Thread: Lucid dreaming without methods of induction. Instant?

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Found out the reason for the glitches. The NE555 timer chip is over heating inside the mask. I will have to make a heatsink for it. Damn, now I know why prototypes are called prototypes !!

Use a couple of small FETs to drive the LEDs instead of driving them directly from the 555. With the FETs you can parallel a couple of LEDs for increased light output also, and the current sink will be greatly reduced on the 555.

results results results lol.. tell us why you've been enjoying it so much

This is quite intriguing I'll definitely have to play around with this.
How long did he say it should take? 15 minutes?

Originally Posted by Shadow27

This is quite intriguing I'll definitely have to play around with this.
How long did he say it should take? 15 minutes?

I actually don't know, maybe faster, hopefully...
btw, your signature is pretty cool shadow.. especially the "are you dreaming"

Originally Posted by anderj101

Use a couple of small FETs to drive the LEDs instead of driving them directly from the 555. With the FETs you can parallel a couple of LEDs for increased light output also, and the current sink will be greatly reduced on the 555.

Of course, thanks. Each LED is drawing 30 mA and they are in series as it is better to do it that way from what I have read so I'll run the clock signal from the chip into a suitable NPN transistor to drive the LED's

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Of course, thanks. Each LED is drawing 30 mA and they are in series as it is better to do it that way from what I have read so I'll run the clock signal from the chip into a suitable NPN transistor to drive the LED's

Great So when this thing is working, what kind of results are you seeing? if any yet

Originally Posted by atkins513

results results results lol.. tell us why you've been enjoying it so much

I found that if I moved the LED's slightly off my line of sight I had better results. I started seeing lots of very thin, short lines of light in all directions and lots of different colours. I think this is the start of the geometric patterns people talk about. I sometimes see these lines of light as natural hypnogogic visuals. I need to add a transistor to my circuit as it was too much of a nuisance holding the circuit board as it was overheating too much in the sleep mask. Once I have added the transistor the overheating issue will be resolved and I can do a proper experiment using the mask.

Originally Posted by atkins513

I actually don't know, maybe faster, hopefully...
btw, your signature is pretty cool shadow.. especially the "are you dreaming"

I'd just like to say I did see some stuff after trying that online dreammachine thing.
I saw some shapes and such, nothing special. Really just kinda like the stuff you see
after those youtube videos of hypnosis wheels. Just thought I'd report it anyway.

btw the original machine in that video reminds me of a zoetrope

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I found that if I moved the LED's slightly off my line of sight I had better results. I started seeing lots of very thin, short lines of light in all directions and lots of different colours. I think this is the start of the geometric patterns people talk about. I sometimes see these lines of light as natural hypnogogic visuals. I need to add a transistor to my circuit as it was too much of a nuisance holding the circuit board as it was overheating too much in the sleep mask. Once I have added the transistor the overheating issue will be resolved and I can do a proper experiment using the mask.

Great, how long before you have a working prototype? today?

Originally Posted by atkins513

Great, how long before you have a working prototype? today?

Tomorrow. I also felt odd brain sensations that I have never experienced before.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Tomorrow. I also felt odd brain sensations that I have never experienced before.

thats interesting.. I think we are gonna get good results with this

I have experimented with light through closed eyelids but not with that speed. I think it would either disturb sleep or you just fall into sleep and dream normally and when you awaken your dream recall would be adversely affected because leaving the flickering light on like that would surely disturb stage 2 sleep or maybe even wake you up before REM because stage 2 is very sensitive to light or sound so any change would cause awakening. And if it did work the REM dreamer would not be made it would be easier to use the above idea.

IMJ

Originally Posted by imj

I have experimented with light through closed eyelids but not with that speed. I think it would either disturb sleep or you just fall into sleep and dream normally and when you awaken your dream recall would be adversely affected because leaving the flickering light on like that would surely disturb stage 2 sleep or maybe even wake you up before REM because stage 2 is very sensitive to light or sound so any change would cause awakening. And if it did work the REM dreamer would not be made it would be easier to use the above idea.

IMJ

The Gysin dream machine is designed to induce WILD's.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I found that if I moved the LED's slightly off my line of sight I had better results. I started seeing lots of very thin, short lines of light in all directions and lots of different colours. I think this is the start of the geometric patterns people talk about. I sometimes see these lines of light as natural hypnogogic visuals. I need to add a transistor to my circuit as it was too much of a nuisance holding the circuit board as it was overheating too much in the sleep mask. Once I have added the transistor the overheating issue will be resolved and I can do a proper experiment using the mask.

Great light show...but makes me think will it get far enough to REM stage? I think we are forgetting stages 2, 3 and 4. My feeling tells me you will loose everything by the time your mind hits stage 2 that's because at stage 2 your mind registers nothing visual nor will it respond to anything except wake up when it detects disturbance. So you could be oscillating between going back to sleep and waking up at stage 2...sounds like alot of dreamless sleep to me. Even for morning WILD's there's at least stage 2. If you WILD on your own it's less likely you will awaken at stage 2.

IMJ

well what we are thinking is with WBTB it could be perfect.

Originally Posted by imj

Great light show...but makes me think will it get far enough to REM stage? I think we are forgetting stages 2, 3 and 4. My feeling tells me you will loose everything by the time your mind hits stage 2 that's because at stage 2 your mind registers nothing visual nor will it respond to anything except wake up when it detects disturbance. So you could be oscillating between going back to sleep and waking up at stage 2...sounds like alot of dreamless sleep to me. Even for morning WILD's there's at least stage 2. If you WILD on your own it's less likely you will awaken at stage 2.

IMJ

I see what you are saying now. People have reported having WILD's with this. I am hoping to obtain visuals of actual objects and then using the 'containmnent and spinning method' from Lucidology 102 to suck me into a lucid dream.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

The Gysin dream machine is designed to induce WILD's.

But it would still affect dream recall because the light is still on unless a timer is installed to cut the light off after you gone pass the HI stage and start dreaming. Artificial light sources can be quite damaging to dream recall and sleep...do it over a 6 month period and you get a disrupted dream pattern/frequency and poor sleep cycles.

IMJ

I will use a timer to shut it off after I can gauge time scales.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I see what you are saying now. People have reported having WILD's with this. I am hoping to obtain visuals of actual objects and then using the 'containmnent and spinning method' from Lucidology 102 to suck me into a lucid dream.

I can fix it up with no problem but I am apprehensive about it because using light has cost me my sleep and dream frequency... I may try it after I seen you guy's results....or effects of it.

IMJ

Originally Posted by imj

I can fix it up with no problem but I am apprehensive about it because using light has cost me my sleep and dream frequency...

IMJ

Can you elaborate please? What experiments have you done precisely?

I used a timer that could be reset at anytime by pressing a small switch held in the hand while falling asleep. I had the cue enter the dream but the problem was recognizing it. So I later resorted to using it to induce WILD or in hopes to add some conscious awareness into dreams. I got some success with the latter. During one of the test pattern of light which was having the light remain on and then off for 2 s and then turn back on like a beacon I was able to see the light in the dream and because it was a waking up dream where I was already awake but still dreaming I was able to dream not lucidly but with waking memory of what I wanted from the dream and it manifested in the dream. It did not last long because the light was negating the continuing formation of the dream. I did it on two nights but further testing proved that it was affecting dreaming and sleep so I had to stop.

IMJ

After watching the video link..maybe it might work...I really don't know. But it seems the user is not dreaming anything just HI or visualizations. The machine looks like it is not designed for sleeping but more for meditative state where the user sits in front of the rotating light and there's no mention of dream control or awareness that the user is dreaming maybe I am missing something? Another point is that in the video the machine uses an incandescent light bulb which emits no blue light mainly red which if it did would upset the light to dark sleep rhythm of the mind...maybe you may want to use orange or red LEDs. White LEDs in particular have alot of blue light so I think I would avoid those...

IMJ

Originally Posted by imj

I used a timer that could be reset at anytime by pressing a small switch held in the hand while falling asleep. I had the cue enter the dream but the problem was recognizing it. So I later resorted to using it to induce WILD or in hopes to add some conscious awareness into dreams. I got some success with the latter. During one of the test pattern of light which was having the light remain on and then off for 2 s and then turn back on like a beacon I was able to see the light in the dream and because it was a waking up dream where I was already awake but still dreaming I was able to dream not lucidly but with waking memory of what I wanted from the dream and it manifested in the dream. It did not last long because the light was negating the continuing formation of the dream. I did it on two nights but further testing proved that it was affecting dreaming and sleep so I had to stop.

IMJ

Thanks for the reply. It maybe something to bear in mind.

Okay, jumping RIGHT into the middle of a conversation here, but the comment about the lights being similar to a zoetrope started me having strange, random associations. Dream palaces, as movie theaters were called, flicker lights/images at various frames per second. Anyone think it's possible to have a looped zoetrope style series of images that might help trigger lucid dreams?

I've created my own binaural beats and isochronic beats, and I have a vague understanding of how they work (especially the binaural beats, the iso I have plugins for, so I'm cheating). But exactly how would one rate the "frames per second" to get to the alpha wave?

Anyhoo, just a random somewhat related thought to toss into the mix.