I do not understand what I am doing Wrong?

So, im pretty much a natural at waking up completely motionless with eyes closed after my dreams. Most people would say if you can do this, you should be able to DEILD no problem. Well this is not the case for me. Im gonna say, ive waken from atleast 15+ dreams completely motionless without anything happening. I recall the dream as good as possible and visualize it. Alot of people say, that during DEILDs most people usually dont experience vibrations/SP/auditory hallucinations. Yet, the only time i actually came close to Lucid dreaming and probably the only reason im still going at DEILDs is because Ive experienced intense vibrations/auditory hallucinations on two attempts. My only guesses to which its not working is because im either too awake when i exit the dream, or i need to go to sleep earlier. Most of these attempts do occur after 4-6 hours asleep. And average about 3 attempts per day.

so i usually fall asleep at 12 at night. I do a WBTB around 4. Then i start waking up from Dreams usually like 6,7, and 8 in the morning

So far I've only experienced vibrations and/or hallucinations in one attempt at DEILD. I had both visual and auditory hallucinations, along with extreme vibration, but some people only experience one or two out of the three. I guess it's different with everyone.

I can't seem to DEILD whenever I do a WBTB or wake up with a random noise in the house. I think it disrupts my sleep or something. I have to wake up naturally after every dream, which usually is no problem for me unless I'm very tired, and stay still until I find myself someplace else (in a dream) or start feeling HH.

Try alternating between doing and not doing WBTB. Also, just before you go to bed, keep telling yourself that you'll have a successful attempt at DEILD whenever you wake up from a dream. It's extra motivation.

Check out dutchraptor's guide to DEILD somewhere around here. (Sorry, I can't post links yet, but a quick search should help you.)

Good luck. :)

Your timing seems right, so it is probably your mental state. You need to barely wake up and still be on the verge of a dream. Do you fall back to sleep? You must fall back into sleep AND stay aware at the same time. It still takes skills used in WILD and has the disadvantage of a high failure rate due to you drifting into an unaware state easily. Its big advantage is not having to wait for REM.
Learn about the mental state and tricks in WILD and use them in DEILD.

Try sleeping in at the weekend and see if that helps.

I had similar timings to you, but during the summer when it's bright in the early morning I tend to wake up too much to DEILD. Sleeping in an extra couple of hours tends to yield better results for me as it's that time when you can really get into deep sleep - the one that leaves you feeling groggy all day - and I just find it easier to DEILD from this.

Don't panic. Try to keep track of what is working for you, as far as dream recall, dream clarity, and dream control. What works for someone else might not work for you. We're all different. And it's not necessarily going to work overnight. Be patient.

i have to do a WBTB because I always wake up in the middle of the night now no matter what. Im going to try to increase the length of my WBTB to 30-45 minutes so im more tired when i start waking up from dreams.

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Originally Posted by xpin2winx

So, im pretty much a natural at waking up completely motionless with eyes closed after my dreams. Most people would say if you can do this, you should be able to DEILD no problem. Well this is not the case for me. Im gonna say, ive waken from atleast 15+ dreams completely motionless without anything happening. I recall the dream as good as possible and visualize it. Alot of people say, that during DEILDs most people usually dont experience vibrations/SP/auditory hallucinations. Yet, the only time i actually came close to Lucid dreaming and probably the only reason im still going at DEILDs is because Ive experienced intense vibrations/auditory hallucinations on two attempts. My only guesses to which its not working is because im either too awake when i exit the dream, or i need to go to sleep earlier. Most of these attempts do occur after 4-6 hours asleep. And average about 3 attempts per day.

so i usually fall asleep at 12 at night. I do a WBTB around 4. Then i start waking up from Dreams usually like 6,7, and 8 in the morning

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Ok, a few things.

One, don't get out of bed at 4 am. That's just stupid. WBTB is only for certain people who are heavy sleepers, and even then that's not how it's done. You've totally misunderstood the purpose of WBTB.

Two, how are you getting 3 attempts per day? You're burning yourself out. Stick to 1 attempt per day, and take a few days off every once in a while. No need to be obsessive.

Three, you said that a couple times you actually got vibrations, so what's the problem? Now all you need is lots of practice (but not obsessively!).

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Originally Posted by cmind

Ok, a few things.

One, don't get out of bed at 4 am. That's just stupid. WBTB is only for certain people who are heavy sleepers, and even then that's not how it's done. You've totally misunderstood the purpose of WBTB.

Two, how are you getting 3 attempts per day? You're burning yourself out. Stick to 1 attempt per day, and take a few days off every once in a while. No need to be obsessive.

Three, you said that a couple times you actually got vibrations, so what's the problem? Now all you need is lots of practice (but not obsessively!).

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How do i not get out of bed if i have to go to the bathroom. i naturally wake up at 4?

I consider myself a heavy sleeper.

I get 3 attempts per day because i average around 4 dreams per day. Ever since ive been using autosuggestion. I keep waking up after my dreams end. Its not like im purposely doing it. It just happens and i remember to attempt them. If nothing happens within a couple of minutes. I just fall back asleep

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Originally Posted by xpin2winx

How do i not get out of bed if i have to go to the bathroom. i naturally wake up at 4?

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You could try not getting up. Sometimes you think you have to pee but you can fall back asleep and not pee for another 6 hours, that's totally normal.

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Originally Posted by xpin2winx

I consider myself a heavy sleeper. ...I keep waking up after my dreams end.

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What's your definition of heavy sleeper then, because you're clearly not a heavy sleeper if you wake up several times during the night. So I'll be as clear as I possibly can be: WBTB is for people who are such heavy sleepers that they have trouble waking up. If you're like any normal person and you can wake up instantly after a dream, then WBTB does not apply to you.

As for attempting DEILD after every single dream, just don't do it. I know you can do it, but don't do it. It's like masturbating; it feels good but that doesn't mean you do it 15 times a day.

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Originally Posted by cmind

You could try not getting up. Sometimes you think you have to pee but you can fall back asleep and not pee for another 6 hours, that's totally normal.



What's your definition of heavy sleeper then, because you're clearly not a heavy sleeper if you wake up several times during the night. So I'll be as clear as I possibly can be: WBTB is for people who are such heavy sleepers that they have trouble waking up. If you're like any normal person and you can wake up instantly after a dream, then WBTB does not apply to you.

As for attempting DEILD after every single dream, just don't do it. I know you can do it, but don't do it. It's like masturbating; it feels good but that doesn't mean you do it 15 times a day.

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im a heavy sleeper because i can sleep through loud noises. I tried the salt cube timer method last night and slept through six alarms at almost full volume with earphones in.

If you have to get up to use the bathroom, nothing wrong with trying a WBTB/WILD. At least it puts your mind into the right frame. Just remember, you have to fall back to sleep.

And if you want to try to DEILD on every waking, that's fine, just don't get discouraged. And don't get too worried about it like 'Oh I'm awake! Don't move! Ok what was that dream...?' There's a transition stage and you don't want to come too far up with too much thinking or your mind won't be inclined to go back to sleep.

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Originally Posted by xpin2winx

im a heavy sleeper because i can sleep through loud noises. I tried the salt cube timer method last night and slept through six alarms at almost full volume with earphones in.

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That was most likely in deep sleep. That's not really related to lucid dreaming. I'll try to be even more clear. WBTB is for people who, when they wake up, are still so groggy that they can't even get lucid. Their mind is still asleep, even when their body is awake. Basically sleepwalkers. That's who needs WBTB.

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Originally Posted by xpin2winx

...Most people would say if you can do this, you should be able to DEILD no problem

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Anyone who says '...if you can do this, you should be able to DEILD no problem' is either a natural lucid dreamer or an expert at BS. There is no sure and fast way to attain a lucid dream on command. Personally I would add visualization of your previous dreams to your routine to increase your chances but what works for you can only be discovered by you. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by faceonmars

Anyone who says '...if you can do this, you should be able to DEILD no problem' is either a natural lucid dreamer or an expert at BS. There is no sure and fast way to attain a lucid dream on command. Personally I would add visualization of your previous dreams to your routine to increase your chances but what works for you can only be discovered by you. Good luck!

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Yep it ultimately takes a good few months (or even years) of solid practice to really get a feel for it and create your own skill set.

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Originally Posted by cmind

That was most likely in deep sleep. That's not really related to lucid dreaming. I'll try to be even more clear. WBTB is for people who, when they wake up, are still so groggy that they can't even get lucid. Their mind is still asleep, even when their body is awake. Basically sleepwalkers. That's who needs WBTB.

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Hmmm, I think you have misunderstood WBTB. Most memebers who refer to WBTB are talking about a WILD attempt. Due to the fact that REM sleep is unlikely in the first hour of sleep WILD is very hard at bedtime; you end up needing to stay aware in a trance state for over an hour. WBTB is not just for heavy sleepers. The idea is to wake up during a time when you are likely about to enter REM. The point in getting up and spending time out of bed, is so that you can actually complete a WILD. If you drift back into sleep without reaching the dream trance state, you have failed. the chance of drifting back to sleep is too high if you do not wake yourself up a little first.
This is different than DEILD. That is similar, but because you do not arose yourself fully, it has a high failure rate; you are very likely to actually fall almost instantly into normal sleep. DEILD is still about your best bet, because you are almost 100% of the time going back into an REM cycle.
I have heard some members refer to using WBTB as a method for DILDs and I am not exactly sure why they would do this. In any event, clearly WBTB has no place in DEILD where you must get your body to fall asleep very fast, while maintaining enough awareness to be lucid.