My WILD Questions.

Please answer with detail because i take things literally. Other questions will be added if i do encounter a problem.
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The Questions

1- How many hours do i need for WBTB? Solution clear, i'm narrowing it down.

2- How do i perform the technique if i'm too awake/too sleepy for it? Walk around if sleepy, meditate if too awake.

3- Does focus on breath count as an anchor? Experimenting to see for myself, if this keeps me awake or not.

4- After laying in relaxation for minutes. What is supposed to actually happen? The body will fall asleep, which is by either direct entry into a dream, or through the creation of one.

1) More is better if you can get back to sleep. Try 6 at first.

2) Too sleepy, then get out of bed and move around for a few minutes first. Too awake: Learn relaxation skills, try an earlier WBTB, take 25 mg diphenhydramine if needed (antihistamine sold for sleep and allergy) as a last resort (it is harmless at this mild dose)

3) An anchor must keep your mind from going unconscious, with out stimulating you. Focus on breath can be counter productive at some point, as it is of the waking body. It is a great way to get relaxed initially. Try saying something in your mind over and over timed roughly with your breath, but do not focus on the breath itself. Or you can count timed roughly on your breath, again with out focusing on it. Do not worry about keeping track. If you mess up just start over. If you get to say 50 just start over.

4) You are trying to trick the body into thinking the mind is asleep. Done right the body will go to sleep, but you will maintain awareness. After the body is aslep, you can try visualizing a dream scene or just passively observe the weird sensations of being asleep but aware. With luck a dream will form and you can start a lucid dream.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by sivason

1) More is better if you can get back to sleep. Try 6 at first.

2) Too sleepy, then get out of bed and move around for a few minutes first. Too awake: Learn relaxation skills, try an earlier WBTB, take 25 mg diphenhydramine if needed (antihistamine sold for sleep and allergy) as a last resort (it is harmless at this mild dose)

3) An anchor must keep your mind from going unconscious, with out stimulating you. Focus on breath can be counter productive at some point, as it is of the waking body. It is a great way to get relaxed initially. Try saying something in your mind over and over timed roughly with your breath, but do not focus on the breath itself. Or you can count timed roughly on your breath, again with out focusing on it. Do not worry about keeping track. If you mess up just start over. If you get to say 50 just start over.

4) You are trying to trick the body into thinking the mind is asleep. Done right the body will go to sleep, but you will maintain awareness. After the body is aslep, you can try visualizing a dream scene or just passively observe the weird sensations of being asleep but aware. With luck a dream will form and you can start a lucid dream.

Good luck!

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Thanks for replying.
I'm going to follow your advice on this matter. Am i considered safe for a lucid dream if i try WILDing after 4.5 hours of sleeping? Because i feel that's the spot.

4.5 hours works, but the later in the sleep cycle, the better, as long as you can still sleep.

My own experience is that it works best for me after 7 hours sleep.

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

3- Does relaxing and focusing on breath count as an anchor? [/COLOR]Distracting anchor, i will use counting.

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I wouldn't recommend counting. It might work by accident, but it can't possibly work by design. You can't fall asleep while counting (despite the urban legend about counting sheep).

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

4- After laying in relaxation for minutes. What is supposed to actually happen?

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Entering a dream directly, or creating one myself after the body falls asleep.

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You're supposed to fall asleep, as you normally do. But if you can maintain a very small amount of awareness, then you will be lucid.

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Originally Posted by cmind

I wouldn't recommend counting. It might work by accident, but it can't possibly work by design. You can't fall asleep while counting (despite the urban legend about counting sheep).



You're supposed to fall asleep, as you normally do. But if you can maintain a very small amount of awareness, then you will be lucid.

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Counting could keep some awake, but the way it is used is to barely keep the mind aware while allowing the body to sleep. It is a fine line. The counting must be subtle enough to not keep your mind engaged, but present enough to maintain small awareness.

I don't know, I just imagine that people start counting, they get bored, stop counting, then fall asleep. And since they had spent all that time setting their intention, by counting but not because of the counting per se, they get lucid. I see it as more of an indirect, intention-setting technique. You could just as easily sing dixie and have it work if someone told you that singing dixie made you WILD.

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Originally Posted by cmind

I don't know, I just imagine that people start counting, they get bored, stop counting, then fall asleep. And since they had spent all that time setting their intention, by counting but not because of the counting per se, they get lucid. I see it as more of an indirect, intention-setting technique. You could just as easily sing dixie and have it work if someone told you that singing dixie made you WILD.

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That is the exact point, even if you do your WILD different. I mean, yes, you could sing 'Dixie' and have the exact same effect. It is supposed to be repetitive and boring. It is NOT supposed to engage the mind. It has little to do with intention. It is supposed to simply be there droning in the background as proof your mind still has some awareness. Not much, just enough to stay partly aware. If you realize you have stopped "singing Dixie/counting" you need to wake your mind just a touch and keep going, so it warns you of impending unconsciousness. If someone paid a lot of attention to the counting it would not work.

I do not know what to say about "getting bored, and stop counting" as I am all about mental discipline and inducing a trance like state of sleeping body and aware mind. If someone stops attempting to use their anchor from boredom, that is a weakness of their discipline, not a weakness of the technique. However, we all know ourselves best. If boredom is a big hurtle, than this style of WILD is probably not for you.

So, I am curious CMIND, what do you do in your WILD attempts? Are you using any kind of anchor? What are you doing to help you bring some awareness into sleep? There are so many ways to get to the same place.

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Originally Posted by cmind

You can't fall asleep while counting (despite the urban legend about counting sheep).

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That does not make sense to me. I thought the point was to have the body fall asleep, while the mind stays awake. My body can certainly fall asleep while I am counting, if I am good at WILD. Honestly.

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Originally Posted by sivason

That is the exact point, even if you do your WILD different. I mean, yes, you could sing 'Dixie' and have the exact same effect. It is supposed to be repetitive and boring. It is NOT supposed to engage the mind. It has little to do with intention. It is supposed to simply be there droning in the background as proof your mind still has some awareness. Not much, just enough to stay partly aware. If you realize you have stopped "singing Dixie/counting" you need to wake your mind just a touch and keep going, so it warns you of impending unconsciousness. If someone paid a lot of attention to the counting it would not work.

I do not know what to say about "getting bored, and stop counting" as I am all about mental discipline and inducing a trance like state of sleeping body and aware mind. If someone stops attempting to use their anchor from boredom, that is a weakness of their discipline, not a weakness of the technique. However, we all know ourselves best. If boredom is a big hurtle, than this style of WILD is probably not for you.

So, I am curious CMIND, what do you do in your WILD attempts? Are you using any kind of anchor? What are you doing to help you bring some awareness into sleep? There are so many ways to get to the same place.








That does not make sense to me. I thought the point was to have the body fall asleep, while the mind stays awake. My body can certainly fall asleep while I am counting, if I am good at WILD. Honestly.

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Hello there, once again i have a question.
I thought of an anchor that is to play music in my head constantly until something happens. Is this good for an anchor?

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Hello there, once again i have a question.
I thought of an anchor that is to play music in my head constantly until something happens. Is this good for an anchor?

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It is only good if the music is something simple you will not have to think about. Keep it short and repetative. I have used 'Row row row your boat" but replaced row with Dream, and it worked as well as anything else. Make it complex and your mind will stay too engaged preventing the body from accepting that it is time to sleep.

Any real music that you might hear on the radio is guaranteed to keep you awake, which is obviously not very helpful.

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Originally Posted by sivason

It is only good if the music is something simple you will not have to think about. Keep it short and repetative. I have used 'Row row row your boat" but replaced row with Dream, and it worked as well as anything else. Make it complex and your mind will stay too engaged preventing the body from accepting that it is time to sleep.

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I Figured i'd ask a question on anchors since i have everything down except for them.
I'm planning on using an environmental anchor, one that works by itself, and what i found was placing my finger on a spot on my bed which applies slight pressure that i can feel.
I can't confirm whether or not this will work right now, but as a general note does it in theory actually work? I tried hands under back but that was too much pressure for me to sleep.

And i chose environmental anchors because from what i tried today, they allow me to sink into sleepiness easily.

I noticed that one of the anchors that works pretty well for me when I want to stay conscious the longer I can why crossing some sleep stages, is the mantra "to stay focused" that I say in french "rester concentré".
I mentally say it each time I inhale at the beginning, and less often after a while.
I don't focus on the meaning of this mantra, but it's like a part of my subconscious understands the meaning and helps me to stay focused by bringing my awareness back when I am loosing it.

When I do it at a WBTB for a WILD purpose, especially after having taken Galantamine and having tried to relax for about 60 min on the bed (the time that Galantamine takes to kick in), it helps me to stay focused until something happens.
Then, if I feel that a WILD window is opening, I can try some movement visualizations, or something to initiate the Dream entry.
Sometimes it produces FA that I can recognize by doing a RC.

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Originally Posted by Kaan

I noticed that one of the anchors that works pretty well for me when I want to stay conscious the longer I can why crossing some sleep stages, is the mantra "to stay focused" that I say in french "rester concentré".
I mentally say it each time I inhale at the beginning, and less often after a while.
I don't focus on the meaning of this mantra, but it's like a part of my subconscious understands the meaning and helps me to stay focused by bringing my awareness back when I am loosing it.

When I do it at a WBTB for a WILD purpose, especially after having taken Galantamine and having tried to relax for about 60 min on the bed (the time that Galantamine takes to kick in), it helps me to stay focused until something happens.
Then, if I feel that a WILD window is opening, I can try some movement visualizations, or something to initiate the Dream entry.
Sometimes it produces FA that I can recognize by doing a RC.

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Seems good to work for you, but for me i wonder why i keep failing at anchors in general.
If i use a mantra, do i just say it in my mind like a zombie? or do i focus on it?

I wanted to try something like a tight wrist watch as an anchor, but reading your post made me reconsider. The only problem being is that i don't get how to use mental anchors.

Ideally, an anchor will be something easy to remember. You don't want to have to think too much about it, so make it short and repetitive.
As Sivason said above, try row, row, row, your boat. Just have it playing in the background, like when you get a song stuck in your head.

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Originally Posted by DreamLord1

Ideally, an anchor will be something easy to remember. You don't want to have to think too much about it, so make it short and repetitive.
As Sivason said above, try row, row, row, your boat. Just have it playing in the background, like when you get a song stuck in your head.

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I'll give something a try. Time to look back at all my previous attempts and see where my problem lies.

Edit:
Figured out that the amount of hours i need to sleep before attempting should be 6 hours. Which most likely is the missing piece of this puzzle.