Serious problems with sleeping

[Nick89]

I hardly ever fall asleep before 3 pm. Sometimes it happens even that I'm awake until 5 pm... When I already fall asleep, though, I don' wake up in the middle of the night or anything like this. I wake up at 12-13. It is hard for me to say whether I'm refreshed and relaxed in the morning, really, anyway, another important thing: it really happens very rarely that I'm feeling sleepy when I go . to bed. It is just that it is so late so it is simply the time to go to bed. The situation is like this for the last year or so. Of course I've already tried it like this: I go to bed at 4 or so, when I'm already feeling 'tired', but still it always took me at least an hour to fall asleep. And then I woke up at 8 or 9. During the day I did not sleep, didn't have any dozes. The only result was that after 4-5 days I was constantly sleepy and still, when I went to bed, I couldn't fall asleep. This is rather odd, isn't it? I've been to a doctor and a psychologist. The doctor told me that the problem is with the inability to 'shut down' my mind, to just stop thinking. The psychologist gave me diazepam, which helped a bit, but not much. I've also had zolpidem prescribed, didn't help in the long run. I've tried taking baths, running, drinking milk, eating a lot of food before going to bed... whatever one can think up... With no apparent result... An interesting thing is that there were two very short periods when I fell asleep qiuckly. The first few days I was on a 2-week trip to London, and the first few days after removing to a new flat. It is as if it was easier to me to fall asleep in different surroundings than usual, it is not always so, though. Obviously, I want to solve the problem for the sake of my health and my well being. Still, as I'm on this forum, it is not difficult to guess that I am very interested in LD and want to achieve this. But how to do this if I don't even get enough sleep? However, about half a year ago, despite of my sleeping problems, I was able to recall 2-3 dreams each night. I even had two very, very short lucid dreams (few seconds for which I was aware that I was dreaming and then the dream faded away). Any advice?

[Zhaylin]

You could possibly have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome, but it's not likely since it's only effected you for a year unless you moved into another time zone. You may want to look into anti-anxiety meds if it persists (seeing how you can't shut down your mind). Also, ask a doctor if you could take Provigil- but that's more for Excessive Daytime Sleepines, so scratch that one seeing how you're not very sleepy throughout the day (unless I misunderstood). Someone suggested to me to "move my bed time forward instead of backwards". Maybe that is something you could try? I'm in a similar situation, but I've been this way since at least my pre-teens. I never have been able to have a "normal" schedule. Try looking into the thread about alternative sleep schedules. Perhaps something there could be of help. I hope you find relief soon.

[hellohihello]

Oh my. What you just described..... is me -_-", except the psychologist part. I cannot fall asleep before twelve or get up before 10:00. I have been complaining about this forever but no one will do anything. Try reading that makes me sleepy. If that doesn't work try this http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.ph...0.msg49364#new

[Nick89]

Actually, it is not that I've had problems with sleeping only for the last year. I always had problems with sleeping, only now it has reached it's peak. I always needed at least an hour-hour and a half to fall asleep (only occasionally I would fall asleep qickly), I hardly ever wasn't sleepy at school, esecially if my classes started at 7:45 or 9:00. There is one major problem with 'moving my bedtime forward': classes at university - on Monday 11:40 (not that bad), on Tuesday 7:30, Wednesday 7:30, Friday 9:10... And the second thing is that there is a lot off free time during the late night hours and I usually just get bored and it makes me slightly frustrated and so makes more difficult to fall asleep.

[Umbrasquall]

Do you get up early on Mondays or sleep until class time? It's important to keep to a similar schedule. If you don't, your sleep will really get messed up. It's like forcing yourself to change timezones every night. So try getting up on Monday at whatever time you are used to get up on Tuesday when you have early class.

[Nick89]

That's impossible. I've got classes at 7:30 on Tuesday and Wednesday. According to your advice, I would have to wake up at 6 am each day, so go to sleep at 9 pm every day in order to get enough sleep. You see it makes no sense...

[SKA]

Wow I've exactly the same problem. My mind also won't shut down. It just keeps buzzing full speed. Especially have this in dark, cold wintertime. It is my vision that this is due to some kind of Unrest/tention that is trapped inside of you and needs to get out. When I think of releaving this tention I don't mean to drug it into submission with opiates and Benzos, but Rather to, somewhat spiritually, access this Tention/unrest and to purge it from your body/soul. Think Yoga, Ayahuasca(not just for anyone!), Accupuncture, Sweatlodges..and similair purgative practices. You have alot of tention you need to let out of you. Because Psychology and psychiatry scientificly deny the existance of a Spiritual/Soul body they stand helpless in curing this type of Insomnia and similair complaints resulting from similair tention. They have desribed me the most strong, bizarre sleep aid (Midazolam) after a lifetime of all other sleep aids, from Diazepam to Zolpidem, have totally failed to help me fall asleep. Also I'm not at all very fond of the idea of eating toxic pills that are VERY addictive while at the same time learning to become reliant on external means to get to sleep. I have found the "unscientific"and rather "spiritual" practices to be most effective in purging oneself from such tentions. Yoga has worked very well for me but I need to get deeper into that. However Ayahuasca is bliss to me. I did Ayahuasca in a Ceremonial setting in a Dutch church of Santo Daime and I've felt releaved of a whole lot of internal stress/tention. I will continue to participate in Santo Daime's Ayahuasca healing services as it very effectively did, at once, what I had hoped my many years of Psychiatrist-prescribed medications would do but failed to do. However Ayahuasca is incredibly intense, both physically and mentally, so it is not recommended for just anyone to go and do. I guess It requires some previous Psychedelic experience and some knowledge of Entheogenic healing, such as the services of the Santo Daime church.

[Nick89]

Ayahuasca is in essence the same as DMT, right? I've already learned a lot about this substance. However, it is illegal in most countries in the world, as far as I know... Well, your account of taking part in some Dutch spiritual practice puts that into doubt, though... I've already tried Salvia Divinorum, I could even say I'm quite experienced as for salvia, and I must say it gave me a deeper insight into myself. It is something very positive, allowing me to fight with negative mood.

[Arimane]

I also have that syndrome, the Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS), I go to sleep at 5 am usually... and well, what can I say is that you are also in a dsps age. In the teens, usually until 18-22 years, is reported a prolungation of the circadiam time, that goes from little less than 24 to 25, and also the instable chemistry of brain in this age is relevant. I think, by the way, that the nocturnal, diurn type of person is also a genetical staff, to be honest. I’ ve always in my life went to sleep late. Ayahuasca? Purgative? Is not a sickness... can be, but also not. I took Aya, I’ m not in love for her, but surely I still go to sleep late... and no, I wouldn’t raccomand to anyone I don’t know to take it For interest, the Ayahuasca active principles are now considered DMT and MAOI. The DMT is inactive without MAOI. But... the original recipes are very different from each other, and still those plants contain more alkaloid than just dmt (Caapi also has Hermaline ecc.). edit: for going to sleep more early, you can try to defeat the problem from the other way. Go to sleep every day at least 30 minutes- one hour later, more if you can, until you reach to go to sleep at 9, 10 in the night. Works better than melatonin, light exposure ecc.

[Nick89]

edit: for going to sleep more early, you can try to defeat the problem from the other way. Go to sleep every day at least 30 minutes- one hour later, more if you can, until you reach to go to sleep at 9, 10 in the night. Works better than melatonin, light exposure ecc. Hey, that's an idea! Have you invented it yourself or found somewhere? I've got a notion that it will work, though obviously it requires a lot of determination. But I'll manage, and in two weeks report on the forum if this helps.

[Arimane]

I think I read it in an article, or maybe a book don't know. But I' ve tried on myself and is the one that works better! =) for me, surely. Also I suggest, the day that you stop your time, do a lot of activity, sport, I mean: go to sleep tired. Thanks for making this experiment, let us know how is going! =)

[Nick89]

The 'experiment' will end in about 2 weeks time. Hmm, experimenting on myself, always liked it. I think that the results may not necessarily be of any value, though... Why? Well, actually, at this time I'm studying and classes often interfere with my new sleeping schedule. So sometimes I've got to sacrifice some sleeping time. Of corse, I've made a resolution that I will not sleep 'outside' the scheduled time. In practice, it means that at some days I may get only 4 or 5 hors of sleep a day instead of planned 9. For example, my plan for today (when I'm writing this it is 5:33, Tuesday) is to go to sleep at 8 and wake up at 17. I'm sacrificing 3 classes, but I don't care much, in the past I used to occasionally miss classes just out of laziness and now it is because of a much serious thing. But tomorrow I've got some classes at 7:30 and on 10:50 which I just have to attend. And my schedule for tomorrow is to sleep from 9 to 18. Therefore, I will only be able to sleep from 13:30 to 18. Yeah, I'm crazy, I know. Do you think it will somehow prevent me from achieving the result I want? After all, for the last months I've got used to occasionally sleep no more than 4 or 5 hours a day. And yet I think not getting enough sleep will actually only make it easier to fall asleep quickly, won't it? Well, I hope in two weeks time I will just go to sleep at, let's say, 10 pm, fall asleep in 15 minutes to half an hour and wake up in the morning rested and full of energy. That's my aim. Hey, forgot one thing, wake up from a wonderful lucid dream and write it down with a glow of satisfaction on my face in my DJ. Cheers

[Arimane]

Hey Nick. Well, is veeery unhealthy to sleep so little. For your heart, for your liver, for your psyche... so if you can, avoid recuding your necessary hour of sleep. Can also be a problem for the experiment, yes. But also a good thing, depend on how you using it! I mean: you're now accumulating hours and hours of sleep debt. And you' ll have to pay off, a day. Now... it can be bad if, for that, you sleep much more than the 8 hours during the experiment. I mean, 11 hours of sleep, like that. Would be very hard than for you to go to sleep just an hour later than the day before. BUT when you'll arrive at your point (going to sleep at 10, something like that I guess), you'll just need to lay on the bad and the sleep debt will make you sleep, without many problems if you biological watch has stabilize under that time. That's the point: we have in our day some hours of fully awake, some of sleepiness. And they don't depend on how much you sleep. For example, I went to sleep at 11 this night. But at 3 in the morning I' m fully awake, my biological watch is running and strong, so I woke up at 2,30 (now is 5 in the morning here). So, if you feel that you are moving your watch great thing. If not, and for you is difficoult to go to sleep at a time, don't run to move it an hour later, habit yourself a bit. Sorry for the long post, hope that helps. Anyway, also polyphasic sleep can be a solution for you

[Nick89]

Don't say sorry for a lengthy post, actually I'm very thankful you got interested in my problem. And I do my best not to reduce my planned amount of sleep which is 9 hours. I never manage to sleep so 'long', though, it's always 6-7 hours even if I decidenot to go to classes. On Friday I have classes from 9 to 16 and my due to my plan I should go to sleep at 11. So I guess I'll only attend the first lesson. The experiment is more important then lesson, after all, I can make up for these classes later. And my health is more important, of course. On the other hand, a funny thing happened today at about 9:30. I was comig back from classes, due to my schedule I would go to sleep at ten. On my way back home, I virtually felt 'whacked', or 'high'. Probably there is some relationship between sleep deprivation and an unexplicable sense of well-being. I was listening to music and coldn't help smiling, I felt so good. I mention it just out of curiosity. Has anyone also had this feeling of being 'high' when not getting enough sleep? And why is it so? [QUOTE]So, if you feel that you are moving your watch great thing. If not, and for you is difficoult to go to sleep at a time, don't run to move it an hour later, habit yourself a bit.[/QOTE] I feel that my watch is slowly being moved. At present, when it's 6 am I feel like I would have felt a week ago at abot 11 pm. At 8, 9 I'm already veeery sleepy. And I think the experiment just works, from todays point of view, because for the last few days it never took my longer to fall asleep than, say, 15 minutes.

[kaydenn]

ok so i just learned about delayed sleep phase syndrome and im thinking i must have it because i have a ridiculously hard time falling asleep. Ive always thought i had a bad case of insomnia till i heard about this though and it sounds exactly like what i am experiencing. The normal time i fall asleep is between 5 AM and 8 AM and in fact its hard to remember the last time i fell asleep before then. If i try to go to bed earlier it doesnt do any good and even makes it worse a lot of the time if i want to fall asleep. Many a night i dont even go to sleep at all, probably at least twice a week, because it gets to be 8AM and i just give up and get up for the day. Even when i stay up all night the night before though I still am almost always up till 5am still the next day, and it seems like its gotten worse and worse. however once i am asleep im out lol and will commonly sleep til. 3pm or even later if i let myself. Does this sound like a pretty sure case of DSPS? Any advice and do treatments help, like should i make a doctor look at this and diagnose me? I commonly complain about insomnia to my doctor but she never seems to give it a second thought. I've gotten used to i guess dealing with it....kind of....i am a college student and frequently miss class cause i cant sleep or get up..but i still manage to do ok with test scores.

[dark_angel]

maybe it is somehow related to what we are doing here. It does seems as though a lot of people who are on this site are having the same problem. myself included

[kaydenn]

hmm maybe or it might be that people who have this problem and have so many extra hours of night to figure out things to do are more likely to stumble upon lucid dreaming and this site and others, i have looked into so many different things because i just have so many hours that i have to lol. For me though i dont really think its because of this kind of stuff though, this is the first time ive tried to get into LDing again for at least 6 months and never had any success or anything just kind of gave up a while ago. I think this problem makes it really hard for me to LD though, because i cannot fall asleep to when i want to..ever, unless im deadtired my body will force me to lay there for hours and i just end up giving up every night