Thread: Entering Lucids while emersed in Ganzfeld

Hi Phoen:

We are telepathically sharing ideas. The EXACT idea occurred to me about a week ago. Basically, I think that most people are trying to lucid dream at the WRONG time of day -- at night, and repeatedly fail because of the low level of neurotransmitters in the sleeping brain.

LaBerge and other advanced lucid dreamers such as Hearne have commented that lucid dreaming is easiest and most intense during daytime naps. I do not fall asleep during daytime naps so I never considered this a viable approach. However, about a week ago it occurred to me that using brainwave entrainment (including Ganzfeld) to induce a low theta or delta state would produce hypnogogic imagery and facilitate lucid dreaming in what is basically a daytime WILD.

In fact, I have been trying to do the experiment myself for about a week but am delayed due to domestic turmoil (wife and 3 teenage kids) and rebuilding my computer. Rather than Ganzfeld ping-pong balls, it may be better to use a light-blocking mask to allow the hypnogogic imagery to manifest in darkeness. My current thinking is to induce a 3 Hz delta state and modulate it with an alpha or beta wave.

Yes, great minds do think alike, HAHAAHH! I would need to research on the difference in using blackness versus bright lights. I'm not sure what the relevance is with the bright solid wall of light.

Let's keep posting our results on this thread. Thanks!

Now that I'm done with the Calea tea experiments, I'm going to focus on the Ganzfeld testing. I'll start posting here.

wait, so its actually easier during the day!!?!??! holy crap, i take naps like everyday but never attempted WILD during a nap, i only do it at night lol. During the day theres always light in my eyes and it gets bright behind my eyelids so i never thought it could work.

It's true, I take an afternoon nap once or twice a week and everytime I do, I have Supervivid dreams.

Daytime WILDs may be the best way to go. Think about it, neurotransmitter levels are much higher during the day than during the night. For people who can't fall asleep while napping during the day, brainwave entrainment (plus Ganzfeld) may provide a means of entry to the LD state... Worth looking into.

I dont know if using an audio file to assist in entering with Ganzfeld environment. I dont want to affect the true state which is a light field and white noise/ sine htz etc. I'll probably try with out the audio trigger.

Agreed. Keep things simple. My feeling is that it is better not to use Ganzfeld goggles. The reason is because LDs are formed from memory, not visual stimuli from the eyes. So if you are inputting bright light, it may interfere with image formation from memory, which provides a much weaker signal than sensory stimulation.

What I suggest is go down to perhaps 3 Hz then slowly ramp back and forth between 3 Hz and 7 Hz, see if any particular frequency stimulates hypnogogic imagery. I tried this last year a few times and got quite a bit of hypnogogic imagery. I believe this is similar to the way brainwave entrainment or light sound machines are used for "remote viewing". Maybe if you Google "remote viewing" with "brainwave entrainment" it will provide some good leads.

In the short testing I did, eventually my eyes dis-regarded the wall of light and I started seeing dream images pretty quickly. Although I do plan to do some remote viewing (or dream vision) testing, it's not the purpose of this test.

I'm only using the goggles & sound to sort of replicate the Ganzfeld environment (i.e. sound and visual stimuli). From what I've seen I've been able to get HI's from this state, although I've never completely entered a lucid, which is the challenge!
I'll keep you posted!

Hey phoenelai I didn't get what the Ganzfeld googles were Could you explain me in detail please? This experiment sounds good keep posting results

Hi all,

I'd just like to make a comment with regards to day vs night LD entry.

At night, the imagery occurs regardless of whether you attempt to induce it or not. As you know, you have several dreams per night. The DILD method is all about recognising being in that state. As someone who can enter the state at will, I can still find night time induction a bit too hit-and-miss. Even if you have a lucid dream, because the night is so long, you can easily forget it...or forget so much of it that you can't fully appreciate the experience. Your dream recall has to be excellent.

Daytime is much more fun for the simple fact that once you're in, you're in. Once you have the ability to visualise an immersive enviornment and be able to interact with it, what more do you need to have lucid dreams? Also, you're less likely to be distracted by dream content and lose the thread that you are dreaming. The duration of the LD is also increased and you're less likely to be surprised out of the dream...like you are using the DILD method.

Reality testing, improving dream recall, setting alarms for 4 AM, WBTB....although useful, are highly impractical for people who have other life commitments. In essence, life just gets in the way of the practice...as I'm sure Zen Vortex will tell you (wife, 3 kids - FYI, I'm not saying they're a burden!!).

One of the main incentives for us to develop EVT was that we disagreed with the idea that by doing all these things, these rituals, you would regain the 7 / 8 hours lost during sleep. If you're having to spend your entire waking day thinking about and doing practices for lucid dreaming, in the chance that you MIGHT gain 8 hours of your life (and that's not even true, you only really gain the REM periods...although I take onboard that you can dream outside it)...............my question is: have you really made a gain??

I'm glad you're all looking for a daytime method.....and a FAST one.

I wish you all the very best of luck.

Best regards,

Luigi

Originally posted by baronbrocoli
Hey phoenelai I didn't get what the Ganzfeld googles were Could you explain me in detail please? This experiment sounds good keep posting results

Ganzfeld are not goggles; but an experiment. Test subjects would cover thier eyes with half ping pong balls (creates a white field) and wear headphones listening to white or pink noise. With that being said, I'm just using sensory deprivation (light goggles and headphones w/white noise) to try to enter the lucid state.

(from Wikipedia)

The ganzfeld ("total field") experiment uses audio and visual sensory deprivation to test for extra-sensory perception (ESP).
There are claims that this experiment yields results that deviate significantly from randomness, and represent some of the strongest experimental evidence for psi phenomena to date. As with all purported psi phenomena, these claims are highly controversial within science in general and even within parapsychology. The debate is well-documented in parapsychology journals and in articles such as those referred to below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld

Phoenelai thank you for the information, I would love to read the results of your experiments. As for this I will probably try it tomorrow. I will post my results.

I used BrainWave generator to try to WILD in the afternoon. I was using noise cancelling headphones and a sleep mask to avoid light. I used the preset for Sleep Induction 1(general) and apparently it's very useful for WILDing. After some twenty minutes of listening to the file with visual deprivation, I started to get some strong vibrations and the beggining of HI (the flashes and that). I also felt numbness on my feet and arms, and my arms were really heavy(SP, I guess?).

After some other 5 minutes the sound just turned off(i did not mean this so it stopped my progress). Vibrations got weaker and HI stopped so I got out of bed.

I hope this helps your reaserch

I'm curious how many of us who have had successful daytime lucid dreams have also individually ingested caffeine at some point before taking one of these productive naps.

It occurs to me that simply having a lighter-than-normal setting, as is what happens most often in daylight naps, in addition with the heightened levels of neurotransmitter and brain activity brought on by both caffeine and having just been active whether at work or school, etc, may lend to the acquisition of the prime and desired environment in the brain as a preset template for lucid dreaming. On any occasion where I have taken daylight naps after having coffe-a-plenty, I've most often dreamed insanely well and with the frequent LD thrown in. Indeed, the best LDs I've had occurred under these daylight circumcstances.

I've made posts about this tactic before, and some variations are more grueling than others, but I believe them to be efficacious and worth the investment of time.

Excellent insight, Torcher. I have heard several reports that a low dose of caffeine is an effective LD stimulator.

Well I tried again to WILD while in Ganzfield using the same setting(brainwave and sensory deprivation). I managed to get vibrations but could not even get HI nor SP I was quite tired and I could have get asleep pretty easily, but I did not manage to get even close

After I got up I felt refreshed and not tired anymore. My senses had increased .I could percieve different tones of light in my room and tones of colour that I didn't see before trying to WILD. Also my hearing increased and my touch as well. Now it's all back to normal.

what I did was the following:
set brainwave at sleep aid(general) to set my brain frequency to about 3Hz, and then mantained it there for a while.
I just lay on my bed listening to the waves and I got my body vibrating. The vibrations started about 20 minutes after the file I believe. But there was no HI I could concentrate on so I just kept listening. I daydreamed a bit and then felt like there was some heavy weight on my arms. After this i just layed there but I got no further. I finally gave up and I checked how long it had been. BrainWave Generator said that I had been there for an hour and 6 minutes.

Was this weight on my arms the start of SP?
Also any tips for my WILD? I'd really like to refine my technique and I'll try WILD with a WBTB tonight to see how it goes.

I hope I'm helping on the reasearch and that someone can answer my questions

Originally posted by baronbrocoli
Well I tried again to WILD while in Ganzfield using the same setting(brainwave and sensory deprivation). I managed to get vibrations but could not even get HI nor SP I was quite tired and I could have get asleep pretty easily, but I did not manage to get even close

After I got up I felt refreshed and not tired anymore. My senses had increased .I could percieve different tones of light in my room and tones of colour that I didn't see before trying to WILD. Also my hearing increased and my touch as well. Now it's all back to normal.

what I did was the following:
set brainwave at sleep aid(general) to set my brain frequency to about 3Hz, and then mantained it there for a while.
I just lay on my bed listening to the waves and I got my body vibrating. The vibrations started about 20 minutes after the file I believe. But there was no HI I could concentrate on so I just kept listening. I daydreamed a bit and then felt like there was some heavy weight on my arms. After this i just layed there but I got no further. I finally gave up and I checked how long it had been. BrainWave Generator said that I had been there for an hour and 6 minutes.

Was this weight on my arms the start of SP?
Also any tips for my WILD? I'd really like to refine my technique and I'll try WILD with a WBTB tonight to see how it goes.

I hope I'm helping on the reasearch and that someone can answer my questions

I just try to focus on the HI's when I return to sleep. They usually carry me into the next dreamscene which I'm lucid right then and there.

I probably have to wait and relax some more to get HI because i haven't even had SP
I have read and I understand the techniques but I haven't been able to get HI only HS. I PM'd you about it, hope you can give me some more advice

Hi Baron:

Interesting stuff you are doing. I have Brainwave Generator but don't use it anymore. Instead, I use Brain Sound Studio from Transparent corporation, which provides many better ways of modulating a carrier wave in addition to binaural beats. I highly recommend this program, easier to use and you can do more with it.

I like the idea of settling into a 3 Hz wave and using it as a springboard for other things, for example, a short burst of theta, alpha, or beta. Alternatively, one could mix a theta, alpha, or beta wave with the 3 Hz wave. There's a lot of room for experimentation here. I'm currently very busy on other projects but this is near the top of my list.

Should this get moved to the Research Team Board? I have a link there for this currently.

I agree with the idea you should have this moved to the reasearch board. As ZenVortex said, we do have a lot of room for experimentation, for instance we could find out in which frequency mixed with what kind of waves Hipnagogic Imagery manifests faster and clearer
I'm off for today but I will experiment some more tomorrow for sure

We'll need to have a moderator close this and we can continue to post here in research:


http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22687

Review my latest session. Moved the Post here:

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic....p=302163#302163