What happens if one refuses to move their dream body during the vibration stage in a WILD?

So last night was one of the most frustrating WILD attempts thus far. It's been a while since I've been able to achieve this state. All my recent lucid dreams have come through DILD. From my previous experiences with WILD, it seemed like the longer one stayed in the vibration stage, the more lucid and vivid the dream would be when one eventually decided to move their dream body and start the dream. Is this true? I stuck with the vibrations last night for about 2 minutes before leaving my physical body. I was noticing that as the time passed the vibrations would get more and more intense. As I left my body, I was thrilled to finally be back in the lucid dream state, but things did not seem that vivid. So I got the silly notion to go back into my bed and try to raise the vibrations to an even higher frequency. However, as soon as my dream body laid on the bed, I immediately associated this with my normal waking state and was whisked back to normal consciousness in a matter of seconds.

I was so upset. I've been trying so hard to bring back these dreams, and having gone there and then consciously choosing to end it right as it begun was too much. I thought when my dream body laid on the bed I could maintain that awareness and bring back the vibrations. I now know this was a big mistake, I should of just continued to explore my dream landscape. I guess expectations have a lot to do with this, huh? So I laid there for about another hour, hoping with all my being that I'd be blessed with these vibrations again. After about a hour of waiting, I did feel them for about 1 second, but the excitement from my previous attempt had my heart racing like crazy and I was not able to maintain it whatsoever.

So my question is, do you guys think the time spent in the vibrational stage is of any meaning? Would the dream/experience change if one was able to maintain and continually intensify their vibrational state before actually choosing to consciously leave their bodies?

Well, if the intensity and duration was always constant, then perhaps we could somehow deduct if the duration you stay with it makes difference.

But I have read from some others, that their vibrations started out very strong, but after lots of experiences they are not that strong and they could be very weak, even barely noticable.

And what if you enter through images, not vibrations? Or you just start seeing your room? I have actually read, that someone exits already while in the 3D blackness. Which comes before vibrations.

LDs can be clear and vivid one day, and foggy the other day. Not sure what causes it, sorry.

I will just comment on what the goal is. To fall asleep, while aware. The vibrations and other crazy things tend to happen in nREM1 or around there. That means you are asleep, but still maintain some awareness of body. While all the weird stuff that happens in early sleep is interesting, it is very limited in visual components. Allow yourself to move past this stage, by relaxing into deeper sleep. You can start visualizing and even form basic dreams as soon as you get crazy effects, as you will have hit nREM1. I would not waste time paying attention to vibrations, just use them as a marker, that states 'your body has begun to sleep.' When such effects happen, deveolp your skill for transitioning.

As far as clarity. Unless you can stay aware long enough for a deeper sleep phase, you should just enjoy the unclear vauge dreams as they are. This is why we teach WBTB. In a standard WILD attempt, you must fall into true sleep, and staying aware even 10 minutes is an effort. You should therefore increase the chances that REM will take place in that window. So, sleep 5ish hours, get up briefly, then do WILD. Unless you time it with REM, the visuals will be vague. However, you can enjoy such a dream for awhile, and then if you are lucky you will get into deeper sleep states as you play in the more basic dreamscape.

Well I can't really speak much for the visuals, as I was only in that dream for about 30 seconds last night. Once I found I could move my dream body I had the silly notion that if I stuck with that vibrational stage longer, amazing things could have happened outside of just a normal LD. I'm sure the clarity would have developed if I just stayed in the dream. I'm just speaking from past experience. As the vibrations got more frequent and intense last night I began to see geometrical patterns, like 3d squares, develop behind my closed eye lids. I peaked open my eyes a couple times because I wanted to see the physical plane dissolve right before my eyes. And it did, somewhat. I was able to imprint my own impression on the physical plane with my own, clear 2d images.

I remember a couple months ago when I was having LDs all the time, I'd play around with how long to stay in the vibrational state. I found that little to no time at all is actually required, but often made things more interesting and lucid if I did!

Here I found some info, that may help explained, when do certain sensations occur.

Robot_Butler's post about theory when and why the falling, spinning sensation happens. http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ml#post1872367

Here is from mzzkc:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

NREM: stages before REM that always occur, even after a WBTB; common to experience effects of each stage during WILD; source of stories around audio and visual hallucinations, vibrations, etc.; dream should form somewhere here, as one passes into REM;

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http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ml#post1916268

So what I'm thinking, if we could know for sure, if you are in NREM, or already in REM, that would help to decide if you wanna enter LD then, or you wanna wait a few seconds longer. It may make a difference between NREM and REM dream.

Thanks man I appreciate it! What's the difference between NREM and REM dreams? I was thinking about this the other day, don't all dreams have to involve some type of REM? I thought our eyes always moved around while looking around the dreamscape. Or maybe I don't quite understand what constitutes REM sleep!

For me I've just noticed that once I become aware that I'm experiencing some form of the vibrational stage, I'm usually able to move my dream body from it's sleeping position and enter a LD. But a couple times I just laid there with the vibrations and tried to intensify them as much as possible. I started to see crazy CEVS like swirling colorful fractals and such that I've never seen before! It seemed totally different than just watching a normal dream form, almost like tapping into a part of our visual spectrum that is usually hidden from us. Makes me wonder how powerful one can actually make these vibrations, and what's waiting on the other side! :eek:

NREM dreams, all I know, is that they are more foggy, shorter, lack of nice colors, less visuals and such. That's interesting you ask about Rapid eye movement during NREM dreams. I haven't got the foggiest about that.

For me, if I have this right, first I get visuals and then vibrations. But vibrations do come in waves, so maybe I'm just not noticing the first wave, before visuals?

But yeah, first 20? of my WILDs and attempts were visuals. Usually I first got some small geometric shapes that repeated in my field of view. Like rows and columns of small triangles, for example. I didn't get these geometric shapes all the time. Which is a shame, because they are beautiful.

Then I would have some single images, like a cartoon character, an alarm clock, and such. Then HD photographs and then videos. That's how I entered my first WILDs. By flying over these videos and wishing myself on the ground in the video.

But lately, I'm not getting that many videos. Most of the time I realize I see my room and as you say, just get up or roll out from my body. Or I just realize I'm in a dream, without flying over a dreamscape. These are tricky to catch. They look just as if I was still awake. This usually happens after vibrations.

I'm thinking, and I may have this completely wrong, that vibrations start already in NREM, or just between NREM and REM. So if you get up from your body at first sign of vibrations, you may exit during NREM. Which is not so favorable for LDs. But OBEs are possible without being in REM. And a few times I had a feeling I see my actual room, not just my dream copy.

So maybe if you wait for the second, third wave of vibrations to come and go, by then you may be inside REM.

My very first vibrations were the strongest ones. Now I barely feel them. But sometimes I start to wake up from a dream and I feel quite strong vibrations. Maybe I need to be asleep deeper to have them stronger.

Once, I was pretty far gone, when I noticed vibrations and just by thinking stronger and my left knee, I felt them getting stronger in left knee, and as I moved my attention, they moved with it. Mind you, by then, I didn't really feel my physical body.

EDIT: I knew I was missing something:)
http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...lta-sleep.html Delta sleep=NREM

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Originally Posted by Caboose128

So my question is, do you guys think the time spent in the vibrational stage is of any meaning? Would the dream/experience change if one was able to maintain and continually intensify their vibrational state before actually choosing to consciously leave their bodies?

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I think the real change a person experiences relies on their mood and intentions, rather than time spent in those stages while aware. The right thought process can make or break a lucid dream attempt.

Listen to gab and Sivason...they are wise. :)