I still can't get it right

Last night, I woke up after about 5 hours of sleep and did a WBTB for about 7 minutes. I then layed back down and relaxed. I thought I was pretty alert and aware, and about 15 minutes in, I thought that a dream should be right around the corner. (I wasn't experiencing HI or anything, I was numb) Turns out, without me even knowing, I lost conciousness and regained it when my alarm rang in the morning.

I've been attempting WILDs seriously for around 6 months (total, it was patchy in 2014) now. I've successfully WILDed once (probably a year ago), and every time I attempt, I only reach the numbness stage. I always feel like if I try to make myself stay too aware that I'll end up not falling asleep and getting more frustrated in the process. But if I find that I give up being too aware, I fall asleep way too quickly.

Experienced WILDers: How were you able to find that threshold between waking and sleeping? It seems like I've been trying for so long.

I know it's only up to my experience and what works for me, but I would love to hear how you all did it.

Thanks!

Same problem with WILD.I'm really confused.When I focus on being aware(or anything else like when you focus on all senses in SSILD) I get punished and for the rest of night I'm not even able to fall...asleep?!Damn don't know what is it exactly.I mean I think that I'm asleep but with some level of awareness that makes me think I'm awake.But if it was the case I should have had some dreams which I was lucid in.While I don't remember any dream at all.Only 2-3 random images.
So if I'm awake how the hell 2 hours passed so fast!I was feeling the time passing but it was so fast for 2 hour!:|

hi
If original WILD is very tricky for you, there is an easier method to experience WILD. it is called crazyinsane WILD tutorial.

actually it is similar to DEILD and if you use multiple alarms, you will have a successful WILD among one on the attempt. it works for everyone....
the problem is that, it disturb the sleep cycle and also lots of alarm (every 30 minutes for example) is really on nerve. you maybe want to try it once a week when you want to have LD on demand.

nice dreams for you guys!

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

Same problem with WILD.I'm really confused.When I focus on being aware(or anything else like when you focus on all senses in SSILD) I get punished and for the rest of night I'm not even able to fall...asleep?!Damn don't know what is it exactly.I mean I think that I'm asleep but with some level of awareness that makes me think I'm awake.But if it was the case I should have had some dreams which I was lucid in.While I don't remember any dream at all.Only 2-3 random images.
So if I'm awake how the hell 2 hours passed so fast!I was feeling the time passing but it was so fast for 2 hour!:|

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Argh, I hate that. That used to happen to me as well, I could NEVER go to sleep. Now I got the opposite effect and fall asleep way too fast :'(

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Originally Posted by yaya

hi
If original WILD is very tricky for you, there is an easier method to experience WILD. it is called crazyinsane WILD tutorial.

actually it is similar to DEILD and if you use multiple alarms, you will have a successful WILD among one on the attempt. it works for everyone....
the problem is that, it disturb the sleep cycle and also lots of alarm (every 30 minutes for example) is really on nerve. you maybe want to try it once a week when you want to have LD on demand.

nice dreams for you guys!

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Thanks for the reply, yaya! I actually used to follow this tutorial a while back; but then I switched onto traditional WILDing. I'll probably attempt that technique once a week to see if I'll get lucid. :) Thanks!

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Argh, I hate that. That used to happen to me as well, I could NEVER go to sleep. Now I got the opposite effect and fall asleep way too fast :'(

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Well at least that way doesn't mess up with your sleep.The first times I tried WILD I used to fall asleep and it was were I experienced awareness in a dream.I don't know if it's called lucid also.I was aware but when I woke p I wondered why the hell I did that except doing awesome things like flying.However it was still awesome.

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hi
If original WILD is very tricky for you, there is an easier method to experience WILD. it is called crazyinsane WILD tutorial.

actually it is similar to DEILD and if you use multiple alarms, you will have a successful WILD among one on the attempt. it works for everyone....
the problem is that, it disturb the sleep cycle and also lots of alarm (every 30 minutes for example) is really on nerve. you maybe want to try it once a week when you want to have LD on demand.

nice dreams for you guys!

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I love the idea but haven't found any alarm with auto dismiss and also doesn't shock me by sudden.I tried Alarm Clock plus and Xtreme for my android but both of them force close!My stupid phone...

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

I love the idea but haven't found any alarm with auto dismiss and also doesn't shock me by sudden.I tried Alarm Clock plus and Xtreme for my android but both of them force close!My stupid phone...

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if you get shocked from alarm sound, then you become too awake and aware (beta brain wave) which is not ideal for LD...in fact your mind needs to stay in Theta brain wave (very calm and focused) after each time you wake up. maybe you need to lower the sound of the alarm.
also you can ask a partner to wake you up without much disturbance.

anyway, this method is great because despite traditional WILD (that you need to spend many time to relax your body and focus your mind), you are already relaxed and focused after each time you wake up and you will enter your dream less than some seconds (if you hit the theta brain wave).

Hey Sydney.I guess I just found something great.(However you may know or already heard about it.but I'll share it anyway.)
Yesterday I was using mantras so I wake up for DEILDs.It worked and I woke up but of course I couldn't stay still.I knew I had to work on it for sometime and not gonna be able to do that first time.I checked the time.It was 3:30.Then tried to fall asleep again.Repeated my mantra so I wake up again.But I didn't fall asleep at all so I wake for it again!Just like what happens to me when attempting WILD.I tried to fall asleep till 5:15 and gave up then.I played with my phone a bit then decided to read Stephen Laberge book.(in my phone also)After 10 minutes I felt tired and very sleepy and tried to fall asleep again.My mind started wandering and I kept noticing it at random times.Thought that this noticings gonna keep me awake.Then I started getting sucked into my bed and after that I was falling!I knew exactly what the hell is going on.I was transitioning!After a few seconds of falling I landed,dream started shaping and I was lucid!It's weird cuz it was 3rd person.It was like playing a 3rd person game while your keyboard is not working.I could just walk a little in that 3rd person dream.But it was still awesome.It changed my disastrous night to an awesome one.
I don't know was it the book made all of this happen or me being to tired.I hope it be the book so can do it again and even get better result.Whatever it was I didn't even intent to be aware of my thoughts,doing a WILD etc.It was an anchor that I didn't need to hold on it.It was holding me by itself.So weird and awesome...
I should also note that it all happened while before reading the book I was really mad,my mind kept rushing with aggressive thoughts,desperate of falling asleep etc.With all of these problems and also that I was questioning my ability to lucid dream it happened...And I hope it happens again.
OOPS!Guess I talked a lot.Sorry for that!:D

Yay! That's AWESOME! ^-^ (for the accidental WILD part, not the not-staying-still DEILD part)
Do you remember how long the lucid dream lasted?

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

Hey Sydney.I guess I just found something great.(However you may know or already heard about it.but I'll share it anyway.)
Yesterday I was using mantras so I wake up for DEILDs.It worked and I woke up but of course I couldn't stay still.I knew I had to work on it for sometime and not gonna be able to do that first time.

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I guess yeah, it takes practice to be able to wake up and not move (when I used to DEILD, it took me probably two weeks or so to fully be able to NOT move upon waking). But just keep trying!

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

I checked the time.It was 3:30.Then tried to fall asleep again.Repeated my mantra so I wake up again.But I didn't fall asleep at all so I wake for it again!Just like what happens to me when attempting WILD.I tried to fall asleep till 5:15 and gave up then.

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Argh that happens to me sometimes too! Don't you just hate it when you can't fall asleep? And then sometimes I just totally fall asleep way too early during my WILD attempt.

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

I played with my phone a bit then decided to read Stephen Laberge book.(in my phone also)After 10 minutes I felt tired and very sleepy and tried to fall asleep again.My mind started wandering and I kept noticing it at random times.Thought that this noticings gonna keep me awake.Then I started getting sucked into my bed and after that I was falling!I knew exactly what the hell is going on.I was transitioning!After a few seconds of falling I landed,dream started shaping and I was lucid!

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I guess the book had a sort of "lucid influence" on you! That's awesome!
I think WILD is one of those things that happens when you don't try to do attempt one, actually that is sort of how it works.
Oh my gosh that's so cool!!!

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

It's weird cuz it was 3rd person.It was like playing a 3rd person game while your keyboard is not working.I could just walk a little in that 3rd person dream.But it was still awesome.It changed my disastrous night to an awesome one.

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Even though it was short, I bet it was awesome seeing "yourself" in 3rd person, but doing the actions!

Yeah, try reading the book for a little bit again and see what happens! Just try not to be too exposed to your phone light though; sometimes it makes me not be able to fall asleep XD
Good luck on your next attempt! ^^

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Yay! That's AWESOME! ^-^ (for the accidental WILD part, not the not-staying-still DEILD part)
Do you remember how long the lucid dream lasted?

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I guess it was 15-20 seconds.And I also did a DEILD between that.When I woke up again I tried to get back again but moved my arm and woke up.

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I guess yeah, it takes practice to be able to wake up and not move (when I used to DEILD, it took me probably two weeks or so to fully be able to NOT move upon waking). But just keep trying!

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I knew it since I started it.Don't care how much it takes,it will finally happen.My problem is not falling asleep.It really destroys my motivation.But I'll be damned if I stop trying lucid dreaming for such a thing!:cool:

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Argh that happens to me sometimes too! Don't you just hate it when you can't fall asleep? And then sometimes I just totally fall asleep way too early during my WILD attempt.

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I HATE IT.I HATE IT.I HATE IT.:bang:

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I guess the book had a sort of "lucid influence" on you! That's awesome!

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Maybe.I guess what happened to me was like what flowofmysoul says about:flowofmysoul - Lucid Dreaming Tutorial/Method

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I think WILD is one of those things that happens when you don't try to do attempt one, actually that is sort of how it works.
Oh my gosh that's so cool!!!

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If it was this way it would be awesome:woohoo: .You just had to fall asleep without doing all those mantras,focusing on anchor etc.But maybe by reading,listening or doing anything that injects the idea of lucid dreaming and at the same time make you tired,then all that matters is falling asleep.

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Even though it was short, I bet it was awesome seeing "yourself" in 3rd person, but doing the actions!

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LOL.It was if you knew how to control yourself in a 3rd person angle!Imagine yourself in a 3rd person angle and try to move!It's very hard.I could only walk a little,while I didn't know how to control the direction!!

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Yeah, try reading the book for a little bit again and see what happens! Just try not to be too exposed to your phone light though; sometimes it makes me not be able to fall asleep XD

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Hell,I'll try it again and see what happens.It would be awesome if it works again.
I got a blue light filter app for it.I don't know if it really has any effect or not.But I guess it should be better than the original light of it.

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Good luck on your next attempt! ^^

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Thank you.:)

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Originally Posted by Sydney

I've been attempting WILDs seriously for around 6 months (total, it was patchy in 2014) now. I've successfully WILDed once (probably a year ago), and every time I attempt, I only reach the numbness stage. I always feel like if I try to make myself stay too aware that I'll end up not falling asleep and getting more frustrated in the process. But if I find that I give up being too aware, I fall asleep way too quickly.

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Hi,

I’m no experienced WILDer, in fact I haven’t successfully WILDed yet (a few DEILDs though! :lol:), but I have had the exact same problems as this.

Here's some advice which hopefully will help:

Firstly, being “too aware” sounds to me like you might putting a lot of your attention into the WILD transition and the physical sensations which can accompany it, rather than the dream itself. With WILD you only really need to be self-aware -- and the transition doesn’t matter at all. Thinking about things like the “numbness stage” or where the threshold is, is probably going to set you back a bit and would actually delay or halt the process -- making it feel like no progress is being made.

An example I used before is: if you were successfully maintaining lucidity in a DILD, and you suddenly began thinking about reality or your physical self, it would most likely cause you to wake up. WILD is absolutely no different -- it’s just a way of intentionally bringing your self-awareness into the dream from the waking state. Thinking about the WILD process will disturb these “reality” signals and slow the process. So in essence, the best approach would be to actually maintain lucidity from the second you begin the WILD. Nothing should really matter but the dream, just like in a DILD.

Concentrating on every milestone usually welcomes the frustrations of WILD as well (in my experience at least), like boredom, impatience etc. whereas if you only focus on the dream, (rather than sensations etc. which tend to keep you awake) the actual process of falling asleep is much faster, as these reality signals are not fired on in any way -- meaning nothing stands in the way of the natural falling asleep process. :sleepmeditate2:

Hope this helps! Good luck! :)

Based on my experience, especially from those lucid dream transitions I have had in the early mornings.

There is no balance, you either are in the dream or not.

The last time I got this fact suggested to me was this morning. I was in my bed and I realized that I suddenly could hear my thoughts in real time audio.
I was laying still and could manipulate the sound and I was waiting for the full transition to the dream but nothing happened.

But then... I woke up in my real bed and realized that I had been laying in a dream version of my room all along..

So when you lay in your bed trying to WILD just remember that if you feel strong strange sensations, DO NOT HESITATE, GET UP!

But here is my thoughts on what makes an effective WILD process:

Choose a posture that you aren't used to sleep in. I actually do a half-sitting posture and each time I fall asleep unconsciously I somehow wake up and then I resume my practise easily. The only thing that is stopping me is my own lack of will power in that moment to continue. But I am working on it!

Here is a comparison that might seem a little strange to you, but it might help you to understand an important concept I learned through clubbing.

In the same way as I might get uncomfortable in a club when talking to girls by lack of presence and freedom from outcome which makes girl think I am creepy because they can sense the needy outcome from me and they will test me to see if I really am confident guy or just acting and that makes it really difficult for me to enjoy the night and be in the moment.

The same thing happens with my mind as I try to meditate, if I have an outcome like "I am going to get a lucid dream", "I am going to get vibrations" etc then nothing is going to happen and at the same time my mind test me which makes it really difficult for me to enjoy the meditation and be in the moment.

However if I just have fun and enjoy the moment, do the right action for the ACTION itself I get the power back and a good RESULT is just a natural consequence.

If I just have fun, genuinely have FUN and talk with people without thinking "Oh GOD I want to get into your pants!!!", people feel the FREEDOM of my mind and they want to feel free as well and suddenly a girl reach out her arm and pull me in.

If I just enjoy the moment and genuinely RELAX and observe my thoughts without thinking "Oh GOD I want to TRANSITION!!!", you just feel the FREEDOM of your own mind and suddenly it pulls you in.

This mindset is really tricky to understand because if you want to achieve freedom from outcome, gues what then you have an outcome...

But the easiest way to understand it, is that you identify the RIGHT action and then enjoy the action for the action itself.

As is it said in the Bhagavad Gita "We are entitled to the action not the fruits" :meditate:

master mind!
i really enjoyed reading your first hand experiences!
you have pointed out many of my problems too!
thanks

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

LOL.It was if you knew how to control yourself in a 3rd person angle!Imagine yourself in a 3rd person angle and try to move!It's very hard.I could only walk a little,while I didn't know how to control the direction!!

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XD I can't even fathom what that would feel like!! ^^' I wonder if you could have made yourself turn around, if your body would turn around to face your "vision". Interesting XD

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Originally Posted by Eamo24

Hi,

I’m no experienced WILDer, in fact I haven’t successfully WILDed yet (a few DEILDs though! :lol:), but I have had the exact same problems as this.

Here's some advice which hopefully will help:

Firstly, being “too aware” sounds to me like you might putting a lot of your attention into the WILD transition and the physical sensations which can accompany it, rather than the dream itself. With WILD you only really need to be self-aware -- and the transition doesn’t matter at all. Thinking about things like the “numbness stage” or where the threshold is, is probably going to set you back a bit and would actually delay or halt the process -- making it feel like no progress is being made.

An example I used before is: if you were successfully maintaining lucidity in a DILD, and you suddenly began thinking about reality or your physical self, it would most likely cause you to wake up. WILD is absolutely no different -- it’s just a way of intentionally bringing your self-awareness into the dream from the waking state. Thinking about the WILD process will disturb these “reality” signals and slow the process. So in essence, the best approach would be to actually maintain lucidity from the second you begin the WILD. Nothing should really matter but the dream, just like in a DILD.

Concentrating on every milestone usually welcomes the frustrations of WILD as well (in my experience at least), like boredom, impatience etc. whereas if you only focus on the dream, (rather than sensations etc. which tend to keep you awake) the actual process of falling asleep is much faster, as these reality signals are not fired on in any way -- meaning nothing stands in the way of the natural falling asleep process. :sleepmeditate2:

Hope this helps! Good luck! :)

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Yes it helps tremendously! Thank you so much for the reply! ^^

Yeah, I've been told by most whom I ask for advice that I focus on my body's physical sensations, HI/HH, and non-dream-related things way too much... I guess I need to train myself to not focus on these things, and let the dreaming process come naturally. (Which is harder than it sounds :S, but I can do it!)

Thanks again, and good luck on your future WILDs! ^^

P.S.: Congratz on your DEILDs! ^^

P.P.S.: That's an awesome analogy! That will definitely help me remember how I should approach the WILD process! Thanks!

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Originally Posted by MasterMind

Based on my experience, especially from those lucid dream transitions I have had in the early mornings.

There is no balance, you either are in the dream or not.

The last time I got this fact suggested to me was this morning. I was in my bed and I realized that I suddenly could hear my thoughts in real time audio.
I was laying still and could manipulate the sound and I was waiting for the full transition to the dream but nothing happened.

But then... I woke up in my real bed and realized that I had been laying in a dream version of my room all along..

So when you lay in your bed trying to WILD just remember that if you feel strong strange sensations, DO NOT HESITATE, GET UP!

But here is my thoughts on what makes an effective WILD process:

Choose a posture that you aren't used to sleep in. I actually do a half-sitting posture and each time I fall asleep unconsciously I somehow wake up and then I resume my practise easily. The only thing that is stopping me is my own lack of will power in that moment to continue. But I am working on it!

Here is a comparison that might seem a little strange to you, but it might help you to understand an important concept I learned through clubbing.

In the same way as I might get uncomfortable in a club when talking to girls by lack of presence and freedom from outcome which makes girl think I am creepy because they can sense the needy outcome from me and they will test me to see if I really am confident guy or just acting and that makes it really difficult for me to enjoy the night and be in the moment.

The same thing happens with my mind as I try to meditate, if I have an outcome like "I am going to get a lucid dream", "I am going to get vibrations" etc then nothing is going to happen and at the same time my mind test me which makes it really difficult for me to enjoy the meditation and be in the moment.

However if I just have fun and enjoy the moment, do the right action for the ACTION itself I get the power back and a good RESULT is just a natural consequence.

If I just have fun, genuinely have FUN and talk with people without thinking "Oh GOD I want to get into your pants!!!", people feel the FREEDOM of my mind and they want to feel free as well and suddenly a girl reach out her arm and pull me in.

If I just enjoy the moment and genuinely RELAX and observe my thoughts without thinking "Oh GOD I want to TRANSITION!!!", you just feel the FREEDOM of your own mind and suddenly it pulls you in.

This mindset is really tricky to understand because if you want to achieve freedom from outcome, gues what then you have an outcome...

But the easiest way to understand it, is that you identify the RIGHT action and then enjoy the action for the action itself.

As is it said in the Bhagavad Gita "We are entitled to the action not the fruits" :meditate:

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Thanks for the reply MasterMind!

I agree with yaya, I enjoyed reading your experiences ^^

That principle, like you said, can be used not only in dreaming, but also in life. Gonna go off topic a bit XD. In RL I struggle with social anxiety sometimes. Guys make me nervous (hate to admit it, but yeah), and also meeting other people makes me nervous as well. I always think about the end result, especially around a cute guy/crush, "Okay, I'm going to talk to him and maybe he'll be interested in me/show me attention." That is what I LITERALLY think. It's sad, but true. (I hope I'm not the only one XD) By just thinking that, it makes me even more nervous because I'm not for sure which outcome will happen. (Either he'll think I'm totally awkward or the otherwise) So I don't focus on the "fun" or "interest" of the conversation. But like you said that principle rings true and is very helpful in both dreaming and life.

Okay back on topic :D (sorry)

Thanks so much for the help!!!
I wish you the best of luck in your future transitions!

P.S.: That transitioning experience sounds so cool!

I'm so relieved that girls liked my post. Because the principles are actualy inspired from a man that teach men to bed girls, so he is not very adored by feminists. You might have heard of it, Real Social Dynamics. You can take a look at his videos to get a sense of the freedom I talk about, but keep in mind he is a man and is teaching men so it's very macho and manly. But I assure you what he teach are UNIVERSAL principles that applies to everyone (and everything), which made me happy to see that you girls could resonate with it as well!

Here he talks about process orientation or enjoying the action for the action itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1tiiv4Wg7M

The funny thing is that by going out and approaching my fears in social interactions (especially with girls) I have realized that boys and girls ARE experiencing the same kind of insecurities, but then they need to blame something so they blame the other sexes. o. O

Both boys and girls ARE insecure about their looks, money and status! Even the hot ones..

However the solution to get both boys and girls or as it actually should be expressed INDIVIDUALS to become interested in you, well then you have to be SELF-RELIANT and secure. Ok little boy or little girl so you are insecure about your looks? Well have you EVER tried to approach someone and talked with them and perhaps done a little flirting? "Yea a few times... and it didn't WORK!" Really... a few times? What if I told you that flirting has nothing to do with your personality (well to some extent) but it is just like learning to lucid dream or to play a guitar, it's a skill! You can't get the hang of it the first time. It's not that you learn to control another person, you learn to control your own mind.

Not being in control feels bad and what do you do then?

You blame your looks, you blame your techniques, you blame the other sexes, you blame SOMETHING.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vg4uyYwEk

How do you expect something or someone to get attracted to you when you are not BEING you?!!

Instead you are some inscure needy version of yourself that WANTS stuff. Focus on the giving and the appreciation!

A man said to the master, “I want Happiness.”
The master said, first remove “I”, that’s ego,
then remove “want”, that’s desire.
See now you are left with only Happiness.

You do this by removing the EGO from the practise and then by focusing on enjoying the action itself instead of desiring a result.

SEX is TABOO and LUCID DREAMING is TABOO for most people because A. they either believe it is imposssible or B. Instead of admitting that they also can do it, they rationalize and blame and judge other things or people.

Sex is for me like holding someones hand, a giving of love and appreciation, although it's alot more fun. But for some of my guy friends they are either amazed by the fact that I can talk to a stranger HAVE FUN and end up having sex with her, and to some people I am a douchebag. And girls who do the same are simply judged as sl*ts.. Which is why a douchebags and a s*ut are a perfect fit. :) But don't get me wrong there are people out there not respecting themselves or their bodies but my point here is that it is not carved in stone. You are not a douchebag or a sl*t for enjoying sex (as long as you are honest and clear with your intentions), but you sure as hel* will be called one so you might as well just own the nickname.

To summarize the path to self-reliance and attraction: Manage your looks the best you can then let it go, (Work out) - Read books about positivity and success (books) -> Let go of your stupid hindering thoughts that doesn't help you anyway (Meditate) -> APPROACH PEOPLE!

Lucid dreaming is the same A. people believe it is impossible or B. Instead of admitting that they also can do it, they rationalize and blame and judge other things or people.

The WILD process for me now is the act of loving myself and showing appreciation to the moment. Most people judge themselves during this process because they can't simply let go of their ego and this affect them their whole life. The definition of being happy is as the pattern that I am trying to define: being happy with the person that you are and becoming, when you can do this truely the WILD process is not even about the lucid dreaming anymore.

Last night I tried this out by just letting go of everything, I was even sitting in a half lotus posture. And I meditated for 1 hour! New personal record! :D

I had set 1 hour as my goal but approached the practise in a freedom from outcome mind so when the alarm rang I fell asleep normally.

I hope my comparisons are not too off topic, I am simply trying to use other examples to make it easier for people to relate and also show that this mindset can be used for anything.

Cool stuff MasterMind.Thanks.

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How do you expect something or someone to get attracted to you when you are not BEING you?!!

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I seriously missed it.BEING ME!Till the age 12 I was ME.Now that I lost it I know what an awesome thing it was...
Freedom,Confidence,Happiness and even more...But then I started noticing my imperfections.I started comparing myself to others,feeling incomplete etc.As the time passed I unconsciously kept doing it.I got away and away from ME.Now after 5 years,I realize what the hell I just did to myself.Now that I want to fix it,it just seems impossible.This NOT BEING ME has turned to a habit and don't know how to get rid of it.I mean I don't have any idea who I am so try to be that...Anyway enough off topic.

Well having the right mindset is cool and necessary for WILD.But being free of what prevents you from having a successful WILD(for me is usually expectation,which not only ruins my attempt but also I get punished but not falling asleep the whole night) is not that easy.Specially if you're used to the wrong one.In my most successful attempts I was just focusing on my breath and nothing else.But don't know what the hell happened that made me expect whenever I try and it lead to not falling asleep and I guess that subconsciously I got to the point that by trying WILD or even thinking about that upon waking up during night I expect to not fall asleep.I should find a way to fix it...

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This mindset is really tricky to understand because if you want to achieve freedom from outcome, gues what then you have an outcome..

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Cool,but by trying to achieve freedom from it,just makes me think about it more and I guess it makes it worse for me(I know I'm doing it wrong somehow)

master mind! WOW....your words are true about everything that has any relation with our EGO...
EGO prevent us achieving everything....in WILD case, it consumes our energy to distract our mind to think about non-senses in order to not allow us to merge into silence (where our inner-self which is true self, exist) because once the inner-self appears, the EGO will die...as EGO is afraid to die, it make us busy and busy....that's why it is hard to meditate....

in social communication, we are afraid to communicate well, because we are afraid our EGO breaks because of our in-sufficiency, so we always try to keep distance from those who we think might break our EGO...

thanks again for reflecting these valuable things in a tangible manner!

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

Cool stuff MasterMind.Thanks.

I seriously missed it.BEING ME!Till the age 12 I was ME.Now that I lost it I know what an awesome thing it was...
Freedom,Confidence,Happiness and even more...But then I started noticing my imperfections.I started comparing myself to others,feeling incomplete etc.As the time passed I unconsciously kept doing it.I got away and away from ME.Now after 5 years,I realize what the hell I just did to myself.Now that I want to fix it,it just seems impossible.This NOT BEING ME has turned to a habit and don't know how to get rid of it.I mean I don't have any idea who I am so try to be that...Anyway enough off topic.

Well having the right mindset is cool and necessary for WILD.But being free of what prevents you from having a successful WILD(for me is usually expectation,which not only ruins my attempt but also I get punished but not falling asleep the whole night) is not that easy.Specially if you're used to the wrong one.In my most successful attempts I was just focusing on my breath and nothing else.But don't know what the hell happened that made me expect whenever I try and it lead to not falling asleep and I guess that subconsciously I got to the point that by trying WILD or even thinking about that upon waking up during night I expect to not fall asleep.I should find a way to fix it...

Cool,but by trying to achieve freedom from it,just makes me think about it more and I guess it makes it worse for me(I know I'm doing it wrong somehow)

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It's funny how you mention all the same problems that used to bother me. Tyler (in the video) even say that the annoying thing about knowing about freedom from outcome, is that most guys that he teach then start to use that as an excuse. Walking around the club doing nothing because "they are not free from the outcome yet".
And about falling asleep, well there are ONLY two possible scenarios that can happen and the first one is that you fall asleep unconsciously and the second one is that you don't. Just like when you flirt, a person will either not want to talk to you (which is their free choice) or they will talk to you.

The problem again is that we try to control the outcome! "Oh yeah I am so cool I know my little technique of not caring about the outcome" and then when you get rejected, fall asleep or can't fall asleep and complain, well then you ARE caring about the outcome.

Examples:

Getting Rejected: Buhuu poor me, a random girl who doesn't know me threatened my LADIES MAN EGO.
Falling Asleep: Buhuu poor me, I fell asleep during my WILD practise. (Just like 99.99999% of the rest of the population)
Not falling asleep: Buhuu poor me I have trouble falling asleep. (Just like 99.999999% of the rest of the population)

This complaining victim mindset can be found EVERYWHERE.

Buhuu I don't own a GUCCI bag that costs a fortune. Buuhuuuu I am depressed. Buhuuu I don't get result in the gym. Buhuuu BUUUHUU BUHHUUU!!!

I am not trying to make fun of people complaining or that have it bad I am simply showing you that which Tyler in Fight Club so adequately put it:

YOU ARE NOT A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE! YOU ARE NOT HOW MUCH MONEY YOU ARE MAKING. YOU ARE NOT THE CAR YOU DRIVE. YOU ARE NOT THE CONTENTS OF YOUR WALLET. YOU ARE NOT YOUR F*CKING KHAKIS!

And also but not least because most people try to be.. You are NOT your problems!

But to give you a clear solution to all of your problems:

Victims - Identify themselves with their problems and focus on what's outside of their control (The Problem itself) RESISTANCE
Winners - Accept that the world is SH*T and focus on what's within their control (The Action itself) ACCEPTANCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az3u-YcBndE

So again so how do you get rid of the three problems mentioned above?

YOU DON'T!

You simply accept them, perhaps even go torwards them willingly, and then focus on what's within your control. This is the main idea, but what I do is:

Getting Rejected: Expect rejection, funnily enough the best night and the coolest girls I have ever met happened after I just honestly and geuinely told myself "Tonight I am going to get rejected on purpose and just have fun!". Oddly enough this night girls rejected me less because they thought I was fun.

Falling Asleep: Expect this, I am usually doing my attempts on my bedtime (Read my DJ) and well the times I do everything in my power to stay awake, I fall asleep almost instantly. However the nights I genuinely don't care I fall asleep and somehow wake up again and resume my practise.

Not falling asleep: This was something that I noticed when I had meditated and then decided to give up and go back to sleep only to realize, Oh da*n I can't!
So what I did at first was to resist this fact by feeling bad and having a horrible night. But then I accepted it and even used it to my advantage and listened to guided meditations where my problem usually is that I fall asleep too fast. Ironically enough when I did this I fell asleep in a blink. Now I take even more responsability and say "Ok I am resisting the moment, what is beatiful about this moment? What is positive about what's right NOW?" and then I find the joy and the bliss again, but I am still practising this.

You can probably see how the meditation mindset can be a powerful tool for all aspects of life. :meditate:

So whenever you have a problem, ask yourself: Am I resisting and wishing that reality was different? And if so how do I accept this and move on?

Also about the not knowing who you are. I can relate to that too.

I used to be a whiny negative overthinking weirdo. And I still have some insecurities like I don't watch many movies or am very wellread on music groups, videogames or gossip etc. I do however like philosophy, lucid dreaming, meditation and weird sh*t that most people have no idea about. So I guess that I'm just an overthinking weirdo.. xD

The thing is.. Nobody knows who they are, the only important thing is that you are happy with who you are.

So move with the everchanging world, because if you are not moving with it, you are probably being left behind.

Watch some motivational video to get the right thinking going: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njc5w1WRzYw

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Originally Posted by yaya

master mind! WOW....your words are true about everything that has any relation with our EGO...
EGO prevent us achieving everything....in WILD case, it consumes our energy to distract our mind to think about non-senses in order to not allow us to merge into silence (where our inner-self which is true self, exist) because once the inner-self appears, the EGO will die...as EGO is afraid to die, it make us busy and busy....that's why it is hard to meditate....

in social communication, we are afraid to communicate well, because we are afraid our EGO breaks because of our in-sufficiency, so we always try to keep distance from those who we think might break our EGO...

thanks again for reflecting these valuable things in a tangible manner!

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Haha I am glad you enjoyed it yaya! :D

There is no numbness stage, that's just a result of lying still for a long time, it isn't progress. I know it's annoying to keep hearing this, but the only thing you should be thinking about is you anchor. If your timing is right then there will always be a dream to enter. Example: I attempted this morning and lay for I don't know how long, not feeling sleepy thinking "there's no way this is going down", rolled over and abruptly fell asleep without awareness... and then had a lucid dream.

The lesson: you can't second guess your body. Until you've got the WILD mileage under your belt you won't know what to look for, so the only thing to do is do one thing based on the fundamentals and then keep doing it until you succeed.

You shouldn't be thinking "oh I got to numbness, that's a minor success at least", looking for milestones is what is keeping you from WILDing. Practice meditation, learn to observe an object and return to it everytime you are distracted, it's the same as WILD.

DUDE!Your posts are awesome and full of awesome stuff to learn.Thank You!
It's great that you made your way and got rid of those problems(which are bothering me now).I hope I make my way too.:)
But I'm a little bit confused.As you said this mindset of not caring about the outcome helps in any situation.Is it the same case in DILDs?If yes then by using the autosuggestion and MILDing we are caring about the outcome.Visualizing it,wanting it bad etc...So isn't it ruining the chance for becoming lucid?
I started doing RCs again.I hope I keep up with it this time.I tried it 2-3 times but every time in less than a week I left it.It really s*cks doing the same thing over and over without getting result.I know I should give it time and try it more than a week or even a month.But after a while it gets too boring and I leave it so.
Anyway after doing RC I visualize myself doing it in dream and repeat some mantra.But now I wonder should I do what I do already or just do the RC and simply enjoy doing it?

Yeah Meditation mindset really helps.It has dozen of good effects.So in meditation I should just find a comfortable position and let go of all my thoughts by focusing on something like my breathing?

LOL.In fact it's one of the things I love about myself is exactly this:Doing things that people don't have any idea about or don't give a shit about!

And Thank you very much for the advice and videos.;)

Haha dude thank you so much for asking questions. I have so many ideas and concepts internalised in my subconscious but it's only through questions that I can draw them out. :) I am glad that you enjoy them, I simply just enjoy writing and discussing these topics as you might see.

I will do my absolute best to try to make this post short and concise, we'll see how that goes..

To make it SUPER clear I will put my advice in step by step instructions.

Yes this mindset can be applied to anything:

1. Choose a lane in which this mindset will be applied. (Lucid dreaming, socialising, working out etc.)
2. Identify the right action or actions which will bring you to your desired goal. (Identifying action and outcome)
3. Find a way to ENJOY the action so much that you forget about the outcome.
4. Stay positive and never complain.

I for example as you can see in my Dream Journal REALLY enjoy experimenting, analyzing and learning from my lucid dreaming practise and are happy with the small things, so I do get my results. But I really just enjoy doing it! This way I stay in my practise and get my small (and big) successes as I go along.
In contrast to the people that quit who just think "Ah... I didn't got a lucid dream this night either...." I instead think "Oboy what can I learn from this night?".

It's the same for my nights out, people with big LADIES MAN egos might think "OK... I might as well stop going out I didn't got laid this night either.." and I think "Haha I am the dorkiest guy in the world and oh my GOD I did such a ballsy approach, who would had the balls to do that?" and my EMOTIONS ELEVATE!

A quote that I really like is "The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Do you see how enjoying the action and enjoying the process is key for success?

I do the same for WILD, always looking on WHAT's POSSIBLE and find ways to make it fun!

While some people think (and I used to as well): "Oh.. I always fall asleep during WILD, I might as well give up, that technique doesn't work.."

I think: "Oh wow I always falll asleep during WILD, what if I try a different posture? What happens then?" and suddenly I discover that the monks actually have pondered the same questions hundreds of years ago! And my motivation and learning continues!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y6Nh00ul_k ;)

So follow the steps above, but regarding on what you should do, I am not capable of answering because I do not know what amuses you. Only you know that. :content:

Oh and also, I just wrote a guide on meditation (inspired by this thread): http://www.dreamviews.com/meditation...appy-free.html

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Originally Posted by Sydney

Last night, I woke up after about 5 hours of sleep and did a WBTB for about 7 minutes. I then layed back down and relaxed. I thought I was pretty alert and aware, and about 15 minutes in, I thought that a dream should be right around the corner. (I wasn't experiencing HI or anything, I was numb) Turns out, without me even knowing, I lost conciousness and regained it when my alarm rang in the morning.

I've been attempting WILDs seriously for around 6 months (total, it was patchy in 2014) now. I've successfully WILDed once (probably a year ago), and every time I attempt, I only reach the numbness stage. I always feel like if I try to make myself stay too aware that I'll end up not falling asleep and getting more frustrated in the process. But if I find that I give up being too aware, I fall asleep way too quickly.

Experienced WILDers: How were you able to find that threshold between waking and sleeping? It seems like I've been trying for so long.

I know it's only up to my experience and what works for me, but I would love to hear how you all did it.

Thanks!

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Your WBTB is too short. Try staying awake for a good 20-30 minutes next time. If you're doing it right, you should feel very slightly groggy, and it should feel (at first) like you're not going to get back to sleep. Of course, you still do.

@MasterMind: Goodness, everything you've talked about is super inspiring! Thanks so much!

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Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

There is no numbness stage, that's just a result of lying still for a long time, it isn't progress. I know it's annoying to keep hearing this, but the only thing you should be thinking about is you anchor. If your timing is right then there will always be a dream to enter. Example: I attempted this morning and lay for I don't know how long, not feeling sleepy thinking "there's no way this is going down", rolled over and abruptly fell asleep without awareness... and then had a lucid dream.

The lesson: you can't second guess your body. Until you've got the WILD mileage under your belt you won't know what to look for, so the only thing to do is do one thing based on the fundamentals and then keep doing it until you succeed.

You shouldn't be thinking "oh I got to numbness, that's a minor success at least", looking for milestones is what is keeping you from WILDing. Practice meditation, learn to observe an object and return to it everytime you are distracted, it's the same as WILD.

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Thank you for replying, Ctharlhie.
Yeah I've been staying up for 20 minutes the past couple nights now, and so far it has worked pretty well.
And yes, I now believe milestones can be setbacks.. and I will try not to focus on them! Just my anchor. ;)

I'm struggling with this also. There is like a fine gap of how much emphasis you should put on your transition during your attempt. Too little and you fall asleep, which is the problem i'm having now, I will fall asleep and instantly have a non-lucid dream. Too much and you don't actually fall asleep. Which was the problem I had initially.

Quote:

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If your timing is right then there will always be a dream to enter.

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This statement must be said out loud! I had to realize that time is truly everything. I just can't lay there expect a dream to materialize and attempt to WILD it isn't there. I mean...I have tried to visualize, but this just doesn't work for me. I have to be in the 'dream state' for something to happen.

Great that my questions help you draw out those awesome information and Thanks for sharing them,dude!;)

It's an awesome mindset indeed.You enjoy the whole process and at the same time get great results.GREAT!

Last night after I woke up I said alright let's try WILD with the mindset you mentioned.I started focusing on my breath and then found out:not-being able to fall asleep started.I ignored it and just tried to don't care a shit about it.But after sometime I gave up on it and started complaining.I realized I'm making it worse and started to ignoring and don't caring about it.This process kept up for sometime,while I didn't got the sleep with the desired quality but it was better than the previous nights.But you know what?Screw that I didn't got a good quality sleep.Why?Cuz I just got an awesome lucid dream(And also thought about doing an RC in another dream.but I got distracted anyway)!I wrote it for first time in DJ(I guess I wrote it very bad anyway.Bad writing and story telling skills perhaps...)
But I think I was on an autopilot mode(I guess by reading it you realize that)
The last time when I experienced being aware of that I'm dreaming I did things which I wondered why,upon waking up!
Here's what last time happened:I realized I'm dreaming while I was opening a door in a dark environment.Then I started reciting "I am lucid" over and over.My main language is not English but I was saying it in English without thinking about it!After opening the door I saw my mother sleeping at the corner of a big giant living room.I turned around.There was stairs leading to a beautiful garden.It was dark so I said "morning" (Yeah,again in English without thinking!) and weather started getting lighter.While it was cool and making me feel Powerful still I did it without thinking about it!Anyway after going up the stairs and exiting the garden I said "Horse".Then one appeared.again without thinking!Yeah I like horses and maybe try riding em in my dreams.But I was more interested in flying why the hell did I call a horse without thinking about it?!I wonder if it's how are the first lucid dreams are or...I don't know what else it can be...

Nice Ramin2097!

Yea this is what I have noticed as well!

By WILD:ing or meditating as your way of falling asleep, you will have trouble falling asleep, but as a result of this you will somehow become more aware of your dreams. You see how the meditation can be used for both DILD and WILD? There are many possible reasons for why but I will not go through those here.

And about your strange behavior in your lucid dream. Do not worry, you just experienced your subconscious directly for the first time. Your subconscious is weird, non-logical and therefore most of the time, make no sense at all.

Just continue to explore you are well on your way. :D

Just call me Ramin.That 2097 is there cuz someone has already used "Ramin" for his username.

Yea,exactly.in fact the lucid dream I had 3 nights ago and the one I summoned a horse happened after I attempted WILD and fell asleep unconsciously.

Cool!I'm so motivated,and thanks to you,with that mindset now I can attempt WILD better and also enjoy doing RCs.Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

Great that my questions help you draw out those awesome information and Thanks for sharing them,dude!;)

It's an awesome mindset indeed.You enjoy the whole process and at the same time get great results.GREAT!

Last night after I woke up I said alright let's try WILD with the mindset you mentioned.I started focusing on my breath and then found out:not-being able to fall asleep started.I ignored it and just tried to don't care a shit about it.But after sometime I gave up on it and started complaining.I realized I'm making it worse and started to ignoring and don't caring about it.This process kept up for sometime,while I didn't got the sleep with the desired quality but it was better than the previous nights.But you know what?Screw that I didn't got a good quality sleep.Why?Cuz I just got an awesome lucid dream(And also thought about doing an RC in another dream.but I got distracted anyway)!I wrote it for first time in DJ(I guess I wrote it very bad anyway.Bad writing and story telling skills perhaps...)
But I think I was on an autopilot mode(I guess by reading it you realize that)
The last time when I experienced being aware of that I'm dreaming I did things which I wondered why,upon waking up!
Here's what last time happened:I realized I'm dreaming while I was opening a door in a dark environment.Then I started reciting "I am lucid" over and over.My main language is not English but I was saying it in English without thinking about it!After opening the door I saw my mother sleeping at the corner of a big giant living room.I turned around.There was stairs leading to a beautiful garden.It was dark so I said "morning" (Yeah,again in English without thinking!) and weather started getting lighter.While it was cool and making me feel Powerful still I did it without thinking about it!Anyway after going up the stairs and exiting the garden I said "Horse".Then one appeared.again without thinking!Yeah I like horses and maybe try riding em in my dreams.But I was more interested in flying why the hell did I call a horse without thinking about it?!I wonder if it's how are the first lucid dreams are or...I don't know what else it can be...

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Ramin that's awesome!! I actually had an LD this morning as well! ^^ (It's in my online DJ here if you wanna read it)
Actually, we both got our LDs the same way, by becoming aware after our WILD attempts didn't succeed. ^^

Good luck in future attempts! ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sydney

Ramin that's awesome!! I actually had an LD this morning as well! ...Actually, we both got our LDs the same way, by becoming aware after our WILD attempts didn't succeed.

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But doesn't that mean that your WILD attempts did succeed, just not the way you planned? The goal is the LD, after all, and not the method of getting there, right?

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Originally Posted by Sageous

But doesn't that mean that your WILD attempts did succeed, just not the way you planned? The goal is the LD, after all, and not the method of getting there, right?

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Ah, that's true. :)

Quote:

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Ramin that's awesome!! I actually had an LD this morning as well! ^^ (It's in my online DJ here if you wanna read it)
Actually, we both got our LDs the same way, by becoming aware after our WILD attempts didn't succeed. ^^

Good luck in future attempts! ^^

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That's Great!Congrats.Cool LD by the way.;)
WILD makes you more aware of next dreams.Last night I attempted WILD (Thanks God finally it didn't prevent me of falling asleep).I fell asleep unconsciously but I remember a few times I woke up after my dream,while staying still and keeping my eyes closed.I could easily attempt DEILDs.But in that half sleepy and low awareness state,I didn't think about it at all.

You too Sydney!;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ramin2097

That's Great!Congrats.Cool LD by the way.;)
WILD makes you more aware of next dreams.Last night I attempted WILD (Thanks God finally it didn't prevent me of falling asleep).I fell asleep unconsciously but I remember a few times I woke up after my dream,while staying still and keeping my eyes closed.I could easily attempt DEILDs.But in that half sleepy and low awareness state,I didn't think about it at all.

You too Sydney!;)

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Awesome! I bet with practice at that, you'll be chaining DEILDs in no time!! :D
That seems to happen to me, too - I wake up after my WILD attempt, completely still, and numb. But I quickly fall back to sleep because I wasn't very aware ^^'