Thread: slowing and speeding time

Time goes the same rate at absolute zero as it does at a billion K. Temperature does not matter, only gravity and speed, how many times do I have to say that? Where are you getting your information about temperature and time dilation?

Originally Posted by Xei

'No temperature at all'; what does this even mean? Can you actually explain what temperature is?

How's that drawing coming along?

no temperature at all is absolute zero
no, i can't explain what temperature is, but i can explain what it does. [i think] the only reason we can see an object is because it has a signature vibration. i assume if you were able to slow an objects molecules down enough it would simply *poof out of perseption, but that doesn't mean it has mysteriously vanished. you know what, i can't explain it but i'm pretty sure someone smarter that i am will get the jist of what's been said and gently slap you across the face with it

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Time goes the same rate at absolute zero as it does at a billion K. Temperature does not matter, only gravity and speed, how many times do I have to say that? Where are you getting your information about temperature and time dilation?

from my head. where are you getting yours, a book

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

no temperature at all is absolute zero
no, i can't explain what temperature is, but i can explain what it does. [i think] the only reason we can see an object is because it has a signature vibration. i assume if you were able to slow an objects molecules down enough it would simply *poof out of perseption, but that doesn't mean it has mysteriously vanished. you know what, i can't explain it but i'm pretty sure someone smarter that i am will get the jist of what's been said and gently slap you across the face with it

I think it's a bit optimistic to think you're going to slap me across the face when you can't even define what you're talking about. Seriously, just ruminate on that for a second. You're talking with confidence bordering on hubris about something you have no conception of.

I'm amazed you don't know this but we see stuff because light reflects off it (or the object itself generates light).

I don't mean to speak for ninja but he'd probably tell you that he's getting his information from scientific experiment rather than guessing. You can't cool anything to absolute zero, and cooling things down does not make them disappear.

if nothing is there for light to reflect off ...see where i'm going with that -
i told you i wasn't smart enough to explain it, i also told you someone else would understand what i was getting at, i just didn't know it would be you. i think you're wrong about not reaching that zero though, just my opinion

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

if nothing is there for light to reflect off ...see where i'm going with that -
i told you i wasn't smart enough to explain it, i also told you someone else would understand what i was getting at, i just didn't know it would be you. i think you're wrong about not reaching that zero though, just my opinion

It's not a matter of opinion, we're talking about science here. You can put forth a hypothesis that you believe that objects can reach absolute zero, but you would have to have some kind of reasoning behind it and be able to demonstrate it through experiments. So far all experiments/theories point that objects can't be cooled to absolute zero. Even a single hydrogen atom floating in the vast darkness of space between galaxies will not reach absolute zero.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

So far all experiments/theories point that objects can't be cooled to absolute zero. Even a single hydrogen atom floating in the vast darkness of space between galaxies will not reach absolute zero.

rather than suggest it's impossible, how about you help me figure out a way to make it so

I don't think it's possible, and neither do scientists that are far more knowledgeable than me. I'd rather invest my energy elsewhere.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

from my head. where are you getting yours, a book

From 6 years of advanced physics, including relativity. The only way to change the speed of time is massive gravitational fields or speeds near the speed of light. This is the equation for the speed of time, care to point out temperature?

Code:

dt[E]^2 = ( 1 - 2GM[i]/r[i]c^2 )dt[c]^2 - ( dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 )/c^2

And no, it's not physically possible to be at absolute zero. Quantum physics' Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle does not allow it. I'm not suggesting it's impossible, I'm positive that it isn't possible, and mathematics confirm that.

Every quantum state has the property that the root mean square deviation of the position from its mean: sqrt((x - <x>)^2)

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

no temperature at all is absolute zero
no, i can't explain what temperature is, but i can explain what it does. [i think] the only reason we can see an object is because it has a signature vibration. i assume if you were able to slow an objects molecules down enough it would simply *poof out of perseption, but that doesn't mean it has mysteriously vanished. you know what, i can't explain it but i'm pretty sure someone smarter that i am will get the jist of what's been said and gently slap you across the face with it

This is incorrect. Light is external. What happens is that a photon (light "particle") hits an atom. It get absorbed by the atom and adds energy to it, then it vanishes and become part of the atom. An electron jumps a quantum level, but it is in an unstable state at that elevated quantum level, so shortly after, the electron falls back to a lower orbit and releases that energy, the exact amount that the original photon had (conservation of energy,) which we perceive as reflected light. The reason really hot thing glow is because the heat that is being imparted to an object can also cause electrons to jump levels, and fall back down, converting that heat into light. Understand?

Light is a very complex phenomenon and it requires advanced understanding of quantum physics to know why things work the way they do. It's behavior is complex, counter intuitive, and weird. Did you know that a photon actually has no concept of time? It can travel a quadrillion miles instantaneously in terms of it's own existence. It acts as a wave and a particle and switches between the states. It can even be in two places at the same time. It has momentum, but no mass yet feels the effects of gravity. It can both push and pull matter depending on the state of the matter. Its path is predictable in large scale, but random at the atomic level. Even though photons themselves are tinier than quarks, they sometimes can't even fit through a holla-hoop. The only reason I understand why light has all of these properties is because I understand both relativity and quantum physics.

It's oddest properties deal with speed, it is always observed at the speed of light. Of you a riding it the back of a truck traveling 50km/h and you throw a ball at 40km/h. On the truck, you perceive the ball moving at 40km/h, but someone standing on the road sees it at 90km/h. If you're in a space ship traveling at half the speed of light and you turn on a light. You perceive the light leaving at the speed of light, but so does person standing still. Weird huh? That's because the people in the ship are experiencing time differently, which is what this thread is about in the first place.

If you disregard Heisenburg's Law and could get something to absolute zero, yes, it would be black, but because it's dark not because it doesn't have colour properties, it'd be no different than putting it in a closed room with no light. The instant you shine light on it, you impart energy (photons have momentum and push on atoms when absorbed and moving atoms is heat,) which takes it out of absolute zero state. Of course, it doesn't change the fact that quantum physics doesn't allow it.

I'm going to be less tactful and charitable in my presentation here: you know jack shit about what you're talking about.

no, i can't explain what temperature is

What a surprise.

but i can explain what it does

This should be good.

[i think] the only reason we can see an object is because it has a signature vibration

Have you even heard of the concept of light? You know, that thing that bounces off stuff and allows us to see objects?

How can you not know that?

i can't explain it but i'm pretty sure someone smarter that i am will get the jist of what's been said and gently slap you across the face with it

Congratulations, you've just accused someone studying at one of the best universities in the world and who's scientific knowledge dwarfs yours as being ignorant when he has correctly pointed out you're wrong.

Here's a hint, the jist of what you've said is complete bullshit. The others are correctly pointing this out.

from my head

Ah, that explains many things. Like why he's right and you're hilariously wrong.

i assume

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Congratulations, you've just accused someone studying at one of the best universities in the world and who's scientific knowledge dwarfs yours as being ignorant when he has correctly pointed out you're wrong.

is that what you thought i was doing

Originally Posted by photolysis

Ah, that explains many things. Like why he's right and you're hilariously wrong.

i do what i can with what i have

Originally Posted by photolysis

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

i think i do, but shit i've been wrong about everything else

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Congratulations, you've just accused someone studying at one of the best universities in the world and who's scientific knowledge dwarfs yours as being ignorant when he has correctly pointed out you're wrong.

Where do you study? Princeton? Harvard?

I wasn't talking about myself

I did do a few years of Chemistry at a pretty respected UK university though. Oh man was there a lot of Physics to learn as part of the course.

Topic moved to Science & Mathematics. Carry on bright scholars.

This really wasn't a scientific thread. :/

Time dilation is general relativity and light is quantum physics. How is it not science? It was my decision to move it btw.

Well just because the OP was asking about meditation and things; it struck me as more philosophical and I don't think he really wanted to hear about relativity.

i'll keep my bs out if you want it moved back

You can barely spell, and confuse 'temperature' with 'heat'... yet you claim to have an understanding of how to slow time by manipulating temperature. Hmmm. The simple fact is, that outside of incredibly massive cosmic events (and a few other choice things) there is no way to actually slow/speed time significantly. It's all in the perception, and even more so in the memory of the event.

Tests have been done where athletes and people in hazardous situations are observed for any increased perception of time, and outside of heightened reflexes there was little effect. The "matrix" effect that some people claim to have felt (everything was in slow motion etc) are actually caused by the brain's perception and 'remembering' of memories which are slowed down after the fact.

ok

you know, the funny thing is that the crackpot in me has long suspected that the second law is actually the origin of time and more fundamental than it is normally given credit for. I'm neither inclined nor able to back that up ATM and I fully acknowledge that it is currently viewed as a purely statistical phenomenon that is emergent rather than fundamental. Seeing this thread makes me laugh though.