Almost done FILD, help me!

[Kuyarei]

I've been trying to FILD for a long time. but when i wake up to do it, i can't do it. i feel awake when i try to do the finger trick but when i let go i fall asleep. the point is, how do i know if i have reached the sleep state so i can do it?

[EasternSand]

This is a pretty common problem, I've been struggling with it as well. The trick is to relax first, but not let your mind wander away. As soon as you feel really relaxed and close to sleep, you should start moving your fingers. You can't exactly tell wether you're falling asleep now or not, but you can tell if you're close. If you think you'll fall asleep early, just start moving your fingers earlier. It's better to fail a RC to try again than falling asleep and waking up in disappointment.

[Kuyarei]

This is a pretty common problem, I've been struggling with it as well. The trick is to relax first, but not let your mind wander away. As soon as you feel really relaxed and close to sleep, you should start moving your fingers. You can't exactly tell wether you're falling asleep now or not, but you can tell if you're close. If you think you'll fall asleep early, just start moving your fingers earlier. It's better to fail a RC to try again than falling asleep and waking up in disappointment. Well, i'm thinking of making it 4 hours instead of 5. to make myself more tired. other than that, i really dont know. but i will try and see if i become tired, if that happened i will just move my fingers directly. but thanks for the help

[EasternSand]

Well, i'm thinking of making it 4 hours instead of 5. to make myself more tired. You might want to wake up in a REM stage. Try waking up after 6 hours. When you wake up in a REM state, you will most probably feel more tired and disoriented (sleepy, not fully awake, but conscious enough to pull off a FILD) and therefore you will almost instantly fall asleep again, which FILD is pointed at. This might help your alarm timing: 03sleepstagesonenight.jpg If you don't wake up in a REM state, you can still fall asleep easily with sufficient relaxation. Just don't be too late to move your fingers before you fall asleep

[Kuyarei]

You might want to wake up in a REM stage. Try waking up after 6 hours. When you wake up in a REM state, you will most probably feel more tired and disoriented (sleepy, not fully awake, but conscious enough to pull off a FILD) and therefore you will almost instantly fall asleep again, which FILD is pointed at. This might help your alarm timing: 03sleepstagesonenight.jpg If you don't wake up in a REM state, you can still fall asleep easily with sufficient relaxation. Just don't be too late to move your fingers before you fall asleep I Didn't understand the attachment you have provided. but what if i run out of sleep and wake up? i realize that when someone forces me awake i feel the urge to go back to sleep, can i do it under 6 hours and still have a lengthy lucid dream?

[EasternSand]

Let me try to explain the attachment. Sleep is divided into several stages, with REM (Rapid Eye Movement) being one of them. This is where your dreams are the most vivid ones, and where you're most likely to remember your dreams from. Also, if you wake up from a REM stage, you will most likely fall asleep really fast, as I said. Look at the picture, it displays the time in hours on the horizontal axis and the sleeping stage in the vertical axis. Try to wake up at the last (and longest) stage of REM. It's between 5 and 6 hours of sleep. And of course, you might have different bed-times, but try to base your timing on this graph. Don't hesitate to ask if you still don't understand it. And yes, you can wake up within 6 hours of sleep, but the REM stages aren't that lengthy then. But if you think you really have to wake up earlier, then do it, but your success rate can decrease. Just look at the graph and plan your alarm time. Always remember, even if you don't wake up in REM, you can still trigger a FILD. Good luck!

[EasternSand]

I'm just trying to help you with waking up in REM to increase the chance of success with a FILD. That's why I'm explaining all this. I just usually can't do a FILD when I wake up in a nREM state. I just proceed with WILD which almost always succeeds then. I've understood you're only trying to FILD and that's why you should wake up in REM. Don't be afraid to fail, if you expect it to fail, you most likely will. And by the way, no problem man, I'm happy to help and guide you with it.

[Sensei]

When it comes to WILD forms (DEILD, FILD, etc), the time that you do it are extremely important. You said that you are thinking of changing the time, and I would recommend changing the time every week or two. The timing is what it really important. After you get that, you should be able to "feel" the right state of sleep that you are trying to get into. Just reverse what just happened. A lot easier if you are coming out of an extremely vivid or lucid dream, and then just fall back to sleep, this time (with FILD) you make sure that you vaguely think about your fingers while drifting, as an anchor. I would recommend a mental anchor (like a mantra of any sorts, a thought, sound, picture, poem, or anything really) because moving your fingers often will give you too much thought on that. There are a lot of people that do it, but most people have to find their own anchor. The REM chart provided is very good for picking times, but it is different depending on the person and the time, it is just an average for the average person. If you don't get enough sleep at night or don't have a consistent sleep schedule, then it doesn't matter when you get up because it will just randomly work anyways. REM changes depending on all factors that effect sleep, so consistency is very important when doing a WILD of any form. Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Kuyarei]

The timing is what it really important. After you get that, you should be able to "feel" the right state of sleep that you are trying to get into. Just reverse what just happened. A lot easier if you are coming out of an extremely vivid or lucid dream, and then just fall back to sleep, this time (with FILD) you make sure that you vaguely think about your fingers while drifting, as an anchor. I would recommend a mental anchor (like a mantra of any sorts, a thought, sound, picture, poem, or anything really) because moving your fingers often will give you too much thought on that. There are a lot of people that do it, but most people have to find their own anchor. Hope this helps. Good luck! I Have tried a certain time today, i was sleepy. but i woke myself up from thinking. it is that i can't go to sleep while thinking about the technique, i think you solved that with the anchor. you vaguely think about your fingers while drifting, as an anchor. I would recommend a mental anchor (like a mantra of any sorts, a thought, sound, picture, poem, or anything really) because moving your fingers often will give you too much thought on that. There are a lot of people that do it, but most people have to find their own anchor. What does vaguely mean? and what do you mean anchor? is it something i think about while doing the technique? Sorry for this, i just can't make it work normally. i didn't know about the anchor until you said it. anyway though, thanks for helping.

[Scionox]

I am not really into FILD, but to add to what BrandonBoss said, i don't think you are supposed to do movement physically during FILD, focusing on physical waking body is not the aim of WILD(and based techniques), so instead try visualizing movement mentally without thinking about physical body. I hope that helps. As for what anchor is, anchor is what you are focused on mentally while WILDing to keep awareness, be it mantra, visualization, count, and so on, which anchor works best varies from person to person and it's always good to try different one if you have problem with current one. Also check out this tutorial for some good information on lucid dreaming and WILD, which can help with WILD-based techniques too: http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/

[EasternSand]

The whole point of FILD is that you move your finger. Even with moving your finger you fall asleep within a minute, at least that's the goal. Just saying that not moving your finger would ruin the whole point of the technique.