Thread: The SSILD test. - 30 days.

Originally Posted by Denholm

Thanks for the welcome PennyRoyal



For my PhD research I will be randomly allocating participants to one of three groups, which will all involve a different technique. I'm hoping to have somewhere between 50 and 100 participants who will all be naive to lucid dreaming practices. At this stage (before I run my first study) I'm just looking for ideas and also experimenting on myself. For experimenting with myself, I'm trying about 5 different technique and drug combinations. I'm cycling through these combinations (rather than sticking with just one) for two main reasons:

1. I'm interesting in teaching people who know nothing about LDs how to have them. By constantly changing my own technique, I'm hoping I can simulate these people a little more closely.

2. I don't want to confuse the effects of the drugs I'm using with the effects of greater familiarity with the technique. For example, if I did SSILD for 30 days I'd probably be better at it by the end than I was at the start. Then, if I did another 30 days using SSILD with Galantamine+Choline Bitartrate, and if my average success rate was higher than the 30 days with SSILD alone, it would be hard to tell if this was truly due to the drug or just due me being generally better at SSILD.

That's very interesting that you find SSILD more effective than MILD! I'm very interested to see how this thread progresses!

Sounds like you are just gonna be wasting your time. Consistency is more important am than any drug. You won't be LDing unless you get a random LD that way. (Random LD is an LD you get without a tech, normally comes when you stop LDing for a while, but also happens to people practicing incorrectly). Check out this thread:
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...important.html

Supplements and techniques aren't on anyone's list

Thank you for the link - I am still looking for ideas and the thread you linked for me looks like a gold-mine of information.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Sounds like you are just gonna be wasting your time. Consistency is more important am than any drug. You won't be LDing unless you get a random LD that way [...] Supplements and techniques aren't on anyone's list

I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months. If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

Originally Posted by Denholm

I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months.

I guess you are going to find out, but I honestly think if you throw a technique like SSILD at a novice lucid dreamer it will most likely amount to nothing unless it's a random lucid. The purpose of the dream journal is to improve/retain dream -recall- which is CRUCIAL. You can have 10 lucids a week but it doesn't really make a bit of difference to you if you don't remember them when you wake up.

My success rate is nearly 50%, but I spend a lot of time maintaining my recall and awareness/reality check exercices throughout the day. I had an explosion of success at the beginning of my SSILD trial, but there was a competition here on Dreamviews (recalled dreams, tasks while lucid, etc.. = points) during that time and I was very excited for it - which really set my intention.

If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

It's very possible that you won't be able to. It really depends person to person. People that seek out Lucid dreaming in their personal time struggle to have their first lucid for weeks, sometimes months. It took me personally about 6 weeks, but there are members on Dreamviews that registered the same week as I did and still havn't had their first lucid (16 weeks).

Originally Posted by Denholm

Thank you for the link - I am still looking for ideas and the thread you linked for me looks like a gold-mine of information.

I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months. If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

Time spent on LDing per day: 7 hours and 50 minutes of sleep, 10 minutes of meditating while laying in bed = 8 hours. I don't DJ, I don't do RCs (unless I feel like it, It raises my LDing rate slightly, but not enough to do unless I am on a slump, I do those every time I look at a watch or something. Good to change them up and pick something different every time).

SSILD does seem to be pretty good. I don't think that it is all that cosmic iron says with the "Hypnosis" and all. I think it is a WBTB paired with awareness of your senses, a very good tech if you ask me. WBTB raises awareness, vividness, and recall.

Anyways. 100 is probably the number you are looking for here. 100 LDs till you have the control, stability, and awareness to set up a situation that would fix a psychological disorder, I am gonna PM you a link that should give you a good idea of what type of psychological experiments one can run when LDing.

BUT!!! PTSD normally involves night terrors. That is the #1 for making people lucid without a tech. IF you add a small tech to it, you can easily get lucid during nightmares. When you look through intro threads you will see "I learned how to wake myself up when in nightmares when I was a kid.", "I had constant nightmares when I was a kid and then I fought off the monster and realized I was dreaming.", and "I realized I was dreaming and the monster just disappeared." over and over and over again. During nightmares you normally know in the back of your mind that you are dreaming and if it gets too bad you normally wake yourself up. If it is PTSD you simply have to add any number of techs and it should be easy. Recurring dreams are the best dream sign in the world, have them visualize it and imagine themselves realizing they are dreaming, have them repeat as a mantra "When I see **** I will realize i am dreaming.", or any tech really and it should make them realize they are dreaming within a week. It is a gift/curse. I think you should check that out closely.

I made that thread hoping people would leave gifts of knowledge on there, it has a lot of good things to review when looking through LDing. A lot of people with more LDs than me on there.

Originally Posted by Denholm

Thank you for the link - I am still looking for ideas and the thread you linked for me looks like a gold-mine of information.



I appreciate what you're saying here, and I suspect that some people may think that I'm looking for unrealistic short-cuts. I don't want to go into *too* much depth justifying my research because that would be off topic. However, I would point out that for lucid dreaming to be a viable therapeutic tool within clinical psychology, it is important to make lucid dreaming as accessible to novices as possible. If someone presents with PTSD or some other issue, it isn't very practical to ask them to take up meditation AND do regular reality checks through the day AND spend half an hour (or more) every day on a dream journal AND maintain all these things (or some other combination) for weeks or (more likely) months. If psychotherapists can't show people how to have LDs within a few attempts, they probably won't try to show them at all. Some of the people in this very thread are reporting success rates nearing the 50% mark with SSILD - thus my interest in this relatively new technique.

I can't agree with you more. The very goal of SSILD is to make lucid dream induction accessible to everyone. I found that combining supplements with SSILD can produce much higher success rate and more stable/wilder lucid dreams. It is a combo I'd recommend to anyone, novice or pro. Good luck with your research!

Nicho, I tried to post a link to the most up-to-date SSILD tutorial but apparently I need to be a member for a few extra days before I can post links! I think you'd find it in a previous post in this thread (not sure exactly where though).

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

I found that combining supplements with SSILD can produce much higher success rate and more stable/wilder lucid dreams.

CosmicIron, are there any supplements that you have found to be especially effective in combination with SSILD?

Originally Posted by Denholm

Nicho, I tried to post a link to the most up-to-date SSILD tutorial but apparently I need to be a member for a few extra days before I can post links! I think you'd find it in a previous post in this thread (not sure exactly where though).



CosmicIron, are there any supplements that you have found to be especially effective in combination with SSILD?

The most effective so far is galantamine and alpha GPC combo. Basically you get up after 4 hours of sleep, take the supplements and immediately go back to bed. Perform a few SSILD cycles -- don't do too many because you don't want to wait till the supplements cross the blood brain barrier which may cause insomnia. This should set up the stage for a wild experience an hour or two later. Make sure you RC upon each subsequent awakening because you will be having FAs like crazy. The nice thing about this combo is that you don't have to spend a long time to try to induce a WILD. Traditionally after taking these supplements you need to spend a long time doing relaxation and other WILD techniques, and they only become effective after the supplements begin to work. This process can take more than an hour and you often risk not being able to fall back to sleep. With SSILD you only need to spend between 5-10 minutes. You may feel this is too short and want to repeat the cycles more. Don't! The supplements are your fuel and SSILD the key. You start the engine and let it roll. Don't want to crank it all the times right?

Nicho, I tried to post a link to the most up-to-date SSILD tutorial but apparently I need to be a member for a few extra days before I can post links! I think you'd find it in a previous post in this thread (not sure exactly where though).

That's ok, I found the technique tutorial. I tried it before bed - against your advice - and I immediately felt the room starting to spin, but then I just woke up.
The next night, I tried a WBTB with SSILD, but I may have stayed up to late to make it effective. I am going to stick with this one, joint venture with WBTB, I will of course post and results, good or bad as per usual.

Thanks,

Nicho...!

N.b. Heres a link to an SSILD tutorial that may shed some light on the matter, hope it help. If CosmicIron has any problems, PM me and I'll remove it right away.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Sounds like you are just gonna be wasting your time. Consistency is more important am than any drug. You won't be LDing unless you get a random LD that way. (Random LD is an LD you get without a tech, normally comes when you stop LDing for a while, but also happens to people practicing incorrectly). Check out this thread:
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...important.html

Supplements and techniques aren't on anyone's list

^this is so crucial. Lack of results is caused by lack of the fundamentals of lucid dreaming, not doing techniques 'wrong'. This is not to say that techniques don't train in the fundamentals, but they are ancillary.