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    1. #1
      Ev
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      Subconscious: For or against You?

      I've encountered a paradox.

      When I dream, my subconscious mind tries to play every dirty trick to keep me from becoming lucid.

      Yet sometimes I just stumble on digital clocks in the most unusual locations. it's the same digital clock I have at home.

      The moment I see it, i become lucid.
      It's like an invitation to lucidity: look , you are dreaming!


      Question is : why your subconscious mind tricks you out of lucidity, yet gives you such obvious clues ?

    2. #2
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      I think because it is controlling so much stuff it doesn't notice the random thing that slips in. Plus it likes toying with you. It wants you to go lucid so it can trick you back into a normal dream and then laugh at you.

    3. #3
      Bio-Turing Machine O'nus's Avatar
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      Perhaps your subconscious mind battling against you.. or..

      Your conscious mind is developed and structured with ethics, standards, language, rules, etc. that you have been taught in your life to obey in the modern world. All these rules and ethics, sense of self, etc. are what can cause disorientation and the conscious resisting the subconscious mind from something that the conscious mind might feel resentment of. Such as the thoughts of "is lucid dreaming actually possible?" is just enough to make your subconscious create problems and stagnate the potential for lucidity.

      Also, the conscious mind believing that the subconscious mind is resisting the conscious mind from fully comprehending and becoming lucid with the subconscious atmosphere, will further perpetuate the stagnation and the possiblity of lucidity.

      Most of the time, the problems that a person has, the complications in ones mind, are completel self-perpetuated and created by the individual.

      Hope I've been enlightening.

    4. #4
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      my subconcious is a bad bad bad evil being...ya, self-perpetuated, maybe...but ITS STILL EVIL, DARNIT! >.<

      ...mine wants to control my concious mind...i find it attempting to do so, even when im awake...i really dont like other people controlling me, and that includes my sub-councious...it can control my heart and breathing, find, but leave then rest to me kkthx grrrrr

    5. #5
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      Good explanation, O'nus.

      I'm gunna negoatiate or argue with my subconscious, maybe that'll unlock some secrets and abilities..
      naturals are what we call people who did all the right things accidentally

    6. #6
      Member Lord of the Flies's Avatar
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      *Note: I'm starting off subject to work progressivly to my point, so bear with me.

      I'm sure you're all familiar with the concept of surpressed memories. Horrors (often of childhood) that the mind has erased to spare you useless agony. A lucid dreamer, however, can access these long lost memories if desired. Just like prying open a locked chest.

      In this way the subconscience reminds me of Pandora's box. It's there to serve you and deal out what your conscience (you) needs to know (not necessarily wants however).

      I've had my subconscience fight against me, but once I take control then I'm able to take a certain hold on it as well and create things to defend myself or simply eliminate the "threat".

      Basically what I'm suggesting is that the subconscience is rather working for us by hiding things we're not supposed to access. Almost every time I LD I try to get to the Core of the mind. That secret place within the mind that's basically like the H.Q. of the mind. Yet no matter how hard I try, no matter how in control I am, I've never reached it.

      Asssuming you could get to the core of your mind and take command of everything, can you imagine the amount of information that would over load your conscience? Everything that your subconscience was made to take care of would be in the hands of your conscience. You'd go mad.

      Conclusion?

      The reason I think your mind is always against you and hides so many things is because that's it's job and it does it to keep you safe. Besides, asside from on these forums I'm sure it's safe to say that the people that can control their dreams are excessivly rare. Are we able to do something we're not supposed to? I just think that we weren't built to control our dreams in the first place.

      But to hell with that, I do it anyways. 8)
      The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind.

    7. #7
      Member Lowercase Society's Avatar
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      Dreaming and the Subconscious: My opinion.


      When your conscious becomes awakened in the subconscious, the subconscious feels as if it's 'area' or 'land' is being 'trespassed' on. But, when we are conscious, our subconscious can play tricks on us...we notice it in everday life...and the coscious feels as if the subconscious is trespassing, too...

      Perhaps the subconscious is like a bi-polar person...it is 'nice and mean' at the same time.
      "i am the crumpled sheets of paper behind an artists' attempt at perfection"


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    8. #8
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      i seem to recall a good post somewhere on the forum discussing the right/left brain usage durring dream. i don't remember which side is which, but the side that controlls your dreaming is not the one concerned with time (cronological order of events), details, reading, etc... although when you lucid dream you essencially wake up the other half of your brain to a certain extent.

      i think the reason why you get these quite obvious "clues" is either because a) your "creative" brain isn't paying attention enough to detail 2) your "scientific" brain is waking up just a little and adding these features to gain more of a pressence or 3) you are so used to doing reality checks, etc.. that it has just become instinct to do so.

      hope this helps :-)

      -lor4x

      PS: the search will probably yeild the article, i'm too lazy to do it myself right now
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    9. #9
      Member Lord of the Flies's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Lowercase Society
      Dreaming and the Subconscious: My opinion.


      When your conscious becomes awakened in the subconscious, the subconscious feels as if it's 'area' or 'land' is being 'trespassed' on. But, when we are conscious, our subconscious can play tricks on us...we notice it in everday life...and the coscious feels as if the subconscious is trespassing, too...

      Perhaps the subconscious is like a bi-polar person...it is 'nice and mean' at the same time.
      I agree 100% with Lowercase Society and I think he said it much better than I did and much simpler too.

      About the subconscience being bi-polar...perhaps it's more devided than we've been braught up to think it is. I mean come on, lucid dreamers are the only people capable of exploring the mind first hand at our own will and we've been given simple lessons about a complex thing by people who know little about it. I think the subconscience is more devided than we've been told.
      The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind.

    10. #10
      Member incubusfunkman's Avatar
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      i believe the subconcoius mind almost always is 6 steps ahead of the concoius mind, and all it does , it does for a good reason, and when we drench it with things like astral projection or LDing then it will find a way for these things to be possible, undoubtably though the subconcoius works in wierd ways and will do things that may appear to not benefit you at all.
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    11. #11
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      I think this is a good topic, so I don't mind bringing it back up again .

      I do not believe that your subconcious would try and work against you to achieve something of a negative nature. Maybe it doesn't want us to lucidly dream? If it doesn't, then it obviously has a reason for it. Maybe it can cause damage to ourselves. Maybe it thinks that we are damaging ourselves, and maybe we really aren't. Do you frequent ld'ers out there ever attempt to ask your subconcious why it attempts to decieve you? Maybe your subconcious is simply doing it's main purpose of keeping you inactive and at rest being sleeping isn't a time for exploring the nature of existance, it's for rest, but we seem to think not. Maybe our subconcious doesn't even exist and we are simply playing with ourselves...

    12. #12
      Member incubusfunkman's Avatar
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      i think the subconcious does exist but at a certain level of existance, its more of like a secret you keep from yourself, it doesnt think for itself, it is still a part of what makes up YOU, it isnt a whole different existance. you are in control of your subconcoius , you just got to quuit keeping secrets from yourself and tell yourself that you are in control of your subconcious, then you will be, just know that you are, then it is true, ......you see....blah, im just mindlessly blabbering on
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    13. #13
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      Mine is aginst me..><;.....It never has any electrical thing in my dream..O.o..Stupid Subconscious

    14. #14
      Member kufu91's Avatar
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      your mind cant be for or angest oyu. its your conscious mind that has concepts of lucididy and control. it is not a person deciding if your are lucid or not.

    15. #15
      Member incubusfunkman's Avatar
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      good idea, lets bring this topic back up, it was an interesting one

      Well i agree and disagree with that statement.
      We are in control, but we arent in control. But only because our subconcious makes us believe we arent. We are in just as much control as we are. The subconcious makes suggestion to us that are unaware of and so we mindlessly follow these suggestions. But cant we also do vise versa and make suggestions to our subconcoius through hynosis? So do we not have equal control?

      Peace-Matt
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    16. #16
      Member Placebo's Avatar
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      I've found an interesting article that has great relevance to this subject.... will post it in its own thread though.

      http://www.bcx.net/hypnosis/mythwill.htm

      I really look forward to comments !...
      Tips For Newbies | What to do in an LD

      Unless otherwise stated, views expressed in this post are not necessarily representative of the official Dream Views stance. Hell, it's probably not even representative of me.

    17. #17
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      Placebo Im interested in that article and I will probably edit this post to add some response to that, but right now I dont feel like reading it.

      Anyway, I think the term 'subconscious mind' has misguided some people... I dont believe that the subconscious mind is a seperate mind from yours, scheming and deciding what and what not to let you know... pulling strings to control your conscious when it wants...

      Now Im not a neuroscientist or anything, but I am led to believe that it is just stored memories (which I guess, is essentialy what our brain does, what makes us, us). Sure, it stores memories and FEELINGS that the conscious doesn't want to know about, which we can unlock through meditation.

      I believe that through a meditation exercise (and using free association) that I have discovered and gone over various issues that effect me in my daily life. I can also change my 'default settings'... the things that make me react angrily or happily or whatever in certian situations.
      "Ah, but therin lies the paradox." - Joseph_Stalin

    18. #18
      Member Placebo's Avatar
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      I would in theory agree - the subconscious isn't sentient in the way we understand it....

      What I still don't understand though is that dream where my subconscious basically played a prank on me - left a note around saying 'You're a prick'.
      Very funny... hehe
      Tips For Newbies | What to do in an LD

      Unless otherwise stated, views expressed in this post are not necessarily representative of the official Dream Views stance. Hell, it's probably not even representative of me.

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