How do you work out you REM periods?

**TheModernNinja** · 04-28-2011 04:12 AM

Hi,
I want to start getting serious about Wilding. Ive been only trying to get SP until now.So how do I work out my rem periods? Does it mater how old I am, and what sex etc.? Also do I have to wake up during, before or after my REM?

**KingYoshi** · 04-28-2011 11:38 AM

Hello

! In general, REM cycles every 90 minutes. This can fluctuate do to many factors, sleep deprivation, certain foods, drugs & alcohol, etc. Your gender doesn't matter and neither does your age that I am aware of. The idea is to wake up toward the beginning parts of the REM period. If you can wake up during or just before the REM period, you shouldn't have too much trouble hitting SP. Yoiu can still WILD if you wake up between REM periods, but it just may take a bit longer to get the REM ready to roll. To test when your REM periods are, use WBTB. Mostly, if you wake up from a dream, you are in REM. The later on in the sleep cycle, the more frequent your REM periods will become. You also stay in REM sleep longer as the night progresses. Hope this helped, if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask!

**TheModernNinja** · 04-28-2011 11:51 AM

Thanks KingYoshi! So pretty much just trial and error? But isn't there a way to calculate it using maths? Sweet. So WILD will be easier. I love WILD!

**KingYoshi** · 04-28-2011 11:38 PM

Well, scientifically, the REM period cycles every 90 minutes (on average). The problem is, it can change on a nightly basis depending on a wide variety of factors. For instance, sleep deprivation will cause "REM rebound." Basically, REM will start earlier, last longer, and become more frequent throughout the night. Other things can suppress REM sleep, like alcohol for example. REM may not start up until much later than usual. Alcohol also can create REM rebound which happens toward the end of the sleep cycle or on the next night's sleep. These are just some examples, but there are loads of things that can effect your sleep. Stress is a big one too. Just like every personality is unique, so are your dreaming patterns/habits/etc.

If after your first alarm, you wake up and can't recall even a fragment of a dream, set your alarm ahead for another hour. Repeat as necessary. It doesn't take too long to figure out some general alarm times for WBTB.

**TheModernNinja** · 04-29-2011 01:45 AM

The problem is that I can only recall dreams at about 10am when I usually wake up (without an alarm). By that time it's already light outside and I can't fall asleep again. (Yeah, my dream recall sucks). What should I do?

**KingYoshi** · 04-29-2011 11:50 AM

Hmm...so have you tried to set alarms throughout the night and recall your dreams then?

**TheModernNinja** · 04-30-2011 01:18 AM

no....but i sometimes wake up tu piss....and can't remember anything. But Ill try.

Ev · 04-30-2011 02:47 AM

You may be able to figure out when your REM periods take place by observing when your dreams end. I'm still looking for a confirmation of this fact, but it looks promising. Here's a long and detailed explanation of what I'm trying to do

In short, if you align your time in bed as 0, and record when you wake up from your dreams, you may soon see a pattern like this:

(dreams are triangles, black line is hypnogram). Notice how triangles align above the REM periods. This is about 6 days of dreams recorded upon awakening using "Lucid Dreaming App".

Once this information is obtained, you can then schedule your sound reminders to go off during suspected REM. Here's an example of how the app does it (dreams are teal triangles triangles, reminders are purple crosses).

At the moment I'm doing it with an Android App. I don't think this is going to be very reliable with pen and paper alone. I've kept a Time in bed - time out of bed activity log, and just doing the math alone is a pain. If you have something like a vibrating watch, you may try to use that. My advice would be to program it with the pre-defined intervals that you estimated, and then reset it to 00:00 when you go to sleep.

**TheModernNinja** · 04-30-2011 03:29 AM

Do you know if you can get it for itouch?

Ev · 04-30-2011 03:53 AM

No, I havent seen many lucid dreaming apps for iphones and such. Only the guides that are trying to rip you off...

**KingYoshi** · 05-01-2011 06:03 AM

That is some cool stuff right there Ev. Very interesting indeed. If only I had an android...I would definitely be playing around with that.

**TheModernNinja** · 05-03-2011 06:36 AM

Yeah same. I'll see if I can find something like that for apple. KingYoshi, does the "Drinking heaps before bed" work?

**KingYoshi** · 05-03-2011 08:33 AM

Yeah, if you drink enough fluids before bed, your body/mind will wake up naturally to relieve yourself. You will just have to experiment with how much to drink and whatnot.

**TheModernNinja** · 05-03-2011 10:13 AM

I did it and I think I drank too much cause I woke up after 2 hrs of sleep. I was freaked out.

**KingYoshi** · 05-03-2011 11:38 AM

Ah, yeah if you drink a whole lot, you will wake up too soon. You can also drink more after you wake up, so you can wake up again in a few more hours. Don't freak out

. Your body will naturally wake itself up when you have to use the restroom bad enough. It is completely natural and won't hurt you

.

Ev · 05-03-2011 04:46 PM

There's a funny side effect of dreaming of bathrooms, and urination after drinking too much water...

If you notice this consistently, this may be used as a dream sign.

**TheModernNinja** · 05-05-2011 07:51 AM

No but you know how if ur rem starts like 4 hrs or less or something after u fall asleep, there's something wrong with u? THats why I freaked out lol.

What about any other way to wake up at a certain time, what other methods do u know? Cause Im a real deep sleeper and I brought this alarm but its not loud enough to wake me up

**KingYoshi** · 05-05-2011 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by TheModernNinja

No but you know how if ur rem starts like 4 hrs or less or something after u fall asleep, there's something wrong with u? THats why I freaked out lol.

What about any other way to wake up at a certain time, what other methods do u know? Cause Im a real deep sleeper and I brought this alarm but its not loud enough to wake me up

Nah, there isn't anything wrong with you

. The point in which REM begins can vary from one night to the next. Like face said, REM generally occurs every 90 minutes, but there are many factors that can affect this. Sleep deprivation is a big one, along with stress, drugs/alcohol, etc.

I am also a deep sleeper. I will often sleep right through my alarms. I would suggest trying out some mantras as you lay down for bed. "I will wake up in "X" hours, I will wake up in "X" hours" or something similar. Pair this up with an alarm or drinking fluids and you should be set.

**faceonmars** · 05-05-2011 01:52 PM

REM cycles occur every 90 to 100 minutes. I actually don't worry about REM cycles these days. My main entry into a LD is in non-REM dreams that occur between the Theta and Delta brainwave states.

**TheModernNinja** · 05-07-2011 12:12 AM

Haha thanks. Mantras sometimes work for me, it's just that its harder to fall asleep. Once I tried that and didn't fall asleep for 2hrs! lol

So I will begin doing trial and error. Where should I start? (How many hrs after sleep?)

**KingYoshi** · 05-08-2011 01:49 AM

I recommend starting at around 4 hours of sleep and adjusting from there. Remember that REM cycles every 90 minutes (on average). Use that as a guide and then adjust from there.