• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 9 of 9
    1. #1
      Ev
      Ev is offline
      Member Ev's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2003
      Location
      Earth
      Posts
      2,381
      Likes
      145
      This is a thought that was hatching in my mind for quite a while and finally I got an idea that I can clearly explain. Sorry, this is a bit long, but I think this would be beneficial to many LDers.

      The idea is about expectations and mental stress. It is also closely related to the Non Induction technique that I posted before.

      First of all imagine a caveman that is laying in some bushes trying to hunt some animal. He lays there immobile, but very alert and aware, he expects the delicious animal, thinks of how he will brag about the kill in front of his tribe, etc. His body while may appear relaxed is actually ready to spring up and strike an animal that might pass by at any second. There's a lot of adrenaline that would be instantly released the second that animal comes in sight. Think of this as "hunting instinct". Since there's little hunting involved in the present day life, I call this "the caveman syndrome".


      Now let's imagine a lucid dreamer - he came up or looked up an awesome technique. He's willing to try it. So he's laying in bed, thinking how he will use that technique, how he will have the most amazing lucid dream and what he is going to do in it, how he's gonna post his success story on this forum, etc etc etc. While he's trying to ignore the outside world and relax his attention is focused inside - on his body and mind. Especially with WILD like induction techniques there is tendency to look for signs of success. For nonWILD techniques there's tendency to worry about "Did I do enough?" kind of questions.
      Just like hunting, there are expectations, awareness, and lots of thinking involved. It seems to me like this kind of actions combined with lack of motion may induce the "hunting instinct" kind of behavior in the body - instead of going to sleep it switches to hunting mode, except in this case the dreamer is hunting a LD. Unfortunately you cant get a LD while being awake so the two conditions will never meet -the hunt will rarely end up in a LD, the body will stay in the hunting mode until the dreamer either gives up entirely and just goes to sleep (resulting in very poor vividness and poor recall) or will gradually fall asleep (takes lots of time and causes lots of frustration). IMO this causes lots of stress on your body and may account for the majority of failed LD induction attempts.
      The "hunting mode" or the "caveman syndrome" may also account for the case of LD induction methods that fail to induce lucidity again - lets say you induced a LD with something posted it on the board but the next night you failed and the night after that you failed. Then after a couple weeks you succeeded. This could be caused by you actively expecting and anticipating success or examining and trying to find causes of your failure, therefore denying you sleep and switching you to the "hunting mode"


      A while back I've posted a technique that I called "NonInduction"
      http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=36064
      - as you go to sleep you completely let go of your thoughts and let whatever techniques you were working on do their job. Back then I did not quite understand why this worked (worked not just for me but for many people), but apparently the technique may eliminate the conflict between sleeping and the "hunting mode" and allow a LDer to get better quality of sleep and much higher success at lucid dreaming. The passive awareness that the technique promotes may be the key to successful lucid dreaming.


      In all my experiences the Non Induction technique worked wonderfully for a few days in a row and then failed unexpectedly. I knew exactly the reason why it failed but I couldnt expain it very clearly. Pretty much after a few days of spectacular successes I started to think about lucid dreaming after going to bed, I started to anticipate the lucid dream, started to plan my actions, etc. Therefore switching to "hunting mode", preventing me from falling asleep. Even after falling asleep each time I woke up I would again start to anticipate the lucid dream ("I will have a lucid dream this time I fall asleep and I will do this and this and that..."), once again switching to the "hunting mode".
      Just understanding the process may help a lot (kinda like WILD is much easier when you know what to expect). Removing the influence of the "hunting mode" from your lucid dreaming induction attempts will most likely cause you to have more success at whatever technique you are trying.


      Now think about it for a while and see if this makes sense. I would love to hear feedback. It would also be nice if people who succeeded at the Non Induction technique try this improved version and see if they can maintain the lucid streak for more nights in a row than before.

    2. #2
      Member
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Posts
      49
      Likes
      0
      I've only been LDing for two weeks and have seemed to get better results than anyone posting around here - three LD's in the 1.5 weeks i've been trying to get lucid (the other half a week i spent just working on recall) and fairly vivid ones too with a fair bit of control (flying was very easy and is now actually boring). I think this is because I'm by nature an extremely calm person most of the time, regardless of the situation I'm in (I think I learnt subconsciously, when I got bullied as a kid, that I was more likely to escape or alter my situation if I stayed calm and in control of myself), which fits with your theory.
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

    3. #3
      Godzilla
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Gender
      Location
      London, England
      Posts
      308
      Likes
      0
      Ev, you are a genius!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!
      That is exactly what I needed. The theory you describe was starting to form in my mind last night as I stopped trying to WILD after many stressful failed attempts. I just wanted to go to sleep like normal and take a break from LDing. I found that I actually went through some of the early stages of a WILD without trying and in the end had a great night of sleep with some vivid magical dreams.
      You = Genius!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!&#33 ;!!!!!!!!!

    4. #4
      Mentor ZenVortex's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Posts
      206
      Likes
      2
      Ev, you are a moron!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!&# 33;
      Seriously, you make some good points. However, thinking about something as you fall asleep can lead to an incubated dream, so maybe its a good idea to think about a target (VILD) or lucid dreaming in general -- but without the hunting/expectation mode.

    5. #5
      Godzilla
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Gender
      Location
      London, England
      Posts
      308
      Likes
      0
      I find that thinking in any great detail about anything will put me right off sleep and LDing so I really think Ev have a point here.

    6. #6
      Mentor ZenVortex's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Posts
      206
      Likes
      2
      Some WILDers say that staying mentally focused is the key to WILDing. Keep the mind active as you let the body fall asleep. Some sort of creative thinking, such as dream incubation. Good luck.

    7. #7
      Member really's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Gender
      Posts
      2,676
      Likes
      56
      I don't know what to say. I agree with Tom_Peace and ZenVortex at the same time! Maybe it's a good idea and maybe not. What if you lose your long term ability to have a ld altogether?

      And if you don't mind Ev, can you please explain the 'hunting mode' in a different way?

    8. #8
      Explorer Achievements:
      1 year registered 5000 Hall Points Made Friends on DV Veteran First Class Referrer Silver
      BillyBob's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      Gender
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      830
      Likes
      288
      Ev's right

      I've known this for awhile, though I never really been able to put it into context like you just did

      In WILDing if your thinking about what your going to do when you get into the dream,
      or about when the WILD will be over, or even if your watching for tell tell signs of whether your WILDing right, you simply can't have a successful WILD.

      So basicly very nice. You may have just put into words the mechanism that makes so many people fail WILDs miserably.
      .

    9. #9
      Amateur WILDer
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Posts
      978
      Likes
      12
      Good points, except I always go to sleep thinking about something. Fantasy, memory, or something related to life.

      It's just weather or not you let your mind take over.

      Like me, I'll go to sleep initially thinking about something, and 10-15 minutes what I initially was thinking it not there anymore, instead my mind is throwing random things around on it's own - which is usually the deep and more vivid HI.

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •