have somewhere between 50 and 100 participants who will all be naive to lucid dreaming practices. At this stage (before I run my first study) I'm just looking for ideas and also experimenting on myself. For experimenting with myself, I'm trying about 5 different technique and drug combinations. I'm cycling through these combinations (rather than sticking with just one) for two main reasons:

1. I'm interesting in teaching people who know nothing about LDs how to have them. By constantly changing my own technique, I'm hoping I can simulate these people a little more closely.

2. I don't want to confuse the effects of the drugs I'm using with the effects of greater familiarity with the technique. For example, if I did SSILD for 30 days I'd probably be better at it by the end than I was at the start. Then, if I did another 30 days using SSILD with Galantamine+Choline Bitartrate, and if my average success rate was higher than the 30 days with SSILD alone, it would be hard to tell if this was truly due to the drug or just due me being generally better at SSILD.

That's very interesting that you find SSILD more effective than MILD! I'm very interested to see how this thread progresses!

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Originally Posted by Denholm

Thanks for the welcome PennyRoyal :D



For my PhD research I will be randomly allocating participants to one of three groups, which will all involve a different technique. I'm hoping to have somewhere between 50 and 100 participants who will all be naive to lucid dreaming practices. At this stage (before I run my first study) I'm just looking for ideas and also experimenting on myself. For experimenting with myself, I'm trying about 5 different technique and drug combinations. I'm cycling through these combinations (rather than sticking with just one) for two main reasons:

1. I'm interesting in teaching people who know nothing about LDs how to have them. By constantly changing my own technique, I'm hoping I can simulate these people a little more closely.

2. I don't want to confuse the effects of the drugs I'm using with the effects of greater familiarity with the technique. For example, if I did SSILD for 30 days I'd probably be better at it by the end than I was at the start. Then, if I did another 30 days using SSILD with Galantamine+Choline Bitartrate, and if my average success rate was higher than the 30 days with SSILD alone, it would be hard to tell if this was truly due to the drug or just due me being generally better at SSILD.

That's very interesting that you find SSILD more effective than MILD! I'm very interested to see how this thread progresses!

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Sounds like you are just gonna be wasting your time. Consistency is more important am than any drug. You won't be LDing unless you get a random LD that way. (Random LD is an LD you get without a tech, normally comes when you stop LDing for a while, but also happens to people practicing incorrectly). Check out this thread:
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...important.html

Supplements and techniques aren't on anyone's list

Thank you for the link - I am still looking for ideas and the thread you linked for me looks like a gold-mine of information.

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Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Sounds like you are just gonna be wasting your time. Consistency is more important am than any drug. You won't be LDing unless you get a random LD that way [...] Supplements and techniques aren't on anyone's list

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I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months. If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

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Originally Posted by Denholm

I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months.

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I guess you are going to find out, but I honestly think if you throw a technique like SSILD at a novice lucid dreamer it will most likely amount to nothing unless it's a random lucid. The purpose of the dream journal is to improve/retain dream -recall- which is CRUCIAL. You can have 10 lucids a week but it doesn't really make a bit of difference to you if you don't remember them when you wake up.

My success rate is nearly 50%, but I spend a lot of time maintaining my recall and awareness/reality check exercices throughout the day. I had an explosion of success at the beginning of my SSILD trial, but there was a competition here on Dreamviews (recalled dreams, tasks while lucid, etc.. = points) during that time and I was very excited for it - which really set my intention.

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If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

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It's very possible that you won't be able to. It really depends person to person. People that seek out Lucid dreaming in their personal time struggle to have their first lucid for weeks, sometimes months. It took me personally about 6 weeks, but there are members on Dreamviews that registered the same week as I did and still havn't had their first lucid (16 weeks).

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Originally Posted by Denholm

Thank you for the link - I am still looking for ideas and the thread you linked for me looks like a gold-mine of information.

I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months. If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

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Time spent on LDing per day: 7 hours and 50 minutes of sleep, 10 minutes of meditating while laying in bed = 8 hours. I don't DJ, I don't do RCs (unless I feel like it, :P It raises my LDing rate slightly, but not enough to do unless I am on a slump, I do those every time I look at a watch or something. Good to change them up and pick something different every time).

SSILD does seem to be pretty good. I don't think that it is all that cosmic iron says with the "Hypnosis" and all. I think it is a WBTB paired with awareness of your senses, a very good tech if you ask me. WBTB raises awareness, vividness, and recall.

Anyways. 100 is probably the number you are looking for here. 100 LDs till you have the control, stability, and awareness to set up a situation that would fix a psychological disorder, I am gonna PM you a link that should give you a good idea of what type of psychological experiments one can run when LDing.

BUT!!! PTSD normally involves night terrors. :):):):):):):):):):):):):) That is the #1 for making people lucid without a tech. IF you add a small tech to it, you can easily get lucid during nightmares. When you look through intro threads you will see "I learned how to wake myself up when in nightmares when I was a kid.", "I had constant nightmares when I was a kid and then I fought off the monster and realized I was dreaming.", and "I realized I was dreaming and the monster just disappeared." over and over and over again. During nightmares you normally know in the back of your mind that you are dreaming and if it gets too bad you normally wake yourself up. If it is PTSD you simply have to add any number of techs and it should be easy. Recurring dreams are the best dream sign in the world, have them visualize it and imagine themselves realizing they are dreaming, have them repeat as a mantra "When I see **** I will realize i am dreaming.", or any tech really and it should make them realize they are dreaming within a week. It is a gift/curse. I think you should check that out closely. :)

I made that thread hoping people would leave gifts of knowledge on there, it has a lot of good things to review when looking through LDing. A lot of people with more LDs than me on there.

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Originally Posted by Denholm

Thank you for the link - I am still looking for ideas and the thread you linked for me looks like a gold-mine of information.



I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months. If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

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I can't agree with you more. The very goal of SSILD is to make lucid dream induction accessible to everyone. I found that combining supplements with SSILD can produce much higher success rate and more stable/wilder lucid dreams. It is a combo I'd recommend to anyone, novice or pro. Good luck with your research!

Ok, so I've read a couple of posts today that have mentioned SSILD, yet try as I have, I can't find any posts on what it actually entails or indeed even stands for. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, I don't know, but you have peaked my interest. Just for the noobs out there -ME- would you please explain how I go about practising SSILD...? Thanks in advance.

Nicho...!

Nicho, I tried to post a link to the most up-to-date SSILD tutorial but apparently I need to be a member for a few extra days before I can post links! I think you'd find it in a previous post in this thread (not sure exactly where though).

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Originally Posted by CosmicIron

I found that combining supplements with SSILD can produce much higher success rate and more stable/wilder lucid dreams.

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CosmicIron, are there any supplements that you have found to be especially effective in combination with SSILD?

Day 23 - FA, didn't catch it for a lucid

Day 24 - 1 Lucid

24 Nights, 10 Successful (12 Lucid, 2 FA)

Tried SSILD again last night. No LD, but I did (again) find myself in a subsequent dream talking to dream characters about lucid dreaming. I also have a memory of thinking I was nearly in a dream after doing SSILD and trying to rub my hands to stabilize the dream. I *think* I ended up rubbing my hands in real life and assuming I wasn't asleep. I don't remember what happened next but I think I entered a non-lucid dream fairly quickly.

I feel that the SSILD technique serves as a kind of "bridge" between waking consciousness and the dream world in a way that other non-WILD techniques do not seem to do. At least in my own (very limited) subjective experience so far. Very interesting technique!

3 Nights, 0 Successful (0 Lucid, 0 FA)

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Originally Posted by Nicho

Ok, so I've read a couple of posts today that have mentioned SSILD, yet try as I have, I can't find any posts on what it actually entails or indeed even stands for. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, I don't know, but you have peaked my interest. Just for the noobs out there -ME- would you please explain how I go about practising SSILD...? Thanks in advance.

Nicho...!

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Hi !

this is the original revised tutorial of SSILD.


If you get insomnia from it, you can ckeck cosmiciron's tips but also check out this book (page 254, 255, 256 but preferably the whole chapter 3)


Lucid Wishes :dreaming:

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Originally Posted by Denholm

Nicho, I tried to post a link to the most up-to-date SSILD tutorial but apparently I need to be a member for a few extra days before I can post links! I think you'd find it in a previous post in this thread (not sure exactly where though).



CosmicIron, are there any supplements that you have found to be especially effective in combination with SSILD?

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The most effective so far is galantamine and alpha GPC combo. Basically you get up after 4 hours of sleep, take the supplements and immediately go back to bed. Perform a few SSILD cycles -- don't do too many because you don't want to wait till the supplements cross the blood brain barrier which may cause insomnia. This should set up the stage for a wild experience an hour or two later. Make sure you RC upon each subsequent awakening because you will be having FAs like crazy. The nice thing about this combo is that you don't have to spend a long time to try to induce a WILD. Traditionally after taking these supplements you need to spend a long time doing relaxation and other WILD techniques, and they only become effective after the supplements begin to work. This process can take more than an hour and you often risk not being able to fall back to sleep. With SSILD you only need to spend between 5-10 minutes. You may feel this is too short and want to repeat the cycles more. Don't! The supplements are your fuel and SSILD the key. You start the engine and let it roll. Don't want to crank it all the times right? :)

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Originally Posted by Denholm

Tried SSILD again last night. No LD, but I did (again) find myself in a subsequent dream talking to dream characters about lucid dreaming. I also have a memory of thinking I was nearly in a dream after doing SSILD and trying to rub my hands to stabilize the dream. I *think* I ended up rubbing my hands in real life and assuming I wasn't asleep. I don't remember what happened next but I think I entered a non-lucid dream fairly quickly.

I feel that the SSILD technique serves as a kind of "bridge" between waking consciousness and the dream world in a way that other non-WILD techniques do not seem to do. At least in my own (very limited) subjective experience so far. Very interesting technique!

3 Nights, 0 Successful (0 Lucid, 0 FA)

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I think your observation is correct. There is one especially interesting observation based on my personal experience which supports what you say. it usually goes like this: I woke up some time later from doing SSILD. Reality checked and I was not in a dream. I could no longer utilize the split seconds to perform DEILD or similar tricks because I have physically moved around quit a bit. At this point, I would fully relax the back of my head, allowing it to sink into the pillow, and begin to shift my "focus point of self-awareness" (don't bother looking it up, it's my own "invention" LOL). This would often result in immediate vibrations, ringing sounds, and so on. Even without those, I can usually shift to a different phase easily and quickly. I have done this sort of phase shifting for years and it is possible for me to shift from fully awakened state to dreams within seconds. However, this is still rare and difficult to achieve. On the other hand, with SSILD as the warmup, this stunt can be accomplished every single time! I cannot help but think that SSILD did something that seems to weaken the bound of our physical reality.

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Nicho, I tried to post a link to the most up-to-date SSILD tutorial but apparently I need to be a member for a few extra days before I can post links! I think you'd find it in a previous post in this thread (not sure exactly where though).

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That's ok, I found the technique tutorial. I tried it before bed - against your advice - and I immediately felt the room starting to spin, but then I just woke up.
The next night, I tried a WBTB with SSILD, but I may have stayed up to late to make it effective. I am going to stick with this one, joint venture with WBTB, I will of course post and results, good or bad as per usual.

Thanks,

Nicho...!

N.b. Heres a link to an SSILD tutorial that may shed some light on the matter, hope it help. If CosmicIron has any problems, PM me and I'll remove it right away.

Day 25&26 no Lucid

26 Nights, 10 Successful (12 Lucid, 2 FA)

Havnt been using SSILD last few days, but I did last night with success. I actually had a handful of FA's (3) last night as well.

27 Nights, 11 Successful, (13 Lucid, 5 FA)

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Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Sounds like you are just gonna be wasting your time. Consistency is more important am than any drug. You won't be LDing unless you get a random LD that way. (Random LD is an LD you get without a tech, normally comes when you stop LDing for a while, but also happens to people practicing incorrectly). Check out this thread:
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...important.html

Supplements and techniques aren't on anyone's list

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^this is so crucial. Lack of results is caused by lack of the fundamentals of lucid dreaming, not doing techniques 'wrong'. This is not to say that techniques don't train in the fundamentals, but they are ancillary.

Those results are so impressive, I wonder why I still haven't started incorporating this tech in my disorganized ld approach. My disorganized approach? Yeah, that's probaly the reason. :D Have to work on that! :P

Good job, Penny, keep it up! :goodjob2:

Thank you Penny! Almost to day 30...mixed feelings as I look forward to your updates on this technique.

Seems to have been an effective induction technique for me and many others...but yes, you still need the fundamentals to make real strides(especially with PTSD I would think) unless you are some kind of natural.

I completed the 30 days, No success the last three days.

Final Score:

30 Nights - 11 Lucid occurrences, 13 Lucid Dreams total (5 False Awakenings)

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Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

I completed the 30 days, No success the last three days.

Final Score:

30 Nights - 11 Lucid occurrences, 13 Lucid Dreams total (5 False Awakenings)

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Nice job Penny!! :)

Trying to get back into the swing of things. This test worked really well for me last time, going to take another shot at it and see if I can improve from last time.

I havn't had a lucid since September. We'll see how things go this time around. Tonight will be night 1.

One major problem i had while doing SSILD was falling asleep too soon. Since i discovered this, it has become more effective. So i keep my forearm upright until i finish ssild.

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Originally Posted by VagalTone

One major problem i had while doing SSILD was falling asleep too soon. Since i discovered this, it has become more effective. So i keep my forearm upright until i finish ssild.

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Doesn't it say that if you asleep too soon to just stay awake longer? General WBTB rules will apply to this. :)

With WBTB i have more dificulty falling asleep and it takes more willpower. And with this trick you can stay on the edge of sleep wich i think is a good thing to learn. But WBTB is good too, no question.