Thread: Are you able to WILD without falling to sleep?

You dont have to sleep before a WILD. Just relax...you can day dream if you want

During the last week, I've noticed that I wake up automatically at four, every night. I just forget about it in the morning - unless I intend to WILD.

If I do intend to WILD, I will realise that It's time to get started, and away I'll go.

So, if you really put your mind to it, you should wake up by yourself.

Originally posted by Xei
If you really put your mind to it, you should wake up by yourself.

Same here. If I really want to wake up during the night, I will wake up during the night, without alarmclock. Exactly (well... almost exactly) four and a half hours after falling asleep.

A WILD, is a Wake initiated lucid dream. For all intent purposed you would normally go from a waking state to a dream state. So yes. You don't really fall asleep per say. You may go through a hypnagogic period of scenes or sounds. Or you may initiate this mnemonically.

Sure you can go directly into a lucid dream without first falling asleep. You will probably notice that it will be much more difficult than doing it after waking up, but it is still possible. I've done it a few times.

I wonder how does it work... As we know the sleep cycle begins with NREM stages first time you fall asleep at night, when you successfully intiate WILD at that time, do you just "skip" it and go to REM first, or are those dreams happening in NREM?

Originally posted by jhk
I wonder how does it work... As we know the sleep cycle begins with NREM stages first time you fall asleep at night, when you successfully intiate WILD at that time, do you just \"skip\" it and go to REM first, or are those dreams happening in NREM?

Another good question.
Do we force REM. I really doubt it.
But rather does a lucid dream have to be in the REM stage? After all a lot of the trechniques are more or less forced for lack of a better word. induced. that's better.

IN the Book ETWOLD, Stephen LaBerge proved lucid dreaming by predetermining that he would move his eyes in a systematic movement to show he was in a dream. But I believe the EEG machines showed he was in REM. And when you are in REM your eyes generally move back and forth.
Was he over riding this natural response?
If he was, what other physical, involuntary actions could we override?
This brings about many questions!

[quote]IN the Book ETWOLD, Stephen LaBerge proved lucid dreaming by predetermining that he would move his eyes in a systematic movement to show he was in a dream. But I believe the EEG machines showed he was in REM. And when you are in REM your eyes generally move back and forth.
I believe that in REM your eyes don't just move randomly back and forth, but rather follow your dream eyes, so if he wanted to move his real eyes from left to right, he would just move them like that in a dream. A proof to this may be sleep paralysis, when it happens you can't move anything but your eyes. Sleep paralysis prevents you acting out what you are doing in a dream, except for the eyes where it doesn't really matter so they aren't paralyzed and do act your dreams out. So I don't think he was overriding anything. I also remember reading about an experiment where lucid dreamer was comunicating with the scientists by moving his eyes. Basically they could ask him something, he would hear it in a dream and respond "yes" by moving eyes vertically or "no" by moving them horizontally.

But I'm more interested in knowing whether these bedtime WILDs happen in REM or NREM. I read that dreams can also happen in NREM, but that they are far less vivid. If normal dreams can, lucid dreams surely can too, so this is a possibility.
But during a nap you go straight to REM, perhaps you can fool your mind at night to go to REM right away like during a nap? This might be possible too.

It would be great if someone who can induce bedtime WILD compared them with WBTB WILDs, if they are less vivid etc.

I don't believe I have had a chance to welcome you...so WELCOME jhk!

Originally posted by jhk+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhk)</div>

I believe that in REM your eyes don't just move randomly back and forth, but rather follow your dream eyes, so if he wanted to move his real eyes from left to right, he would just move them like that in a dream. [/b]

Very good point ..Thanks!

<!--QuoteBegin-jhk
But I'm more interested in knowing whether these bedtime WILDs happen in REM or NREM. I read that dreams can also happen in NREM, but that they are far less vivid. If normal dreams can, lucid dreams surely can too, so this is a possibility.
But during a nap you go straight to REM, perhaps you can fool your mind at night to go to REM right away like during a nap? This might be possible too.

It would be great if someone who can induce bedtime WILD compared them with WBTB WILDs, if they are less vivid etc.

ME TOO

Originally posted by jhk

But during a nap you go straight to REM, perhaps you can fool your mind at night to go to REM right away like during a nap?

Is this a fact?

Originally posted by StickFigure
Is this a fact?

That you go to REM fast when napping? I believe so. Perhaps not right away, but it is much faster than at night. A lot of people say that the WILD technique is very effective for them combined with naps, faster REM means easier dreaming.

Ive been able to wake my self up from a dream by blinking my eyes as hard as i could, and one time when i opened then I saw my ceiling(I used to do this alot, pretty much anytime i realized i was dreaming, when i was a kid that is)

And more recently once i accidently somehow opened one of my eyes and saw half o my ceiling and the other half was still a dream(I believe that to have actually happened, not just a sort of FA) but so I closed my eye quick and tried to hold onto it, but the damage was done and I slowly fell out of the dream

lol! Fascinating experience, Awhislyle

Is this a fact?[/b]

To my knowledge, yes.
In practice, definitely.
Haven't you ever tried napping on a nice day, middle of the day, and found yourself full of dreams?

By the way, I'm practicing polyphasic sleep, which entails I only nap, and never sleep.
That's 6x25mins sleep per day.
So far, I can tell that I'm dreaming a lot, but struggling to recall the dream itself for some reason.

I believe it has something to do with the higher amount of activity in the brain..thus the attention/awareness needed for wild or even mild should keep your mind active enough to pass into REM instead of deep sleep from the get go. Dont quote me on this as I couldnt find a proven answer but believe thats how it works.

Originally posted by Awhislyle

And more recently once i accidently somehow opened one of my eyes and saw half o my ceiling and the other half was still a dream(I believe that to have actually happened, not just a sort of FA) but so I closed my eye quick and tried to hold onto it, but the damage was done and I slowly fell out of the dream

This has happened to me also, pretty wierd, but I wake up like in 5 seconds from realizing this. Its weird but if you try to open your eyes to hard in a dream, you will eventually open them for real, and wake up, I have never been able to keep the dreaming state when this happens.

if anyone has actually initiated a dream right before sleep then how did you? just a normal WILD or what?

Originally posted by BillyBob_001
if anyone has actually initiated a dream right before sleep then how did you? just a normal WILD or what?

I use the -->

[quote]I use the -->
Second that. The only time I've gone from just before sleep directly into an LD was unintentional and was basically the HIT. I was aware that moments before I was lying in my bed and now suddenly all of those flitting scenes and thoughts had resolved into a fully-formed ice tunnel. It was pretty damn cool, esp. since all of my lucids up until that point had been realized mid-dream.

Originally posted by Awhislyle
Ive been able to wake my self up from a dream by blinking my eyes as hard as i could, and one time when i opened then I saw my ceiling(I used to do this alot, pretty much anytime i realized i was dreaming, when i was a kid that is)

I used to do that too, expect I'd open my eyes as wide as I could (is this what you meant?). I assume I opened my 'dream' eyes enough that my 'real' eyes opened a little - enough to awaken me.

Now, it doesn't work. Instead, for some reason, I do the sign of teh cross to wake up (strange) when in a disturbing dream. I gotta learn to control those situations and have myself a lucid experience instead of wussying out every time.

It seems to only time I know I'm in a lucid dream (for the past year or two) is when something scary happens (zombies, falling form a building and not wanting to hit the ground, etc).

[quote]

I use the -->

ty howetzer

i tried HIT last night, had a very light LD, slept directly after so i only remember a tiny tiny bit of it, (all i remember is thinking how my room looked browner than usual) took me like 3 hrs to get into the LD though... also i kept seeing scenes from years past, i influenced these a little and i was able to see pictures of peoples faces, the house where i spent my childhood , and other random things like my first teachers face
anyway im gonna do this every night it was very weird to see memories like that (and really nice)

cool deal billybob I am glad it worked.
Hypnagogic images are a wonderful thing, they can manifest scenes and emotions before you technically enter into sleep.
They can add as much insight as a lucid dream. Of coarse a lucid dream is when you gain the control aspect.
Keep us updated on your progress

* + HAPPY NEW YEAR