#1 Misconception about WILD

WILD. Everyone says it's just laying still for a really long time, and focusing on something. The hard part is staying still. People make many threads on how stressful it is to stay still, or fret about swallowing, or hypnic jerks, or some other minor motion.

But why must we stay still?

I'm currently reading ETWOLD, and have come across only a single reason why he stayed still while practicing:

"I made extreme efforts not to move more than necessary to minimize interference with physiological recordings."

... That was in a laboratory setting. Never in the chapter does he mention remaining completely motionless to increase the chance of a WILD occurring. So why, then, do we strive towards motionlessness? Was something lost in translation? Does it stem from trying to mimic the sleep paralysis state? And, most importantly, does it even matter?

We move naturally when we fall asleep. Our bodies unconsciously find the most comfortable position (I most always end up waking in a different position than I first lay down in!). We also involuntarily twitch and swallow. Our eyes flitter open every now and then. So why, in a technique where we are supposed to fall asleep, would we inhibit these natural processes by concentrating on willed paralysis?

WILDing by "induced paralysis" isn't only unnatural, but it's mentally counterproductive. Those who are not prone to WILDs spend too much thought focusing on the sensations of their body than a more internal train of thought. I believe that this not only keeps the body awake, but puts awareness moreso on 'mentally' dispelling discomfort. Obviously, this can stress a WILDer out, especially if they have felt the same cramp building for thirty minutes!

I've read and reread my written dream journal entries where I've succeeded at WILD. The is only one instance that lasted for an entire REM period. And before entering the dream, I moved as much as I wanted.

So... Why?

Seems to me this is what people mean when to WILD is to "fall asleep."

The only thing I can think of is keeping your body still so its movements cease to exist in your mind, that way you lose track of your physical self...

But there are others who can answer this better than me... having never WILDed successfully myself...

There's another topic on this forum that says when your body stays still for a prolonged period of time, your body probes your mind to see if it's asleep. That would be the itches, twitches, cramps, persistent feelings of discomfort, etc. If you ignore them and continue to stay still, your mind stays awake but your body is tricked into thinking it's asleep. Then the body falls asleep (SP, numbness, etc.) but your mind is awake, which is the perfect conditions for a WILD.

I'm more inclined to believe that the mind probes the body, not the other way around. I believe this is done consciously during a WILD. Otherwise, why do we fall asleep every night when our body still moves?

It's not necessary for the body to be completely still prior to WILD. Sleep paralysis ensures this. I doubt anti-dream signals will be produced from a swallow or from satisfying an itch. Flailing your arms, maybe, but not flicking a finger.

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Originally Posted by Abra

I'm more inclined to believe that the mind probes the body, not the other way around. I believe this is done consciously during a WILD. Otherwise, why do we fall asleep every night when our body still moves?

It's not necessary for the body to be completely still prior to WILD. Sleep paralysis ensures this. I doubt anti-dream signals will be produced from a swallow or from satisfying an itch. Flailing your arms, maybe, but not flicking a finger.

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Maybe its because satisfying an itch is an intentional movement. You think "I'm itching, scratch it, but slowly... I'm trying to WILD" and thats way too much thought.

Notice we move in our sleep, but we don't do it consciously, or try to do it. Don't you agree?

Well I'm just parroting what I've already read, but it sounded pretty convincing to me... I dunno there were quite a few people that said it was true... yeah I dunno.

Not sure if it's really necessary to be still during a WILD - but I bet it has more to do with your mind than your body. I definitely want to know if you manage to WILD without holding still, so let me know.

Well, isn't this the thing with the body testing if you're asleep?
The body wants you to move, if you move, you're awake, if you don't, then it goes to sleep paralysis.
But that's with the sudden "I think I need to move my leg for some reason" feelings, not for if you need to swallow etc.

And the body adjusting to the most comfortable position... My body is either dumb, knows that I want to wake up in REM, or simply hates my arm. it always ends up on top of my arm, causing me to wake up with no feelings at all in my arm, sometimes I can't even move it for a while too. It's like my body's going "Psst, he's asleep, let's go lie on top of the left arm, I really hate that arm!"

Anyways, the swallow part while doing a WILD, I think they say that if it stays there, swallow away or it will just hinder your WILD even more.

I think when we fall asleep naturally, the mind shuts down before the body. Therefore, you are remaining still. I conjecture that every night, you have imaginary itches and discomforts, it's just that when you fall asleep naturally, your mind is unconscious and doesn't notice. Therefore, it doesn't move to scratch them or to change position. So you do remain still, automatically, just like what we're trying to recreate in the stillness technique of WILD.

I don't know about other people, but when I'm sleeping, if I have to change position, my body wakes me up and I move. I fall back asleep almost immediately, but during the moving, I'm actually slightly awake and aware.

This myth drives me nuts too. I see so many people failing at their wilds because they think all they need to do is remain absolutely still. This is wrong wrong wrong in my experience. The first time I ever heard this (in 10 years of LDing) was when I read Jeff777's tutorial on tricking your body into falling asleep.

When you WILD, you just need to fall asleep. Physically, just do what you normally do. You shouldn't be fidgeting around all over the place, but you shouldn't be trying to be absolutely frozen either. Its as if people forget how to fall asleep as soon as they try to do it consciously.

I think the myth comes from people's unfamiliarity with meditation and directing their thoughts. Its very hard to practice a technique that is all mental. People cling to something more familiar. "Shift your consciousness from your real body to an imaginary one? I can't do that. Lie still and don't move for an hour.....Ok that sounds easier. I'll try that one."

When you WILD, you need to shift your attention away from your physical body. Not moving will help this process, but it is not necessary. You need to ignore your physical body. 'Ignore' and 'Don't move' are not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

When you WILD, you need to shift your attention away from your physical body. Not moving will help this process, but it is not necessary. You need to ignore your physical body. 'Ignore' and 'Don't move' are not the same thing.

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I think he explained it best...

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Originally Posted by AspirationRealized

I think he explained it best...

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I agree, I just tried it yesterday, it's hard to explain, but I imagined myself being on my bike, imagining what it looks like, imagining the feeling of driving around, sometimes doing the front wheel jump thing, and while doing it I tried to imagine what it would be like to move my consciousness...

Now, I've never successfully pulled off a WILD, neither have I had a successful Lucid Dream, but I still got the wave going from my feet to my head, where as my heart began to pump faster, and I got out of it, and began to feel the itches on my legs and hands again. (Which was completely gone while I was in my imagination.)

Cool. I'm going to try that when I wake up after ~5 hours some time.
And that was only keeping that in mind, no other long explaination of how to do a WILD, just that, it can look that easy!

And, moved.

This is interesting.
I have experimented with staying still and moving for a while now, and it seemed that whenever I stayed still, I started feeling total numbness, but my body never actually shut down. Which I think is because my mind never did that. Last night I ended up in sleep paralysis from within a dream... I had a false awakening and wanted to put my body to sleep. The only times when I have actually experienced SP was right after dreaming, or like last night, during a dream.
Staying awake but motionless got me to numbness and even complete loss of feeling of my body, but I was always able to move it without any problems.
As a side note, I'm doing this right when going to sleep. I don't do WBTB, I don't even want to WILD when I have dreamt, because my goal is to focus on my inside without long preparation.
Sometimes I just try to "actively disconnect" from my body. I try to focus on my inside, and my "mind's view", by which I do not mean the blackness you actually see.
Even without sleeping for the so-often-mentioned 6 hours of sleep, I sometimes start seeing dream scenes within a very short time. However, it also makes me lose my awareness and consciousness, and I usually end up waking up the next day - or sometimes I get my awareness back during a dream. It's like suspending my awareness.
Sometimes I have those dream flashes where I can move for a second, and feel, then it goes black again. It's different from actually moving my body, and I can actually move and get out of bed, because I'm not paralysed at all then. It's like shifting the movement commands into your dream-scene.
Say what you want, but I don't think that the body paralyses so you don't act out your dreams... I think your mind disconnects, and paralysis is more like your laptop's "power safe" feature...

Now I'm not saying that I go to bed and hop into a lucid dream every night. Far from it. I had very few WILDs, and yes, mostly in the morning, but as I said, I don't try it to often at that time... (maybe because it's usually nearly midday, or my alarm wakes me ... for a reason :P)

Yeah. Actually, when my friend and I began to LD he focused on WILD while I focused on DILD. When I finally decided to try WILD he told me that you can move while doing it unlike what some tutorials say.

The reason is because even though when you go to sleep normally & you naturally move and find a comfy spot, during those times you're not entirely aware of your moving. However when you're WILDing you're conscious enough to notice every twitch, and trying to STAY conscious the whole time. If you're conscious of it the whole time it would make it harder for your body to sleep. Just like how you wont fall asleep while you're walking even if your mind in a very meditative state.

Hmm, i have to admit, I don't think that staying still is entirely necessary either. I've tried to remain completely frozen on multiple occassions, and every time I'm able to stay still for at least twenty minutes. Every time I've attempted this I just get restless, and my focus shifts to how uncomfortable my body is.

I think that for some people, staying still might work, but for others, it doesnt.

I think it all depends on what exactly you do when you move, if you gently move your leg to get more comfortable then I don't think it will effect your WILD at all. If you however violently kick your legs around and scratch furiously at your itch then ya, your gonna wake your body up. It's all about how it's done. I like to imagine that my conscious mind is separate from my body and is floating rihgt above it. It tends to work for me!!:boogie:

Awesome! Another Canadian!

For many the idea of focusing on laying still just keeps them awake. They stay alert and expect something to happen ranther than relaxing and shifting awareness. Granted my WILDs have be done just as I exited sleep but as I woke before them I know how it feels to be in the zone. Most of the time when I've felt vibrations I failed it as I expected to fall into a dream. In my expereince it's all about forgetting about your body and just going with it.

Then again, I only have expereinces in WILDs from which I wake up for a brief moment. It's a DEILD I guess but I try not and get all the lucid dreaming jargon muddled.

I'm confused. I have learned that WILD is entering a lucid dream through the use of SP. If WILD has nothing to do with SP, then what is WILD? How/what do you do?

You know, in using the advice from KingYoshi, I was able to enter my first WILD in less than 40 minutes. His advice is to change your postition every 10-15 min. until you start feeling the paralysis. It actually works! I only had to lay still for 10 min. or so and then move instead of laying still for two HOURS. So, I don't think it's absolutely imperative that you never move, but that you limit your movement.

cloud, did you have pre-sleep before you tried that?

If somebody's trying to stay still to the point that it's physically painful, that's pretty counter-productive. Same with scratching an itch or swallowing.