Thread: The Noninduction Technique

This seems like a very difficult technique to use, in that it's not such a strict step by step method as most others are, and the actual aim may be difficult to achieve. It does ring true to me, though, as I've had lots of experiences in the past when I've had a dry spell, then just decided to forget about LDing for a night, and amazingly, had an LD that night! It's worth a try, and seeing as I'm havign a dry spell right now, I'll try it tonight.

Originally Posted by Ev

Here's a technique that is very simple, yet very weird and effective.

I've noticed that after having a great lucid dream I want more of them. (well, duh! ) My interest in them peaks, I visit these forums, read, answer questions, etc. My excitement about LDs build up. I go to sleep and use autosuggestion like "I will have a lucid dream tonight". I'm excited about going to sleep.

What usually follows is a dry spell. All this excitement and effort to have another LD seems wasted.

This was until I discovered this technique that is very effective in releasing this energy and effort and actually having a great LDs that reward all the effort you put into LDing.

Here's the technique, it's simple and it works best after a scenario similar to the one described above:

Go to bed, clear your mind. DO NOT THINK about lucid dreaming. DO NOT even say the word lucid dreaming in your head. DO NOT think about dreams or expect anything (if you are actually expecting the LD to happen you are very likely to fail). This "not thinking" is VERY different from completely forgetting about lucid dreaming. You dont think about it yet acknowledge its existence. You acknowledge that you are actually using a technique, but dont think about the technique. You are just going to sleep putting all concern about lucid dreaming, induction techniques, suggestions you usually use, in the back of your mind. They exist but you dont think about them. You are aware of their existence but you do not think about them.
Your mind is free of excitement or expectations.
(Sorry for redundancy, but I have to make this clear).

It's safe to feel confidence in the technique. Everything else must be put aside.

Earlier I used a model that still applies - when you read about LDing you wind up your inner LD spring. As long as you keep winding it up you wont have LDs, but when you use this technique to unwind you will get LDs.

What happens later that night is you have a lucid dream. Usually it is a dream induced LD, but variations occur.

I've used this technique for a few nights in a row. The first couple nights is pretty easy as you just put your faith in the technique. After that, especially if you are successful expectations start to surface and they are bad. Replacing them with confidence and thinking about what you want to do in a LD during the day works well to counter that.
Enjoy and please post here if you have success with this technique.
[/b]

Yeah I have experienced that, while Attempting WILD, notpaying too much thought an Desire on Lucid Dreaming, or ANY thoughts.

I find this Non-thinking ''blankness'' in my Mind the Best and Clearest state to stay Concious while falling asleep. And while I have not yet suceeded to stay concious all the way into dreamland I am sure I'm about to be there soon.

This technique seems valid enough, but whenever I epty my mind, I tend to become a black hole that sucks in everything around me (mostly sounds and visuals). So I was wondering, if by substituting thought with listening, do you think the technique will still work?

Originally Posted by towarmforacoat

This technique seems valid enough, but whenever I epty my mind, I tend to become a black hole that sucks in everything around me (mostly sounds and visuals). So I was wondering, if by substituting thought with listening, do you think the technique will still work?
[/b]

Yeah, all you have to do is not think about lucid dreaming. Your goal would be to fall asleep as fast as possible so you wont try suggestions, think about LDing or plan for the LD ahead.

Originally Posted by Ev

Yeah, all you have to do is not think about lucid dreaming. Your goal would be to fall asleep as fast as possible so you wont try suggestions, think about LDing or plan for the LD ahead.
[/b]

this sounds cool. for the past nights ive beeen focusing on lding all the time but getting dreams i cannot go lucid in. Im trying to have my first and ive started doing reality checks in real life now, I also think about what ill do when I go lucid throughout the day. i try and do this technique tonight.

I've done this before after about 2 months of having a dry spell, I went 2 days without thinking about it and had a Lucid.

I experience this a lot. Just as you say Ev, after I have a lucid dream I get super psyched and super interested and put a lot of effort into it. For my trouble I get almost no results, though I have succeeded a couple of times. Usually after 2-3 days of trying when I go to bed I'll be like "Screw it, I'm just gonna go to sleep without thinking about it and without trying" BOOM! Lucid dream. Works like 75% of the time. So I got to thinking, if not focusing on it so much works maybe I should just not try so hard. That didn't work either heh. It seems to be the focusing hard on it and then the finally giving up and deciding to "let it happen" when it will works best for me. The thing is with this realization comes a paradox. Knowing that not thinking about it may cause you to have a lucid dream, causes you to think about it. Thinking "I'm going to go to bed tonight and am not gonna even think about lucid dreaming (which will probably cause me to have a lucid dream)" causes you to think about it. It does me anyway. It's only when I truly feel "OK this isn't working I am just gonna have to wait for another lucid dream to happen" that it results in success. It's a tricky process.

This is a great technique. It has been suggested a bunch of times before (probably by you), but it is nice to see it in a tutorialistic manner. I have used it a couple times and it worked once. The LD itself wasn't very interesting, but it did work. The only problem I have found with this technique is that if you are trying to not think about how much you want to LD, you often end up thinking about it more causing it to fail, but occasionally this not thinking/trying to LD does work if done well.

I just had a lucid dream a few days ago. I tried your technique Ev, and I had another! It was only like 5 seconds though.

I can see how this could possibly work very effectivley. I think its probably the same with dream recall - because of late i've been so intent on trying to remember my dreams, but when i wake up i'm blank and have to scrape my mind for fragments. Then last night i got sick of trying so hard and didn't think about it, and had quite good recall when i woke up. Shame i couldn't find my pen xD

It's like the paradox of 'he who "gives away" (at least mentally) all of his possesions, then he will have 'everything' in the world...

It's a paradox...I love these things(paradoxes)....

This actually does work with me, only when I become lucid, since I havent really thought about it, I dont remember to stop and clarify the dream and become more lucid, I usually just have a mid length low level lucid dream...

same here.

I am gonna try it. I've been having a dryspell lately (no LDs in 3 weeks) and I've been foccusing a lot on it, so here goes

Thanks

im going to try this technique tonight

I think I might try this, I haven't had a LD in 7 days, I know thats not super long, but it's killing me inside.
So, maybe I am too wound up for it already and need to wind down.

Come to think of it... No Dream Recall what so ever in the last 6 days!

I hope I can not think, I've always had trouble with not thinking about something.

This concept has it has given me like 5 DILDs, totally unaware that there was any technique like this at all, but I've been doing just like you say. I find it pretty strange that it actually works, any idea why?

Originally Posted by Ev

Go to bed, clear your mind. DO NOT THINK about lucid dreaming. DO NOT even say the word lucid dreaming in your head. DO NOT think about dreams or expect anything (if you are actually expecting the LD to happen you are very likely to fail).[/b]

But HOW do you NOT THINK about and NOT EXPECT what you are trying to achieve?

This is like the joke: Don't think about the purple elephant. When someone says that I immediately see a purple elephant in my mind. Even if you don't imagine it, don't you have to think about not thinking about it, which defeats the purpose, because your are thinking about it?

Furthermore, how can you practice a technique, and not expect any results. That's the whole point of not expecting. So underneath this not expecting, isn't there really a part of you that is expecting not expecting to give you the results you want?

Maybe this is just a personal problem of mine. Lately (especially since I started trying to WILD in the mornings), I've had trouble falling asleep. To just fall asleep, you have to somewhere along the line become unconscious--you have to let your mind ramble on without being aware of it. But, because I can't stop being aware of everything that I'm thinking, I have a hard time falling asleep. And if I try not to be aware, I am simply being aware of trying to not be aware. And if I think to myself that I can't try to not be aware, I just have to let go, then I think about letting go, and as a result, I can't let go. This goes on for hours.

Suggestions anyone?

-LUX

This makes sense. There are some psycological theories that suggest that we experience in our dreams stuff that we repress in reality.

so during the day i think about ld, and during the night i focus on falling asleep ASAP?

Originally Posted by LuxAeterna

But HOW do you NOT THINK about and NOT EXPECT what you are trying to achieve?[/b]

That is my problem too in using this technique. I succeeded in it one time, but the other times I have that underlying thought and expectation of expecting it to work, and it of course doesn't work because I also have the expectation that if I think about it and expect it to work it will not. Is there a bridge around this problem that makes this technique feasible for repeated use?

Here's something I posted in another thread about this technique.

Originally Posted by Ev

This is very interesting. Today I was watching a TV special on the life of Buddha. Among other things it mentioned one of the revelations that Buddha had on his jorney - he was watching a man tune his string instrument. If he let the string hang too loose there would be no sound. If he tightened it too much the string would snap. The harmony lied in the middle. Pretty much Buddha applied this concept to his search for truth and meditation techniques - he called it "the middle way" and was very successful.

When I heard this I immidiately thought of the Noninduction technique. This is exactly what I was trying to explain - dont let your mind forget about the LDing and dont stress over it and calm your expectations... Kinda like the "middle way".
What is even more weird is that I stumbled upon this technique by chance and apparently it been known for 2500 years... This might prove that there are fundamental processes in the mind that are the same for all/most people...[/b]

This explains the noninduction technique better and allows more slack in practicing it. The original explanation was very strict, cause that is what worked for me. But apparently all you have to do is assume the "middle" attitude towards lucid dreaming and you would be successful. I've tried this new variant and it worked.

That is my problem too in using this technique. I succeeded in it one time, but the other times I have that underlying thought and expectation of expecting it to work, and it of course doesn't work because I also have the expectation that if I think about it and expect it to work it will not. Is there a bridge around this problem that makes this technique feasible for repeated use?[/b]

Yes, it is possible to use this technique successfully for some period of time. First you assume the attitude/mindset where you dont think about lucid dreaming, but dont forget about it there. The thought of LDing is there, at the edge of your perception/thinking process. It is hidden from the usual mind routines because you are not thinking of it. Since you are apparently NOT thinking about lucid dreaming, there's NO mental blocks that would prevent you from LDing.

Next you go to sleep with this mindset. Try to recall this mindset every time you wake up in the middle of the night. Dont get concerned if you have slept for 6 hours and didnt have a LD yet. This technique is not time dependent. One of the dreams is very likely to be lucid. The amount of effort required to execute this technique is minimal, borderline none if you get the hang of it.

Once you become successful(dont give up after one night of nothing) , record the dream, notice how lucidity seems to appear in your dream out of nowhere. Just as if it slowly seeps in your dream and you dont notice it until you are fully lucid.

Next is the most important step - once you achieve success, dont dwell on it. Dont plan out your next dream in great detail. Realize that in the long term you would have all the LDs you want if you continue to calmly practice the technique.



There are some obstacles on the way to lucidity using this method. For example you are laying in bed trying to keep the thought of LDing "in the middle" between not thinking about it and not forgetting about it. And suddenly some part of your mind may just start screaming "lucid dreaming!" or you may start to contemplate about your next LD, when it would come, etc. Sometimes this would ruin the whole night for the technique. But if you remain calm and just push the thought aside/ignore it you are still very likely to be successful.



PS. One interesting thing that I would like to explain in more detail is "no mental blocks part" - today I became lucid using the NonInduction technique and successfully accomplished an experiment that I was trying to perform since 2004... Every time before that I experienced dry spells and loss of recall.

PPS. Another interesting thing is that I heard voices in a dream saying variants of either "wake up" or "it's time to go to work" when I was practicing this technique. Today I've heard this kind of voices again... Maybe they signify the technique working properly...

Sorry for necroposting after 3 years!

I found this article on thought suppression: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_suppression

Apparently after trying to consciously suppress thoughts for a period of time, there's a natural "rebound" of the same thoughts. If applied to lucid dreaming before bedtime, there may be a rebound of thoughts while asleep!

Just thought this may be useful

Woah, you just described exactly what has been happening to me. I'll be sure to give this technique a try.