Law Of Attraction (discussion of idea)

[Placebo]

At this point, these are more ideas than fully designed research experiments. Hopefully together we can flesh it out. Please note that you need not believe in the Law of Attraction in the mystical sense in order to do this experiment. If that's the case, simply consider it to be psychology 101: Positive thinking. 1) Using Law of Attraction to attain lucid dreams. This applies more to those having a 'dry spell' and those who struggle with lucid dreams. 2) Using lucid dreams as the place to exercise the law of attraction. i.e. in your lucid dreams, actually act out what you want to happen. This is obviously for those who regularly attain lucid dreams, or for those who have successfully used (1) Those unfamiliar with the law of attraction: In short, it's the concept that dwelling on things in a positive way causes those same things to happen. Exercising it involves spending time regularly visualising what you want, as if you already had it. And visualising the consequences of your intentions coming true. i.e. the concept that "Wishful Thinking" and "Daydreaming" works. At the very least, from a psychology aspect. I personally believe this from a mystical point of view, based on experiences. But you need not. When I first heard the concept, I wrote it off as new age rubbish. But despite it's origins, it seems to work (for me). In a big way. But if you wish to argue the efficacy of the concept, feel free to discuss it here: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...law+attraction Discussion of 'attaining lucids' experiment (#1) The difficulty with this experiment is trying to weed out confirmation bias and file drawer effect (i.e. forgetting that you had negative results, and focusing exclusively on the positive results) In order to stay positive, you need to at least spend part of your day forgetting about the negative results and focusing on what you're going to get. But the experimentee needs to be honest about the findings when reporting them. To combat this, we need a baseline for the experimentee and result sheets that reflect an unbiased result. And the experimentee should continue doing exactly what they have been doing thus far. Example questions: How many lucids did you have last month (before experiment). What did you practice in order to achieve this? Were you under stress? Do you believe in the Law of Attraction (psychologically or otherwise)? This isn't a complete list. Thats what this thread is for - discussion on the proposed experiment. Discussion on experiment #2 The trouble with this experiment is in what the intention (wish) is that you exercise Why? 1) The results need to be comparitive. Apples to apples. If person X works towards a lot of dosh, and person Y works towards peace in the family... it's not comparable. Or is it? 2) Because if you wish for something that isn't feasible, and you don't believe that it could happen, that may arguably influence results. We preferably need to find an intention that is falsifiable, but not mystical in nature. I think. Anyone want to ponder how this kind of experiment could be done scientifically?

[Placebo]

Hmm. So much for people taking this seriously Oh well, I'll experiment on my own

[Tornado Joe]

Woh, woh - hold up! Just saw this post. Count me in. I've been doing alot of reading and research into this on my own for the past several months. Primarily on the scientific side of it. I'm gradually looking more into the consciousness (or observer) aspect of it. Gimme a day or so to go over what you proposed. I'll get back to you hopefully soon.

[Tornado Joe]

Ok, here's my thoughts: The difficulty with this experiment is trying to weed out confirmation bias and file drawer effect (i.e. forgetting that you had negative results, and focusing exclusively on the positive results) Simply trying to "forget" past expierience actually goes against what LOA's basic principle is - that you are in fact responsible for everything that has (and will) come to you. Trying to forget or dismiss your previous experiences only implies that your missfortune or failed efforts were the cause of outside forces, and not your own control. So, the first thing the subject has to do is claim complete responsibility in the fact that he/she has previously had bad luck in attaining lucidity (or achieving goals in lucids). One way to do this is sort of simple - "I failed previously because I have not yet tried this new method which I am about to try" To combat this, we need a baseline for the experimentee and result sheets that reflect an unbiased result. And the experimentee should continue doing exactly what they have been doing thus far. I think the scoring system needs to somehow be blind to the subject himself. By this I mean, the subject should not keep track of the "+" and "-" themselves, or at least should not be able to look back on previous results. One reason; the results themselves can have an effect on optimism of the experiment and the person can get sidetracked by it. If the subject notices a string of negative results, they may lose optimism and then interest. On the other hand, if there should appear a line of positive nights, the person will use this track record as an indicator that "it's working" and use this confidence in succeeding nights, rather than the LOA. Not that it's a bad thing, but the experiment IS about the effect of LOA in the end. How does one keep track, but not really keep track? I dunno, it's kinda hard to do. I think one should agree to a long term commitment - like a month or two. Then, the subject submits the results to someone else who records the positive or negative result. The subject will at first keep track in their head for a while, but hopefully lose track and forget until the end of the experiment (where the entire course of the experiment can then be tallied up). 1) The results need to be comparitive. Apples to apples. If person X works towards a lot of dosh, and person Y works towards peace in the family... it's not comparable. Or is it? I don't think the intention itself would be that relative. All "results" can be paired down into one universal variable: "positive" (or comforming with the person's intention), or "negative" (not conforming to the intention). EXAMPLE: Person a wishes to have lucid wich involves someone who's passed away, person b simply wants more lucid dreams. Even though person a's report could come in varous degrees of success while person b is a simple "yes" or "no" - both can report if each night they had a positive or negative overall. 2) Because if you wish for something that isn't feasible, and you don't believe that it could happen, that may arguably influence results. Ah, this is also another trapped way of thinking that is actually the opposite. See, the more outrageous or difficult the goal, the more convincing the LOA is when you start seeing results. Sure, you could sit there and be like "Ok, I'd like to be driving a 2008 silver convertible by next summer". As you know, LOA won't just suddenly pull the car up to your drive while you sit there and wait. It'll drop hints along the way and give you clues as to how you can get the car: EXAMPLE: The following week you might be out in your old clunker car (or riding your bike) and see the car in an ad, on the street. That's when you go . A month later you might receive some junkmail saying "Get this new Motorola phone with service and you will be entered into a drawing to win THIS car" - upon which you'll go . A week later, you'll "accidentally" drop your phone from your balcony and it will shatter into a hundred pieces. As you scoop up the pieces you'll run across the Motorola ad in the garbage (which you most likely threw away) and go Anyway, I got off topic. For the scoring system, there might be a way each person could record the results themselves without seeing previous results. I bet I could come up with a Flash app that you simply enter a value like "1" and "0" and then it writes it to a text file which you can access after 30 or 60 days. That might work.

[Placebo]

You misunderstood me on some points, but overall, thanks for the response. What I meant by the 'forgetting the negative' was for the experiment's purposes, not LOA itself. ie. not allowing negative bias to influence the results given by the subject. Some people are naturally more whiney and pessimistic than others. And what I meant by more feasible goals influencing results, is that asking for a million dollars but not really believing it's possible will influence the result, unless the subject is good at combatting that sort of thing. ie. it's possible to counter the occasional negativity, but only if the subject knows how. While I like the positive/negative rating system, it suffers from another problem. If person A asks for R100 by the end of the month, and person B asks for a lamborgini. And person A succeeds and person B fails There's going to be doubt cast on whether it was simply coincidence that caused the R100. It's not a lot of money, and could have been caused by a number of less controversially charged causes other than LOA. It's a tricky one.

[Mystic7]

Hmm. So much for people taking this seriously Oh well, I'll experiment on my own I'll try something...just let me know.

[heinerich]

Well... if you have time to check on my dream journal (link on sig) you will see that I have been using the LoA for sometime now. I use the LoA since I read the 'Science of Getting Rich', about two years ago... and since then, things have been fairly easier in my life. i.e.: scholarships abroad; my current prep school scholarship; money affairs; relationship affairs I am a believer in the LoA, no matter what one may say. I can see a huge improvement on dream recall, and haven't put intentions on LD yet... only on recalling. I have read other works, books... if you want me to participate, just pm... I would like a 'detailed' description of this experiment too thanks

[Placebo]

Thanks Heinerich - now that there's 3 interested people, it's more doable. But it's not such an easy experiment to set up and figure out how to do. Gotta work out the kinks first

[heinerich]

Placebo, I would like to suggest two exercises that work best for me. 1-The GRATITUDE exercise. In this exercise, the subject must be grateful for everything he/she has. Example: ‘something bad’ is a bad relationship, or a unfortunate experience… the subject must be grateful for being alive, and for having the chance of changing the outcome of those situations. Of course, being grateful for something good is much easier. HOW: I would strongly suggest that from the moment you wake up to the next day when you wake up, to be grateful for everything around you. The food, the job, the people you live with, everything. Also, be grateful for the good things that are coming to your life. In Lucid Dreaming, or dreaming, I believe that a way of being grateful is for keeping records of everything. This is why the dream journal is so important. Instead of having any pessimistic approach to the matter, the subject must be the MOST POSITIVE about it. In addition, the subject would need to be grateful for the things that it has achieved so far, and be grateful that sooner it will be doing thrice better than it is doing now. WHEN: Always! WHY: Since the Law of Attraction, attracts to us similar thoughts, being grateful and most positive about things must bring you more things that you are positive grateful about. 2-The VISUALIZATION BOX exercise. In this exercise, the subject will create a box in which he/she will put the things that he want in life and then visualize him/her self having it already. HOW: In this exercise, you will need to create a box (you can use anything that you can put things into, i.e.: a chart, a PowerPoint presentation…). In this box you will put pictures, words etc… of the things you want to achieve in you life. Put pictures of relationships you would like to have, of places you would like to visit, a myriad selection can be done! Now, you need to open your box very often and look at the things inside VISUALIZING YOURSELF ALREADY HAVING it. I cannot stress how important this is. Think of yourself in the places, doing the things, having the relationships you selected in your box. How does it feel? It must feel good! In LD, or dreaming, you can put in your box what you want to do in your dreams. What place do you want to visit in your dreams? What do you want to do when you are dreaming? Just think about it… WHEN: Putting stuff in your box: always! Visualizing yourself with the things you want: daily, at a time that you are positive, if you are not be at this moment! WHY: Visualizing yourself doing the things you want will trigger thoughts that must attract similar thoughts in the future.

[Placebo]

Thanks, but those aren't descriptions of how to do the experiment. With an experiment, you need to try track the results in a fair and unbiased way, and that's very hard to do with LoA BTW, I don't believe LoA is the miracle for everything. It's only the first tool that is quite powerful, but needs other tools to be used with it. ie. If you want a boeing, but know nobody at the airlines, and never don't search for information about boeings and boeing owners, LoA will probably not be enough. Actively seeking the opportunities and taking opportunities are also important in the whole thing.

[heinerich]

Thanks, but those aren't descriptions of how to do the experiment. With an experiment, you need to try track the results in a fair and unbiased way, and that's very hard to do with LoA BTW, I don't believe LoA is the miracle for everything. It's only the first tool that is quite powerful, but needs other tools to be used with it. ie. If you want a boeing, but know nobody at the airlines, and never don't search for information about boeings and boeing owners, LoA will probably not be enough. Actively seeking the opportunities and taking opportunities are also important in the whole thing. I use the LoA to keep myself motivated... it is not that a money tree is going to grow in my backyard. Being motivated does miracles! One of the things that help dream recall is the intention to remember it... so... somehow it is related to LoA...