Thought Processes and Meditation

[Mickeys_Elbow]

This is a conversation Howetzer and I had a few days ago that I think should go here. Please respond with any thoughts or opinions you may have regarding any of this. Mickeys_Elbow: I've recently (quite by accident) gone beyond my original exercise of thought without words by completely eliminating images from it as well. It's hard to describe because it's so intangible. Not only are images eliminated but the thoughts associated with other senses as well. Basically just pure thought. I really do think that by furthering my efforts in this I could potentially bring my subconscious mind to the forefront. The conscious mind is constantly effected by what it perceives, and as far as my understanding goes, the subconscious effects how it is perceived. So if the mind is cut off from the thoughts that are associated with the senses it becomes free to delve in the realm of subconscious. Quite in the way that lucid dreaming allows, only different because lucid dreaming is a playground for the senses. Doing this disregards all sensory input whatsoever. If I can master this I feel that I could explore my subconscious mind while being awake, thus relieving the "dumbed down" effect that lucid dreaming often has. I will work more at this and tell you about my progress, and if you could also try this out and tell me what you experience it may help. To me this seems to be a very incredible train of thought to follow. Howetzer: Mickeys_Elboy! Does this have any relationship to the couple of posts I have had about a similar state? If not it is nice to see someone I can relate with. So I am familiar with what you are talking about. Now how to do it agian I do not know. Here is an exerpt from my Dream Journal; I have had four expiriences that have grabbed my attention. I am in a state that has been described to me as a deep lucid. Unlike sleep paralysis on these occasions I am completly concious but without the abilty to move or have any auditory input or visual characteristics. Just a void of conciousness. It has been explained to be called a near death expirience. I am still in the process Of coming to my own conclusion. A state at which you become Lucid during Delta sleep. Also look up posts under (near death expireieces) and (trapped in purgatory!!!) Mickeys_Elbow: Sounds similar but quite different I think. The state I am experiencing is one where I am pretty positively not asleep. It's a state I strive for now when I meditate. I am still able to be aware of what is happening around me, I can open my eyes and look at things, hear the heater kick on, etc. but it is the thought process involved that is altered. The thoughts that go through my head are not images, sounds, words, or anything of the sort. They stop being physical in a sense and are just... thought (maybe not the most understandable descriptive word here, but if you experienced it just plain "thought" would make sense). Like a cloud of unknowing almost. A vacuum of thought I guess. For example, when the heater turns on or the dog walks down the hall my thoughts tell me that I understand this and know it is happening albeit without thinking about it... It's like knowing the answer without asking the question. I hope I'm explaining it well enough, still seems kind of strange to me so I'm sure its quite more obscure to you, heh. Sorry if I'm confusing. Howetzer: Yes. That does explain it better & is quite differant from what I was talking about. But what you are talking about I think I understand (ITs hard to put into words. you are right.) It is like thinking of a thought almost as not an actual thought but an object. (can't think of a better example -but I know that is not the word I am looking for.) Could you explain how you get to this point in more detail. feel free to post any of this in the Research team / = It is some interesting stuff. Mickeys_Elbow: Yes, maybe we should move this entire discussion to the research forum, but that can be done at any time. When I meditate it is not always in a calm sitting position as is the orthodox way of doing it. I often just focus outside of what I am doing (maybe it's just because I'm an ADD kid lol). I just systematically remove one train of thought at a time, as something pops up I simply let it go through til it is finished then quickly dismiss it until the frequency of popups lessens eventually to none. I've never timed how long this takes but it seems to take less and less time the more I practice it. I've only achieved this state a handful of times and only quite recently. The first time it happened it was quite brief, maybe five seconds, but it was enough to make me go, "WOAH." It was the surprise that made me lose it. Howetzer: The more you explain the more familliar it is becoming. I similar approach I have tried is to = As each thought comes to your head don't think of it as a thought but put it on a cloud and watch it float away. (I think this is where I got the Object Idea.) Place the object rather than a thought on the cloud. And like you had said they become less frequent.

[Merck]

I don't know where to get one exactly but it sounds like you could really get some use out of a deprivation tank. I bet that could make getting to the state of mind that you are discussing a little easier.

[Howie]

This is some type of altered state of consciousness. Where it lies is anybodies guess. Is it a form of hynagogic imagery. Though we are not talking about images HI does not need to consist of images. I have had HI with just what seemed to be consciousness. I think Mickeys_Elbow may have taken this a step further. Some self induced hypnosis maybe? Sounds pretty interesting. Can you reach this state at will?

[shel]

i think ive experienced similar states. the last time i recall it occurring was during a toning session. i would tone the scales to each corresponding chakra, which tends to really take me inward. by time i got up past the heart chakra and into the head i was not even really concsious of what i was doing, but it like i was really doing it. there was a sense of not trying, but doing, or rather being. i dont know if this is the same, but i remember the first time it happened during a meditation it startled me enough to break my meditation. i didnt see anything, but it was like a light got turned.

[Tornado Joe]

I saw a movie called "Dragonfly" which goes a bit into near-death and consiousness levels. There's a scene where this nun is telling the main character (kevin costner) "Ask any anesthesiologist and they will tell you that there are hundreds of levels of consiousness of the human mind ... we are only aware of the top 4" <--(not sure exactly what number she said) We all know that we only use a small percentage of our brains so there is definitely something out there (or in there) that needs exploring. It sounds like you are all experiencing different "steps" on this same ladder. I'm wondering if the information on this page may be of any help in your quest. I'm looking into meditation myself and hope to someday be able to reach another "step" like you have.

[Howie]

Appreciate the information, I bookmarked the link. Originally posted by Tornadoe Joe I'm wondering if the information on( this page ) may be of any help in your quest. I'm looking into meditation myself and hope to someday be able to reach another \"step\" like you have.